Jamaican, dub stylee

Alright, got out of the shorty tent so now I can grow these out with out too much bondage. Finally get a shot at the Jamiacan Double Jam. Been waiting a long time to grow out some proper Gyanja!
Had a small hick up. I planted on Aug 9th and several days later when everything was coming up and looking good a damn mouse got in the tent and dug up half of the seedlings. I live in a farmhouse so it happens once in awhile but damn, they always go for the best ones.

No problems, put on some Reggae, chilled out and re planted on the 16th. Nothing but good vibes going on now. 19 of 20 are up and looking good. Everything is Iree!

I have two sources of seeds. I missed out on all the good Jamaican offers before like the Blue Mountain and JGL's Double Jam so I ordered 4 packs of the Jamaican Spirit. I wanted plenty to mess around with and see what the line has to offer. To my surprise the was an extra envelope marked "Double" which I have to assume was leftovers of JGL's original offering of the Double Jam. Thank you very much seedsman.

So here is the thing. I know Charlie Garcia made a comment that the JBM had gotten "fatter" from when he first grew it. The 3 "Double" plants look to have fatter leaves than what I would expect. I know that it is supposed to start out fat and get thinner so time will tell. I really hope that there wasnt a mix up at the seed co.

Hoping that Mustafunk or Roms can chime in on this one. The top row is the JS and the three on bottom are the "Double"

Seeing some nice narrow leaves on a few. Dare I say Lambsbread Phenos?

Found some of Jah Green Labels photos of the Blue Mountain 1985. Wow, they really did have some fat leaves. Indicas were already on the Island by then so ?

compare that to what I saw at 9 mile and Fern Gulley in the early 80's

Time for the weekly Monday update. Still not much to see but they are progressing nicely. The earliest plants to emerge are now at 6 nodes at right around two weeks. I have now planted all 4 packs in the hopes that I can find enough of the Lambsbread phenos to make a concentrated effort in that direction.



Above photo is Blue Mountain leaners on the left and Lambsbread leaners on the right.



coming out of the seedling stage and starting to stretch

I'll end todays update with some Positive Vibes. Some Art work from my friend Jah Calo in Belmont Bluefields. Stop by and visit with him if you make it down there. His place is called Studio Black and about a block down is Peter Tosh's place. Stop by and pay your Respects

Rembetis said:

So here is the thing. I know Charlie Garcia made a comment that the JBM had gotten "fatter" from when he first grew it. The 3 "Double" plants look to have fatter leaves than what I would expect. I know that it is supposed to start out fat and get thinner so time will tell. I really hope that there wasnt a mix up at the seed co.

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The JBM 85 was collected by Siete, one of the original founders of CBG and also author of the Spanish Cannabis Encyclopedia . He collected personally those seeds during a trip and also provided most other foundational genetics for CBG like Pakistan Chitral, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Meao Thai, Capricho (Colombian/Mexican) and so on.

He said there were two main expresions on those Jamaicans, one very wild and longer, another with more potency, production and broader leaves, quicker too. They obvioulsy decided to work with the most comercial expression for the seed company.

I've seen both wild looking JBMs and others, with a squat and compact appereance that almost looked like NLD/BLD hybrids and finished around 60 days:



Best.

Mustafunk said:

They obviously decided to work with the most commercial expression for the seed company.


Best.

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what a pity!

Mustafunk said:

I've seen both wild looking JBMs and others, with a squat and compact appereance that almost looked like NLD/BLD hybrids and finished around 60 days:

View Image

Best.

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Hello Mustafunk. Was hoping you would join in on this thread.

About the 60 day finishers: The fat leaf plants and the photo from JGL was bothering me so I went back thru the Blue Mountain thread. Not long after JGL started his grow in the thread it was discovered that people were actually talking about 4 different Blue Mountains with 3 being Skunk crosses and the one Charlie had was assumed to be pure. I can see where people could very easily be confused and it would sure explain 60 day finishers in a Jamaican line.

I am not sure where JGL got his seeds or cuts but I have to wonder if he mistakenly got ahold of the Skunk version. The "Double " plants I was growing got very fat and matched up with his photo but not knowing for sure what they are they were pulled. I am doing a seed run so no need to keep them any longer.

I haven't seen any of the fat leaves in the Double Jam thread so maybe those particular plants weren't used when he created the Double Jam.
You have much more experience with the line so I am curious to hear what you think and also the difference between the pheno's.

