Neverending Cmep-Ol issues

Been an owner of a cmep-ol for two years, never used it on an extraction though as it was depositing bearing grease into my butane stream since day 1. Finally got it rebuilt by bhogart and was told it should all be completely cleaned out and in working order. Turned it on just for a second and noticed a smell coming out of it. I was instructed to run a little clean solvent through it, which didnt help at all. So I decided to tear the thing back down. Discovered that all the piping inside the machine contains black deposit on the inside which can only be wiped out and will not rinse out. The smell is within the whole entire system as well. Got to noticing that one of the piston seals is slightly worn and has a knick in it while the other is perfect, other than being greyish from wear already from a minute of being on. which is very sad if they are new seals. Which is odd as this was the original issue. The first time I took it apart before I had it rebuilt there was a damaged piston seal, which had me believing that an excess of butane was getting into the crankcase. Back to now though, all i have done is run a little solvent through the machine and the crankcase is dirty. There is a small amount of black grease all around the crankcase, mostly on the bottom, and also the back bearing looks to have grease coming out of the seal on it, but the front one is 100% dry. To me this machine is either a lost cause, or bhogart did a sub-par job on it. Either that or nobody out there is actually running one without contamination. Nearly $5k into the pump now and ice/butane wasted on it. I need some serious help with this thing if anyone knows anything thay may help. Going to be calling bhogart more today. Yesterday two different people there told me they would call me back and nothing. Thank you all.

Also going to note there was some splatter around the crankcase, showing that its coming right off the back bearing most likely, since the front one is clean. Also, the bearings are 6908DU. No longer "RS".

Make sure that the crank case can vent. Positive pressure in the crank case can push grease from the bearings into your vapor stream. Drill a hole in it if BHOgart didn't.

Thanks, I definitely would like to have this done. I know it would be better to have threads tapped, but I have considered having someone with a drill press just put a hole in it.

Is there any way to clean the crankcase and bearings off without disassembling the bearings or pistons? Like with water/soap? or a solvent that wont harm anything? Or can I only use a dry rag on the bearings? Also does anyone know if there is another bearing at the back of the crankcase where it connects to the motor? Reason I ask is the little bearing at the front of the crankcase on the cover is also excessively greasy and I was wondering if this is normal?

Hot limonene works well then rinse with ethanol.

The DU bearing suffix is the same as RS. Different manufacturers use different nomenclature.

However, it should be ddu for two rubber seals... If it's due there is only a seal on one side.
http://training.bsc.com.au/Training/A9000/A9007/A9007-P05.htm

...That may be the issue. Someone needs a dopeslap if they installed bearings with only one seal.

Your best bet is to vent the crankcase, if you tap the hole with a npt tap you can install a fitting to plumb the outlet outside.

I think there is only a seal at the back of the crank where it connects to the motor.

RB

Rickys bong said:

The DU bearing suffix is the same as RS. Different manufacturers use different nomenclature.

However, it should be ddu for two rubber seals... If it's due there is only a seal on one side.
http://training.bsc.com.au/Training/A9000/A9007/A9007-P05.htm

...That may be the issue. Someone needs a dopeslap if they installed bearings with only one seal.

Your best bet is to vent the crankcase, if you tap the hole with a npt tap you can install a fitting to plumb the outlet outside.

I think there is only a seal at the back of the crank where it connects to the motor.

RB

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It is just 6908DU. That is what Bhogart installed in it, and the same bearings used by someone else who I spoke with about repairs. Definitely considering venting the crankcase at this point. It is getting hard to imagine this thing ever working otherwise. But I need to speak with Bhogart first, they need to get this thing usable for me or were gonna have issues. I was actually wondering if there was a seal at the back by the motor. There is a bearing on the front where the blue condenser fan is, so if there is one at each side thats good to know. Im sure those arent the issue though.

