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Industrial hemp high in CBD - why not used for medical CBD strains?
- Thread starter OldSSSCGuy
- Start date
jpt again
Member
I met someone @GP that did mix hemp into his RSO and tested it; then cured his stage IV prostate cancer, with it. Unfortunately I, on the other hand, forgot which one, it was. 3 men with the same diagnosis within months--all used different methods and are doing well, no progression and back to their normal lives, again.
The next generation of Medicated seeds will have a little more Hemp, I suppose. However, I'd prefer keeping them separated in seeds and grows. IDK if crossing them would eventually melt the thc in pot down to 'unwanted.'
I prefer the THC during the day and sure love my medications!
jptI have a friend in Colorado that is growing 40 acres of industrial hemp and he tell me that the CBD comes from the flower that that he has had it tested with high CBD content. I am writing him now to find out what percentage. Once I find out, I will post back here.
Some of these high cbd strains DO look like hemp, lol
I got some email from a company doing cbd from hemp in an e liquid..naw I got to have some thc man..yeehaw..theres no cbd laws I guess ??..back to getting ditchweed for some folks....
All hemp is not created equal:
Slovenian hemp ordered through Amazon. 40 grams for $36. Organic. They sell it as tea. The buds are pretty nice looking, all female, fully seeded. Unfortunately it does not work to suppress my seizures. When I did an ethanol extract the yield was tiny and the effect non-existent.
By contrast, Finola hemp works great. The yield is good and seizure control is excellent.
Slovenian hemp ordered through Amazon. 40 grams for $36. Organic. They sell it as tea. The buds are pretty nice looking, all female, fully seeded. Unfortunately it does not work to suppress my seizures. When I did an ethanol extract the yield was tiny and the effect non-existent.
By contrast, Finola hemp works great. The yield is good and seizure control is excellent.
And still, Finola is supposed to contain a rather low amount of cannabinoids; IIRC around 1% and at best 2-3% (obviously mostly CBD).
Maybe it's because it's seeded and has been processed in a way that a good part of the trichome heads fell off or you really got unlucky and came across one of those zero THC varieties which, due a defective cannabinoid synthesis, are also devoid in all other cannabinoids and for reason unknown very low in essential oil too...
Even if your experience so far was disappointing, you should grow out a few of these (or I'll do it for you); maybe you get better results or at least you (or the community) can figure out what it might be: p. ex. the zero THC varieties have crippled trichomes and aren't sticky at all and CBG predominant varieties show milky trichomes from the beginning (but the latter varieties are very rare).
I attached two pics copied from:
E. P. M. de Meijer, K. M. Hammond, and A. Sutton, The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. (IV): cannabinoid-free plants, Euphytica (2009) 168:95–112.
Picture 1 is from a cannabinoid-free plant (USO-31 hybrid) and picture 2 of a CBG predominant one (selection/hybrid of an Italian land race?).
Maybe it's because it's seeded and has been processed in a way that a good part of the trichome heads fell off or you really got unlucky and came across one of those zero THC varieties which, due a defective cannabinoid synthesis, are also devoid in all other cannabinoids and for reason unknown very low in essential oil too...
Even if your experience so far was disappointing, you should grow out a few of these (or I'll do it for you); maybe you get better results or at least you (or the community) can figure out what it might be: p. ex. the zero THC varieties have crippled trichomes and aren't sticky at all and CBG predominant varieties show milky trichomes from the beginning (but the latter varieties are very rare).
I attached two pics copied from:
E. P. M. de Meijer, K. M. Hammond, and A. Sutton, The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. (IV): cannabinoid-free plants, Euphytica (2009) 168:95–112.
Picture 1 is from a cannabinoid-free plant (USO-31 hybrid) and picture 2 of a CBG predominant one (selection/hybrid of an Italian land race?).
Attachments
Yeah, I collected seeds. Only about about a quarter of them are mature though. They must have harvested early. Still plenty to play around with. It will have to wait though as I have no room right now to sprout more plants. Maybe outside come spring.
The buds seem to have something resembling trichomes. A little closer look:
The buds seem to have something resembling trichomes. A little closer look:
Doesn't look too bad...
B
BadPenny
Rudaralis also has low THC and high CBD. just to a casual observer, a rudi crossed to a hemp plant seems like the best coupling on paper anyway. I also am one that gets no relief from chronic pain from smoking any of the so called high cbd strains the marketers are trying to get you to buy, I suspect the oil is a better vehicle for absorption for some reason in your body, again, JMHE. Also, those saying the hemp oil is illegal, its legal in all 50 because of no THC, I also wonder why many more don't try it. I've heard the marketers complain about everything from Chinese hemp to the industrial hemp process, which apparenlty mimics the cotton gin process, aka basically smash the whole plant and glean the juice from it. I always thought Rick Simpson said whole plant, not just flowers. I suspect the oil from flowers theory is from the same folks selling high cbd strain cuts or seeds. Again, JMHO. Im also readin info saying that .3% threshold used or mentioned, is not necessarily from a medical standpoint, something about it being a legal thing, not sure on understanding it all yet.
Stdane
Active member
Hard to breed.....