Another question regarding phenos, has there been any mention of electric or trippy effects found in this line or the Lambsbread?
I hear talk about Lambsbread being spiritual and special because it comes from the Rasta's but what does that really mean? It seems like in the Lambsbread thread that most people lean towards the idea that it should be meditative and introspective. My experience in Jamaica in the early 80's was the electric and trippy one with pulses (vibrations?) running thru the body.

The Rastas like to talk about Meditation and Reasoning which at times can be the same thing and there is a time and place for that. Sitting around with friends enjoying nature and quiet conversation. But if once a week you were wanting to reach a higher plane and plug into some cosmic energy and commune with God wouldnt you want to be putting something stronger in the Chalice?

The guys in 9 mile were all Marley family. It doesnt get more Rasta than that. The hand rubbed "Gum" as they call it that they sent with us was trippy and so was the weed we scored in Fern Gulley. Same type plants both places. The guys in Fern Gulley were Rasta too.

Last several trips the Rastas I've talked with are smoking and growing imported genetics and didnt seem to care about what we call Lambsbread or the "old" lines so maybe they are moving towards a more Indica influenced feeling. They think its funny that I care about the old lines.

Anyway, thought I would throw that out there for the sake of conversation

Its funny how quickly things can change in a grow room. One of the recent seedlings to pop is showing the fat leaf and a couple more that are now above ground are also looking fat.



Same one with a more hybrid, Blue Mountain looking plant



and on the other end an extreme looking Lambsbread pheno seedling



Guess that answers the question about which plants JGL used as parents

Rembetis said:

Another question regarding phenos, has there been any mention of electric or trippy effects found in this line or the Lambsbread?
I hear talk about Lambsbread being spiritual and special because it comes from the Rasta's but what does that really mean? It seems like in the Lambsbread thread that most people lean towards the idea that it should be meditative and introspective. My experience in Jamaica in the early 80's was the electric and trippy one with pulses (vibrations?) running thru the body.

The Rastas like to talk about Meditation and Reasoning which at times can be the same thing and there is a time and place for that. Sitting around with friends enjoying nature and quiet conversation. But if once a week you were wanting to reach a higher plane and plug into some cosmic energy and commune with God wouldnt you want to be putting something stronger in the Chalice?

The guys in 9 mile were all Marley family. It doesnt get more Rasta than that. The hand rubbed "Gum" as they call it that they sent with us was trippy and so was the weed we scored in Fern Gulley. Same type plants both places. The guys in Fern Gulley were Rasta too.

Last several trips the Rastas I've talked with are smoking and growing imported genetics and didnt seem to care about what we call Lambsbread or the "old" lines so maybe they are moving towards a more Indica influenced feeling. They think its funny that I care about the old lines.

Anyway, thought I would throw that out there for the sake of conversation

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Hiya Rembetis the high your describing sounds like a good old school Thai now here is something interesting i read last week apparently Bob Marley's Favored smoke was Thai.

Could it be the old Lambsbread was Thai.

Hi @Hempy,I bet ole Bob had access to anything he wanted once he got famous.

There is a story about Thai having come into the Negril area a long time ago. There is also a local strain known as Thyme which sounds a lot like Thai to me. I have been in contact with my buddies down there and when I asked about that the answer was " I believe that is so". It was a local strain so dont know if it went around the island.

The garden I was shown at 9 mile was not presented as anything special. It was the Ganja they had always grown. The guys at Fern Gulley were poor and growing the same stuff so even if Bob had access to other strains I dont know that they did. Its also the same stuff you see in the old photos of the time so I believe that what I saw was indeed the old Jamaican.

Also, others have chimed in on various threads that had similar experiences in Jamaica. As I mentioned previously I never thought of Jamaican as mellow. The old Jamaican was a much longer flowering strain that has been tamed down somewhat now. I think that has something to do with trippy highs.

Its interesting to contemplate but in the end we can never know. The Indian connection makes the most sense to me so maybe thats where it came from.

I think a good Indian sativa rolled in a joint would give as good an affect as a good Thai rolled in a joint so makes seance.

I only saw imported Jamaican here once odd looking flowers they had grown in a twisted way like a cork screw the smell was strong to.

I hope you find some nice plants in the grow mate will be following with interests.

