Coco pros, please help me step up my transplanting game

[FONT=&quot]Hello,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]After hundreds of hours of reading this forum and several attempts I still cannot seem to get the transplanting/pre-charging of coco right. The plants shoot up 3-4 weeks after transplant so I assume that I don't prepare the coco correct, they suffer from lockouts/deficiencies for a while and after the buffer is filled they recover.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Last time I actually used Canna so I have no excuse I know most people suffer from salt toxicities from fresh coco but I believe I "undercharged it". I always put the coir in a bin with holes on the bottom I check the run off of the solution I run through it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This last Canna had very good EC levels of 0.6 EC and I poured a balanced solution of Micro/bloom, Silica, Epson and Nitric acid. EC 1.2-1.3 with starting tap water EC of 0.4 (about 170-190 ppm carbonates, 60ppm Ca, 10ppm Mg). pH of 5.8-6. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I only ran enough to get the run off to 0.8-0.9 ... Quite stupid. The plants look pale and weak.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I also must say that after I moisten the coco I squeeze every bit of moisture I can and put it in 4-6l fabric pots trying not to pack it down too much. I also try to water slowly. VPD is relatively good although unstable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My questions:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. I am considering the idea that perhaps by just running the solution through the media I am not charging it well enough. Do you think a thorough soak for some time and then wringing it out and using it will be better?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. In this connection, and this might be a dumb question, but does the speed of watering influence the amount of cation exchange that takes place? In other words, does cation exchange need some time to occur or does it happen immediately as you are flushing the coir?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. I know bagged Canna is supposed to be buffered but is it worth increasing the Ca and Mg in the nutes for the initial prep just to be sure?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. How much do you tamp down the coco around the rootball when transplanting?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. I notice the pH of the solution stays very stable if the rez is covered but increases if it is not. Is it safe to assume that this means it will also gradually increase in the root zone or is it that the coir chemistry might influence it in all sorts of ways?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks for your time
[/FONT]

I feel your pain but you seem to be doing the right thing.
Cann coco is superior but still needs to be charged.
The main thing to do is upon transplant is do a heavy feed of e.c 900 with tap starting at 200e.c on the 500 scale. The important thing for me is the Cal-mag should be applied at 1ml per litre to stabilise the coco. Also if your running different light source upon repotting, stronger lights will require a much stronger feed from the get go.



Good luck man...

With coco its important to monitor the ec or ppm in the rootzone. Never let the runoff be more than 250 ppm above your nutrient solution going in. Sounds crazy but your runoff ppm will be higher than what you put in and will continue to rise if you dont monitor it. My tapwater is 170ppm, my total solution going in is 300 and my runoff ppm is average 420. I keep as close as I can to those figures the entire grow and get very good results. Are you using a coco specific nutrient?

Sounds like you may be watering too much and compacting the Coco.

I use canna and I do not pre charge whatsoever.
Just keep it as loose as possible, don't tamp it down.

Fill your pot loosely about halfway ( or whatever size to accommodate what you are transplanting from) stick the transplant in, then fill to just under the top with more Coco.
Water it in with whatever nutrient mix you feed your veg, until slight run off.
Do not water again until the container is light/slightly drying.

You Should be watering every other day for the first week or so, or whenever the Coco is close to dry.

This keeps it aerated and fluffy while the roots go searching for water.

After 7-10 days you should be needing to water daily.

Don't water quickly, to where you see it pooling in top, this compacts the Coco and makes it harder for the roots to thrive.

That's pretty much it, sometimes I like to dust the rootball with great white myco before transplant as well.

Don't tamp, water in until runoff the first water, and have wet/dry cycles the first week or so, and you should be golden.

@[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Green81[/FONT]
I believe you are spot on and I think I have chronically underfed young transplants. I have recently found a few posts of some of the most prominent growers on here where they bash this whole 1/4 - 1/2 strength nute thing and advise near full strength. Especially given the fact I put them straight under intense CMH light.
You see, I don't think CalMag will help me, even with quite weak nute solution I easily get to 110-120ppm Ca and I have never seen Ca deficiencies/lockout. I may up the Epson to get Mg to 40-50, always have issues with Mg after transplant.