Hard to breed.....
I dunno where you get these high numbers in CDB in industrial hemp.One of my friends old man is a farmer with license to grow 14 acres of hemp and as he said the first year government people showed up all trough the grow to test and check for irregularities. When tested the thc was between 1000 -3000ppm or 0.1 - 0.3% thc and 2500-7000ppm or 0.2 - 0.7% cbd, maybe there are hemp strains with more cbd,but we're talking about 100.000 - 150.000ppm or 10 - 15% cbd and this you cant obtain by crossing hemps with auto's or vice versa. No, if we are gonna get up where it matters for the sick we'll have to find cannabis strains with naturally high percentages of cbd and breed for that trait.
I saw in Sanjay Gupta's Weed a little girl no more than 3 yrs old with aggressive epilepsia with 100 seizures a day getting a medicine in Colorado with 17.61% cbd,and became virtually seizure free, but when she arrived back in New Jersey where they lived,they couldn't get any cbd-oil,but just pot, the parents had to made into oil themselves with only 5.5% cbd,almost needless to say that this relative low cbd couldn't stop her seizures and they were forced to move to Colorado, where they could be fairly sure of a steady supply of high percentages cbd and its so heart warming to see this little girl slowly getting a life without pain.
Ok Another thing if you're gonna breed for a higher cbd,how do you go about it without your own gaschromotograph-device,I can just see it for me, hmm this plant is really weak in potency so it must be good in the cbd-department, nah I'll guess it would be kind of a long shot go about it this way lol!
Hard to breed.....
I dunno where you get these high numbers in CDB in industrial hemp.One of my friends old man is a farmer with license to grow 14 acres of hemp and as he said the first year government people showed up all trough the grow to test and check for irregularities. When tested the thc was between 1000 -3000ppm or 0.1 - 0.3% thc and 2500-7000ppm or 0.2 - 0.7% cbd, maybe there are hemp strains with more cbd,but we're talking about 100.000 - 150.000ppm or 10 - 15% cbd and this you cant obtain by crossing hemps with auto's or vice versa. No, if we are gonna get up where it matters for the sick we'll have to find cannabis strains with naturally high percentages of cbd and breed for that trait.
I saw in Sanjay Gupta's Weed a little girl no more than 3 yrs old with aggressive epilepsia with 100 seizures a day getting a medicine in Colorado with 17.61% cbd,and became virtually seizure free, but when she arrived back in New Jersey where they lived,they couldn't get any cbd-oil,but just pot, the parents had to made into oil themselves with only 5.5% cbd,almost needless to say that this relative low cbd couldn't stop her seizures and they were forced to move to Colorado, where they could be fairly sure of a steady supply of high percentages cbd and its so heart warming to see this little girl slowly getting a life without pain.
Ok Another thing if you're gonna breed for a higher cbd,how do you go about it without your own gaschromotograph-device,I can just see it for me, hmm this plant is really weak in potency so it must be good in the cbd-department, nah I'll guess it would be kind of a long shot go about it this way lol!
@BadPenny:
'Ruderalis' is just hemp gone wild
.
@Stdane:
It's simple, THC tests for regulatory purposes use IIRC the upper third of field grown plants (Dr. Callaway @ Finola.fi explains it in detail in one of the PDFs you can download from his page) whereas 'cannabis labs' test indoor grown and manicured sinsemilla flower clusters .
Furthermore, Finola for example has to be tested in mid flower whereas 'buds' are harvested 'after they fatten up'.
This explains how the same plant can have 0.5% or 5% CBD. Certainly, such a plant won't give 15% CBD (which seems like a single trait but in fact involves a whole bunch of genes).
Many 'autos' are hybrids with hemp; because a single cross doesn't do the trick, as you pointed out, a lot of back-crossing to the high cannabinoid drug type is needed. In this regard, breeding new high-% CBD strains is easier than creating a high THC auto because for the former, one may also use CBD chemotypes of drug type cannabis instead of hemp (you said that too, I know). But who says that it's CBD and only CBD that works? Maybe Gupta, but he's only a brain surgeon, not a pharmacologist or the like.
There are more things than GC out there .
In most European countries, legally growing CBD-rich hemp is a problem because of the THC limit. The CBDA-synthase has the unfortunate habit of giving rise to 5-10% THC with regard to CBD. Any high CBD strain is therefore doomed by nature to fail that stupid low THC law. Either go to a country with free drug type cannabis allowed or Switzerland which allows 1% THC and in other words 10-20% CBD (though getting a licence is harder than climbing across their Alps).
'Ruderalis' is just hemp gone wild
.@Stdane:
It's simple, THC tests for regulatory purposes use IIRC the upper third of field grown plants (Dr. Callaway @ Finola.fi explains it in detail in one of the PDFs you can download from his page) whereas 'cannabis labs' test indoor grown and manicured sinsemilla flower clusters
.Furthermore, Finola for example has to be tested in mid flower whereas 'buds' are harvested 'after they fatten up'.
This explains how the same plant can have 0.5% or 5% CBD. Certainly, such a plant won't give 15% CBD (which seems like a single trait but in fact involves a whole bunch of genes).