Interesting that you mention the flowers because I've seen mentioned in various threads that its the wispy old style flowers that seem to do the trick. Ones that people now a days would discount based on looks.
For all the progress in fattening up buds for yield it would seem that something got left behind.

I haven't seen a Thai plant in 35 years and haven't seen any Indian plants. Something I've noticed on both parents of this line is the heavy serrations. If I remember correctly the old Jamaican did not have prominent serrations. Is the Thai or Indian like that or is that a characteristic of Tropical Sativas in general?

Looks like I need to dig into some Thai and Indian threads just for curiosity's sake.

Update: I took a quick look at Thai, Kerala and Columbians in various threads. The Thai brought back memories and it looks like what I remember growing in the 80's but its not what Jamaican looks like. The overall structure of the larger plants isn't right. Same for the Columbians. The closest I would say is the Kerala although its not quite the same and I wouldnt expect it to be after 150 years.

The Jamaican has a unique look to it. I noticed that with these other strains that early on the leaves are somewhat fatter and then thin out over time. The Jamaican is very skinny from day one as you can see in my old photos.

Rembetis, I am interested in your experience with this strain
You are growing jamaican spirit.
From what I have understood, in the double jam thread the posts under the name 2st4this is Magic herbs
I grew 2 plants last summer and they are the biggest dissapointment of all the plants I grew so far. Both plants were very different looking but produced same kind of odorless, highless fluffy looking buds.Different phenos but same genotype, and like escarole, a very beautiful lettuce you can use in your curry or in your salad. Very beautiful plant with no high at all
I will make dry sift of what I have curing for over 6 months and check if it might happen like with himalayan strains that buds have no high but the resin/charas hits beautifully

I am afraid what Magic Herbs did is to kill the spirit of the strain. JGL had left quite a few clear indications about Double Jam which are not happening in this strain. I wonder if this is the result of breeding with stressed tortured males and females. Because if this is the case, then the strain should be called Guantamo Spirit which is an american colony in an island nearby Jamaica

From the explanation of Master Mustafunk, I understand seeds were sourced around the millenium when hybridization all around the american continent was rampant . About the supposed years of strains I think it is done for commercial purposes. It would sell JBM 85 much better than calling it JBM 2000. In fact names today are just brand names.

You have colourful calling strains like the kids around here where I am calling their purple plants Punto Rojo when in fact they should be called Punto Violeta and have nothing to do with the original, so I would say these practice should be called yearful or numberful description

Both plants I had had a very slow vegetative growth and had wide leaves too. I put them on 11/13 with 30 and 25 cm high and they stretched x7 finnishing at a little bit over 2 meters high and 1,75 mts the second one

Both plants I grew showed purple buds on summer at temperatures of 28-30C average.
I hope it helps, these are pictures of one of the plants

Hello Funkyhorse.

Yes it is Jamaican Spirit but it was Jah Green Labels work so I was calling it Double Jam to give proper credit to the man that made it. I dont feel that 2st4this did enough work to claim it as his own at this point.

I was trying not to knock the guy but 2st4this had problems with both runs by his own admission which I think led to a lot of his hermie problems. He shouldnt have had so many from what I was told. I dont know if the guy had ever attempted Sativa like this before so maybe that was part of it.

Thanks for posting the photos. Its a shame they didnt work out. I know others have grown the strain and had good results so I will move forward and hope for the best. I do have some doubts though and I am not quite as enthused knowing that it isnt a pure Jamaican. I have to plan a year ahead for long grows like this and I was really wanting to try the CBG Punto Rojo. I have two packs in the freezer and I am starting to wonder if maybe I should have gone in that direction since it may be another year before I can try them.

As long as I can shut down by April I have time to start the Punto Rojo. If the hermie problems that 2st4ths had begin to show up I will pull the plug and move on.

So then you are in Columbia? What can you tell me about the Punto Rojo?

Found some of Jah Green Labels photos of the Blue Mountain 1985. Wow, they really did have some fat leaves. Indicas were already on the Island by then so ?

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My advice is to be patient, keep a journal and photo diary, and wait to see how things finish before making decisions about what's what, who's select, who's a breeder, and who to cull. I've seen it many times where strains that were very thin leaved and lanky grown outdoors turned Indica when moved inside. I've seen young plants with wide leaves go thin in flowering and vice versa. I've seen 100% Indica lines produce thin leaved descendants. I've had thin leaved plants produce Afghani type effects and vice versa. I try not to base my selections on leaf shape but I do it anyway, we all do.