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]@bigpeter[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Good advice man, I am anal about run-off EC too, even have those custom built metal trays on legs to be able to measure it from every individual pot I have used Canna Coco and 6/9 before, this run I am testing FNB and Maxibloom, I'm happy so far.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]@indocult[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Another good advice I think, I will deff experiment with minimal tamp down next time. I am adverse to putting a plant first and then watering to saturation. Do you not find that this keeps the coir too wet for too long? Or it does not fully saturate if you only water to slight run off?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By the way, I watered them well with a balanced pHed solution at about 1.4-1.5 and stabilized VPD and they are greening up and perking up nicely. Run off was 1.0-1.2 ...
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What do all you think about my idea of soaking the coco for a few hours in a complete solution with a good amount Ca/Mg, then wringing it out and transplanting into it?
[/FONT]


Thanks

Yeah, use more water.

lastmob said:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What do all you think about my idea of soaking the coco for a few hours in a complete solution with a good amount Ca/Mg, then wringing it out and transplanting into it?
[/FONT]

Thanks

Click to expand...

I personally will not soak it for a few hours.
Are you still using CANNA Coco? I've been playing with CANNA coco for more then 10 years now and not once have i ever "pre charged" it.

Like stated above, for transplanting i open a fresh bag of coco and dump it lightly into whatever container im going to use filling it about halfway.

Drop the clone in and pour the rest of the coco all around it keeping it light, i don't press the clones or coco down hard but i will just a bit to make everything firm and just feed right after.

If your transplant is small compared to the container you are going in then watering lightly around it will get it started but you must give it a few good feedings after so you don't have build up.

I also only use Canna Coco and have never pre charged it. I also reuse it several times. Canna is buffered and ready to use out of the bag. Go to there site and watch the video on why Canna is so much better than the rest.

what do you mean by wringing out???
i use cheapest brick i can find, soak overnight in 8g hot tap water to expand and maybe kill any larva. then i fill 5g bucket with paint strainer ( holes in bucket too) and cold tap till almost clear looking runoff. then 3g nutes at 450-500ppm to charge and set ph. i let it sit n drain a few minutes to couple hrs then transplant. water next day n everyday after.

You may be over thinking this one. I'm using Mother Earth this round. Last time it was CYCO. Before that California Substrates. The grow shop has been low on coco.

I stick the clones into uncharged coco w/ perlite and Mycos and start feeding at 1000ppm including Silica and Mg/Cal. I only use MG/Cal because of the LEDs. I didn't need it under T5s and HPS. I always feed through with about 10%+ runoff.

I transplant to 5 gal bags of the same uncharged coco and perlite and start feeding about 1/2 gal of 950 ppm 4 times a day. I only check runoff if I think there's an issue. If it's more that 300ppm over of my feed I flush.

In flower I inoculate the plants once a week with Mycos and Azos.

lastmob said:

I also must say that after I moisten the coco I squeeze every bit of moisture I can and put it in 4-6l fabric pots trying not to pack it down too much. I also try to water slowly.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend this. You are changing the density of the coco and eliminating the proper air space for roots. When planting into coco it should be fluffy like it is out of the bag. Then when you water the coco it will compact to the density that the coco is meant to grow in.

Peace.
Happy Growing.

I should have made myself more clear. After I squeeze the moisture from the coir I fluff it up again with my hands, I don't use the clay balls that form


So all you guys just dump it in the pot, put the plant in and water? Well I might try that one, what I have been doing is a bitch lol


Does everybody try to keep their coco as unpacked as possible? I never press it in but I always "drop" the pot/cup lightly to let it settle somewhat.

Yeah just smash the pot on the ground a bunch of times and the coco almost settles to the point where it would if you watered it.
Adding magnesium to 4:1 ca:mg can be a good idea. coco bricks are only washed with calcium nitrate
Other than that its just about matching runoff EC to input EC and you wont have no more troubles. For fresh stuff pour approx the container volume of nutrient water through it. It doesn't matter how deep the plant is or nothing like that

Fyi. Coco from bags i.e Canna coco. It is impossible to compress too much. Many occasions ive really packed it down around the rootball upon transplant. Compost is the same. But if your using living soils with mineral content that where compression is a big problem and should be avoided. Most important factor as a few have said, is to precharge your coco with the feed ongoing for that plant being transplanted and make sure runoff matches or is above feed going in. Then weekly flush of half strength nutrients, this is the key point.....

Green81 said:

Fyi. Coco from bags i.e Canna coco. It is impossible to compress too much. Many occasions ive really packed it down around the rootball upon transplant. Compost is the same. But if your using living soils with mineral content that where compression is a big problem and should be avoided. Most important factor as a few have said, is to precharge your coco with the feed ongoing for that plant being transplanted and make sure runoff matches or is above feed going in. Then weekly flush of half strength nutrients, this is the key point.....

Click to expand...