Many 'autos' are hybrids with hemp; because a single cross doesn't do the trick, as you pointed out, a lot of back-crossing to the high cannabinoid drug type is needed. In this regard, breeding new high-% CBD strains is easier than creating a high THC auto because for the former, one may also use CBD chemotypes of drug type cannabis instead of hemp (you said that too, I know). But who says that it's CBD and only CBD that works? Maybe Gupta, but he's only a brain surgeon, not a pharmacologist or the like.
There are more things than GC out there
.In most European countries, legally growing CBD-rich hemp is a problem because of the THC limit. The CBDA-synthase has the unfortunate habit of giving rise to 5-10% THC with regard to CBD. Any high CBD strain is therefore doomed by nature to fail that stupid low THC law. Either go to a country with free drug type cannabis allowed or Switzerland which allows 1% THC and in other words 10-20% CBD (though getting a licence is harder than climbing across their Alps).
B
BadPenny
just a point to ponder, per the lil gal in CO, she is supposedly having seizures again. And is there really deposits to be paid for the waiting list per the Stanleys, plus the dosage fee? Is it really as high as $1K? It also bothers me there is more likes on the Stanley Bros fb page than Charlottes, I would maybe figure the compassion would run longer than the bucks...?!
If her seizures have come back, I wonder if Charlotte ever tried the legal hemp oil?
If her seizures have come back, I wonder if Charlotte ever tried the legal hemp oil?
You are right about the testing, Stdane. To this point I have been guessing. Hopefully that will change by the end of this week. Counting the days.
OO knows the genetics and I go by what works for me. I have a strong feeling that there is a pretty wide range of CBD that will work, at least in the case of epileptic seizures. My seizure types and incidence are no where near as bad as those kids you see on the videos so, logically, a lower dose CBD could easily benefit me. Also there is the issue of concentration. Sure wish I could test that.
Anyway, still a lot to learn but I'm thinking a good F1 cross between a stable hemp variety and a stable high THC variety is best for quick results. Keep the stable seeds going and toss out any F1 seeds that show up.
OO knows the genetics and I go by what works for me. I have a strong feeling that there is a pretty wide range of CBD that will work, at least in the case of epileptic seizures. My seizure types and incidence are no where near as bad as those kids you see on the videos so, logically, a lower dose CBD could easily benefit me. Also there is the issue of concentration. Sure wish I could test that.
Anyway, still a lot to learn but I'm thinking a good F1 cross between a stable hemp variety and a stable high THC variety is best for quick results. Keep the stable seeds going and toss out any F1 seeds that show up.
B
BadPenny
Do you test for G1, G2, B1 and B2? I thought 360 was the only certified one so far? Good on you if you got certified, that means a lot.
hedgeraider
Member
Industrial hemp has awesome effects. I don't know if it's CBD. It could be something else. One of the heaviest weeds i had was in school once, i had a blowback of zero-zero from Amserdarm, just the cheapest weed that a friend brought back, two tokes of it, and i was so doped up i was like horse tranquilizer... As far as i know, CBD does that if you get high from it.
I have some industrial hemp, I can get kindof stoned from pure joints of it, it's very energising physically, and not at all spaced mentally, and it isn't sedating like couchlock and like i imagine pure CBD should be doing.
Anyways... 1 pure joint of that industrial hemp, i got a kilo and loooads of seeds. is the same as a couple of normal drags from a not skunk joint, and it's different, highly recommended...
For example, say that you have work the next day and you don't want THC for that evening, and your head is restless and active. i have an small hemp joint, and i'm asleep in 1/2 a hour. I have one in the morning i tidy all the house up in 1 hour of energy. it's a weird one.
I have some industrial hemp, I can get kindof stoned from pure joints of it, it's very energising physically, and not at all spaced mentally, and it isn't sedating like couchlock and like i imagine pure CBD should be doing.
Anyways... 1 pure joint of that industrial hemp, i got a kilo
and loooads of seeds. is the same as a couple of normal drags from a not skunk joint, and it's different, highly recommended...For example, say that you have work the next day and you don't want THC for that evening, and your head is restless and active. i have an small hemp joint, and i'm asleep in 1/2 a hour. I have one in the morning i tidy all the house up in 1 hour of energy. it's a weird one.
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socioecologist
Member
Update for OO (though I assume you have probably already read it): have you seen the Onofri et al. article released in August? If not, the title was "Sequence heterogeneity of cannabidiolic- and tetrahydrocannabinolic acid-synthase in Cannabis sativa L. and its relationship with chemical phenotype". When crossing "drug" cultivars (Bt / Bt) with hemp (Bd / Bd), the total THC concentration present in selected Bd / Bd F2 generations and beyond are largely determined by the specific Bd allele (the authors found 12 different versions in their sample). Pretty rad paper, really. There was a lot more going on under the hood than the previous models suggested (a lot of pseudogenes conserved), but the chemotype inheritance patterns remain predictable.
It's all about the terpenes! A truly cool part about hemp is the amount of genetic diversity still preserved in today's lines; we're sifting through several hundred thousand seeds this year in search of unique terpene profiles.