Moving a wild landrace strain indoors inevitably the breeder is going to select for 'Indica' type traits. Eliminate the hermies, lanky, low yielding long flowering types. Doesn't always mean it's been hybridized and hopefully the breeder is also mindful of the effects which is what really matters. Having said all this Afghans have been in Jamaica a long time, at least since the 70s. You can't always trust 40 year old passed around stories by old stoners, if it looks like a pig and walks like a pig it's pork. Results are what matter, once you roll one up and puff you'll get your answers.

The true lambsbread is one of the most striking thin leaved plants I've seen, absolutely beautiful and it's a shame how rare it's become. Most cannabis growing is a commercial enterprise and most farmers are poor enough that consumer expectations make or break them. Can't blame them for trying to stay competitive in the marketplace but hopefully there's enough connoisseurs and pot snobs to keep the old variety relevant.

Hello therevverend,

when I posted JGLs photo of the fatter leaf plant my initial thinking was that JBM was a hybrid when collected on the island but as I mentioned after going thru the Blue Mountain thread that there are 3 other Blue Mountain lines which have skunk in them and I am fairly certain that a mix up occurred when collecting the lines for the Double Jam.

I completely agree with you about leaf shape and have had the same experiences with Afghani types and indoor versus outdoor. Its not an ideal way to decide what is what but at this point there arent many markers to help me sort thru the seedlings to isolate the Lambsbread phenos. There is one other marker which you can see in my crappy photo and that is the blue color of the plants. Everything I saw there had it and I saw it in JGL's Lambsbread grow photos and I do have a couple young plants that also have it.

Of course everything will be a mix so who knows where it will go. The smoke test at the end will be the decider

I am not into knocking on someone or trying to create controversy. It is just that truth is controversial and I certainly disagree with the ethics and morals going on in the cannabis world which makes it not very reliable
I grew this strain side by side with Coljam from JGL which is also becoming a controversial strain and shares the lambsbread in the genetics with Double jam and the result has been very different
It seems now USC and TSC are having their CG72 lines and they seem to be different. TSC did a repro of JGL seeds. And from what I am seeing in my grows from stuff bought through USC distributor together with this post from Instagram plus reports of a sneaky attitude towards genetics, it seems what Cristalin is doing a Coljam repro and naming it CG72
Cristalin words: no only pure landrace reproduction for this strain, we had col'jam .. but it's finished , thx
From this post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CDPD6xKBAjx/

When I bought it I didnt know it was Double jam, I was told by TSC, in fact I just used the phoenician method, I only start researching after I get the goods in my hands, I started growing 2 years ago in search of decent smoke which seems to be comercially unavailable at the western world, basically when I ask clubs about sativas they all tell me we dont grow that shit, grow it yourself. So here I am, becoming a no choice grower looking for decent sativas

And Double Jam seems to be a collaboration/cooperation of different Vibes Collective members. Kaiki has the Blue Mountain and the vibes Co the lambsbread and this strain seems to be a source of disagreement between the collective members.

There were 2 releases of CBG Punto Rojo and the reports from the spanish forum say they are two different things. The first one is a Kaiki work released around 2012 from stuff sourced around year 2000 which had to be cleaned a lot because of hybridization. The second release is different than the first. Reports say it has 70% hermies in the males, so to find good males you need to run numbers
This second release was pulled out of sales on same day together with Ghana and Jarilla de Sinaloa, so I suspect this Punto Rojo release is from Criposo as he said Ghana and Jarilla are his and there was probably a problem in the relationship between them

If you are going to germinate now and want it ready for april, you must be in the southern hemisphere. You can try light dep or make first half of flowering indoors and bring the plant to finnish outside by the end of february, it will become an outdoor bud if you induce it to flowering indoors. That would be the only way to finnish it by the end of april outdoors in the southern hemisphere. Or you can try growing it indoors. Viable Punto Rojo males seem to be very rare

I am in South America after 30 years of life in Asia and things have changed more than a little bit around here. Today Punto Rojo is a generic name for top notch colombian weed or for 3 toke of a needle ganja of the past and I see people here are mixing in their descriptions paraguayan 80's with colombian 80's. They were both top notch but different. Today growers and clubs around here all care for having the hyped fast american/european hybrids, they care for productivity and to get it ready as fast as possible and they dont care much for quality