Not true. Compacting growing media causes drain veins in the pot stopping the water from percolating through the media fully saturating it. Nobody in the horticultural industry would ever recommend packing down your growing media when planting.

https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/t...void-problems-with-growing-medium-compaction/

"Growing media serve four functions: plant support, water retention, reservoir for nutrients, and exchange of gases.

All growing media are engineered to achieve these functions in order to produce high quality plants. These functions vary depending on origin of the substrate/components, particle size and container shape and height. Nevertheless, most growing medium manufacturers can provide customers with Technical Data Sheets that list the physical properties, nutrient content and other product information pertaining to a specific growing medium.

Compaction changes the physical properties of the growing medium, defeating the purpose of having the proper growing medium for a particular crop or application.

Macropores within a growing medium are responsible for providing air space, fast water infiltration and good drainage. When compaction occurs, these macropores collapse and the physical structure is modified. Substrate compaction can also occur when the substrate has an improper ratio of coarse and fine particles, which can occur with the same component or with different components. This mistake is usually associated with lack of availability of quality materials or a bad assumption that adding large-sized components to small components will correct physical properties."

lastmob said:

I should have made myself more clear. After I squeeze the moisture from the coir I fluff it up again with my hands, I don't use the clay balls that form


So all you guys just dump it in the pot, put the plant in and water? Well I might try that one, what I have been doing is a bitch lol


Does everybody try to keep their coco as unpacked as possible? I never press it in but I always "drop" the pot/cup lightly to let it settle somewhat.

Click to expand...

Yes it's that simple... Under one condition tho.. you must use quality coco for that to work. If you are still using CANNA Brand coco you are good to go bro.

I switched to canna bricks and I Precharge by just add my veg nutes at 1.9 EC. There’s 1tsp/gal botanicare cal/mag + in that nute mix along w 2ml/gal rapid start. That’s how I both charge and hydrate the blocks. I got it down so there’s no excess liquid but if there is just squeeze it out as you doing. So I reckon with the bagged stuff you sill get excess liquid if u precharge. And like others suggested I too drop the pot to get it to level out. After your first watering u will most likely need to top off w some more coco. This is a good indicator u haven’t packed down too much

lastmob said:

I should have made myself more clear. After I squeeze the moisture from the coir I fluff it up again with my hands, I don't use the clay balls that form


So all you guys just dump it in the pot, put the plant in and water? Well I might try that one, what I have been doing is a bitch lol


Does everybody try to keep their coco as unpacked as possible? I never press it in but I always "drop" the pot/cup lightly to let it settle somewhat.

Click to expand...

I'll tuck the root ball in to get the plant to stand up strait. But don't compact it thoroughly. If you don't want to see the roots you'll need to top the coco as it compresses.

Absolem said:

Not true. Compacting growing media causes drain veins in the pot stopping the water from percolating through the media fully saturating it. Nobody in the horticultural industry would ever recommend packing down your growing media when planting.

https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/t...void-problems-with-growing-medium-compaction/

"Growing media serve four functions: plant support, water retention, reservoir for nutrients, and exchange of gases.

All growing media are engineered to achieve these functions in order to produce high quality plants. These functions vary depending on origin of the substrate/components, particle size and container shape and height. Nevertheless, most growing medium manufacturers can provide customers with Technical Data Sheets that list the physical properties, nutrient content and other product information pertaining to a specific growing medium.

Compaction changes the physical properties of the growing medium, defeating the purpose of having the proper growing medium for a particular crop or application.

Macropores within a growing medium are responsible for providing air space, fast water infiltration and good drainage. When compaction occurs, these macropores collapse and the physical structure is modified. Substrate compaction can also occur when the substrate has an improper ratio of coarse and fine particles, which can occur with the same component or with different components. This mistake is usually associated with lack of availability of quality materials or a bad assumption that adding large-sized components to small components will correct physical properties."

Click to expand...

All correct and proper, maybe a choice of word is consolidate the growing medium rather than compaction but coco coir is quite hard to 'compact' based on the nature of its fibre content. It naturally holds a lot of air, bad coco coir is when large peices of coir turn to dust, this then stops air content from existing in high values, as we know this is bad for root development.

Slightly off topic, if anyone is using bricked Coco and manually hydrating, consider pre fluffed bagged Coco (if it's available to you).

I used to think I was saving tons of money by purchasing bricks instead of bagged.

Honestly the time, effort, and space you need to hydrate bricks is worth more than the small amount more you pay for bagged.
It took me a few years to figure that one out!