used to be simple as flushing sum gas through the inlet to clean thes out but now its harder with that new white "greese" lubricant they put on all the fittings, to realy get rid of it u need to pull apart pump & clean the connections & mabe everywher solvent wets. my buddy dint open his, he just ran some bottles of ISO in by pushing it thro w a aircompressor, then ran few lbs gas thro.
that "death" chemy smell sounds like the yellow/white residue smelled but honestly it does not make its way into the tank. the smell was still slightly comming out my friend pump after he cleaned it, but the smell lessens each run & with absolutely no trace of smell in the tank or his product.
as for "venting crank case" sounds too advance for any sort of modding my buddy wanted to do to his new pump so instead i recomend what ive herd others are doing is to run a pot or tube After the pump with some sort filration in it so if Any baring/motor oil gets out the seals it will get trapped in that tube after the pump.
thats crazy lame u had to spend so much extra on the pump hopefully it works out in end

koan1123 said:

used to be simple as flushing sum gas through the inlet to clean thes out but now its harder with that new white "greese" lubricant they put on all the fittings, to realy get rid of it u need to pull apart pump & clean the connections & mabe everywher solvent wets. my buddy dint open his, he just ran some bottles of ISO in by pushing it thro w a aircompressor, then ran few lbs gas thro.
that "death" chemy smell sounds like the yellow/white residue smelled but honestly it does not make its way into the tank. the smell was still slightly comming out my friend pump after he cleaned it, but the smell lessens each run & with absolutely no trace of smell in the tank or his product.
as for "venting crank case" sounds too advance for any sort of modding my buddy wanted to do to his new pump so instead i recomend what ive herd others are doing is to run a pot or tube After the pump with some sort filration in it so if Any baring/motor oil gets out the seals it will get trapped in that tube after the pump.
thats crazy lame u had to spend so much extra on the pump hopefully it works out in end

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I haven't encountered any white or yellowish substances at all inside this thing. I have one of the original preorder models. Stock, there was only dark colored grease inside. And when bhogart rebuilt it, they used some light grey grease on the pistons and in the crankcase. They say they use 4 grams of grease in the crankcase on rebuilds, seems excessive. My trs21 has killed it for two years now with no rebuilds and never any lubrication. Always just clean the seals and pistons with alcohol and put back together.

In my situation the black grease from the original bearings was definitely getting into my tank and into my collection pot. The toxic smell would punch you in the face on a dry run. I think a lot of the smell now is coming from the piping on the machine and the bearings. There is a lot of black inside the piping on the whole machine which can only be wiped out, so the whole heat exchanger on this thing is trashed I suppose, as I dont know how you would clean it out. But I want to ditch the heat exchanger anyways, as it doesnt get that cool, traps a lot of solvent at the end of a run, and it doesnt pull gas away from the crankcase as quick as it could without it. Ive heard they run smoother and quieter without the stock heat exchanger.

Bhogart is willing to do the work again and only charge for parts with a 1 month turnaround. But its hard to say I wont have the same issues still, and they told me the same. Their pump tech said the smell coming out of the pump was abnormal and that he hadn't heard of that before. Same guy also said that flushing liquid butane through it probably allowed the bearings to get washed in solvent and that is why my crankcase is already dirty after a fresh rebuild. He said they cant tolerate liquid solvent. Sounds possible, but so many people are recommending to flush it out first. Probably gonna just have bhogart rebuild again, then cut off the heat exchanger and see how it works. Honestly, its hard to know about these things or how to properly run them, as ignorance is bliss, and bhogart is saying no vacuum ever, and xtractor depot is saying it will only shorten life and that it is okay. Will recovering into a vacuum contribute to bearing grease loss or contamination? Also hard to know if people know what they are talking about, Bhogart told me to leave the valves closed on the pump at the beginning, and to just pump all the atmoshpere in it into my tank!!!!! I know how to correctly bleed the lines out, but them telling me that caught me off guard.

I don't understand why you guys won't accept RB's suggestion to vent the crankcase, have you mentioned it to Bhogart and Extract Depot?

SkyHighLer said:

I don't understand why you guys won't accept RB's suggestion to vent the crankcase, have you mentioned it to Bhogart and Extract Depot?

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Yes, Bhogart's pump tech told me they have not done the modification yet and that its not something they would be willing to do. Xtractor Depot said they have plans of doing it to one soon to test it out, dont know if they would do it or not as it isnt as practical for me to have them work on it.

Well after a year or more of successfully keeping the contamination out with filters and no vacuum, and rebuilds every 2 months it has no longer as easy, since the last rebuild Ive had nothing but problems and Im not sure what has changed, Bhogart is oblivious... repair guy did not seem to care too much about the grease he sloppily through over all the fittings, now I cant get this thing clean, Im taking it to Bhogart and having them rebuild it and will be venting crankcase right after, Bhogart even claims they have a filter that will stop the contamination but for 1000$ and from Bhogart I want to be sure, Has anyone tried the Bhogart LPG inline filter? They say it will filter to 5 micron

Pure777Extracts said:

Well after a year or more of successfully keeping the contamination out with filters and no vacuum, and rebuilds every 2 months it has no longer as easy, since the last rebuild Ive had nothing but problems and Im not sure what has changed, Bhogart is oblivious... repair guy did not seem to care too much about the grease he sloppily through over all the fittings, now I cant get this thing clean, Im taking it to Bhogart and having them rebuild it and will be venting crankcase right after, Bhogart even claims they have a filter that will stop the contamination but for 1000$ and from Bhogart I want to be sure, Has anyone tried the Bhogart LPG inline filter? They say it will filter to 5 micron

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Bhogart claims to use 4 grams of grease inside the crankcase on rebuilds. Seems like a shit load, especially since pumps like the TRS21 can run for two years with zero lubrication and zero issues with just regular cleaning of the pistons. One of the pistons on my CMEP-OL they rebuilt was completely devoured in a grey colored grease and the other piston had none on it. Also noticed a tiny bit of piston seal wear on the same piston, even though the pump had just been freshly rebuilt, I believe they damaged it on their own and just put it together anyways.

I am also curious as to whether the grease from these pumps can evaporate and make it into your recovery tank that way? Or does the grease have to be pushed out the end of the pump until it makes it's way there? I know it can make it's way in there fast. When the pump was new, I used it to distill a tank of butane, never pulling a vacuum on it, and there was already a bunch of bearing grease in the my recovery tank just running it once.

How would one check to see if bearing grease has contaminated their recovery tank?

Inject the butane into the collection pot and recover it as a vapor, but stay below 85F and don't recover below zero gauge. The elements heaver than C-4 should be deposited in the collection tank.

May I ask what happened to the Vaporhawg?

Simplemd369 said:

May I ask what happened to the Vaporhawg?

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Pharmgold, the company building them, closed their doors and has yet to sell the IP.

Gray Wolf said:

Inject the butane into the collection pot and recover it as a vapor, but stay below 85F and don't recover below zero gauge. The elements heaver than C-4 should be deposited in the collection tank.

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Awesome, thank you! Will try this. Full disclosure: I just got a refurbed cmep-ol and we've had some stability issues in our product since then, so the paranoia is rife.

No unusual smells coming out the high line.

So if I'm getting this, you're saying bearing grease can vaporize at sub 100 temps with a vacuum?

Follow up: what about neem oil, will that vaporize sub 100 degrees?

And for that matter, what about common trimming oils like vegetable oil?

atomicponderer said:

Awesome, thank you! Will try this. Full disclosure: I just got a refurbed cmep-ol and we've had some stability issues in our product since then, so the paranoia is rife.

No unusual smells coming out the high line.

So if I'm getting this, you're saying bearing grease can vaporize at sub 100 temps with a vacuum?

Follow up: what about neem oil, will that vaporize sub 100 degrees?

And for that matter, what about common trimming oils like vegetable oil?

Click to expand...

Yes, the boiling points fall under vacuum and they will come across.

Gray Wolf said:

Pharmgold, the company building them, closed their doors and has yet to sell the IP.

Click to expand...

Was Pharmgold your company? May I ask why did they close?