Triacontanol Products

BigBozat · Oct 1, 2014

Raw_Dog said:
Bloombastic is probably the best t-nol readily available product, in my opinion. But since I learned what t-nol has done in lab studies I have since refused to use the product. Recently I went to work as a COO of a lettuce and kale farm. There I learned different high yield techniques from other indoor farmers who produced similar produce as the ones I was familiar with. Anyways, t-nol is linked to cancer causing agents. I mean really, what do you expect from a product that can increase yields 20% or more? Don't you know that product enters the body? That product also act similar inside the body as it did to the plant. Mikell, I have been doing this since 98-99, a dipshit know-nothing is not a good description of me. I wasn't even talking to you anyways, you're a nobody on here. What you say is shit, meaningless. Like I was saying, the MJ world needs to take more responsibility in what they sell the to masses. I can't wait until the days when we will have to place ingredients on our labels. I know, you have no fucking clue about the future of this business and your existence in it. Why am I even addressing your know nothing ass!?! Carry on.

What lab studies?

Evidence please!

Being recent COO of a lettuce & kale farm isn't evidence supporting the claim that tria is carcinogenic...

It might, however, be evidence - when combined with unsupported hyperbolic claims that run counter to the scientific consensus - of extremely low standards for lettuce & kale farm COO-hood...

milkyjoe · Oct 1, 2014

The question I have deals with the solubility of tria in water...it isn't. You can make an alfafa tea and the tria does not get into the water. That means one must use a non polar solvent or a strong emulsifier like polysorb...these are the chemicals one may not want. For example if you look up the patent for Ca 25 they use acetone or methyl ethyl ketone to extract the tria.

I prefer to use alfalfa meal in the soil. Fungi are capable of digesting fat and making an exudate available to the plant.

It may also be possible to use an enzyme reaction to extract it but I am not aware of anyone doing that. Chances are if you get it in a bottle of water there are non polar or emulsifiers added. Too much emulsifier can degrade cell walls so be careful with the homemade stuff

SirStynkalot · Oct 1, 2014

So I'm going to cut past all the bickering and just ask nicely.

Do you have reference material for that claim by chance? I'm looking for it and can find a bit on toxicological and pharmacological properties but the best I can find is this: "1-Triacontanol was not mutagenic in an Ames bacterial test but induced chromosomal damage in an alga."

Do you have anything more? I've used Bloombastic off and on for years and am a huge fan. I'd love to be corrected if I'm missing something.

http://www.bibra-information.co.uk/downloads/toxicity-profile-for-triacontanol-1997/

EclipseFour20 · Oct 1, 2014

For the record....

Triacontanol was confirmed to have a potential anti-cancer effect, the aim was to assess whether the co-administration of triacontanol alters the exposure of docetaxel via inducing hepatic CYP3A1/2 activity. The concentration of docetaxel in rats pretreated with triacontanol for seven successive days was determined, and the expression levels of CYP3A protein and mRNA were analyzed by the western blot and real time polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) technique, respectively. 2. The concentrations of docetaxel in rats pretreated with triacontanol were decreased, with 61.5%, 61.9% decrease in AUC0-24h and 65.7%, 54.9% reduction in Cmax (120 and 180 mg kg(-1), respectively) compared with the control. Hepatic clearance of docetaxel was enhanced in vitro and in vivo at dosage of 120 and 180 mg kg(-1), and CYP3A activity was up-regulated by measuring the formation rate of 1-hydroxymidazolam. Triacontanol preferentially induced protein expression level of CYP3A2 in a dose-dependent manner and of CYP 3A1 at dosage of 120 and 180 mg kg(-1). The mRNA expression of CYP3A1 was moderately different with the western blot results, but the trends appeared similar. CYP3A2 mRNA level was not markedly affected by triacontanol. 3. The significant triacontanol-docetaxel interaction was largely due to the induction of CYP3A1/2, which brought useful information in the clinical therapy when the combination is administered in human.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24329500

And there is a patent titled, "USE OF TRIACONTANOL IN PREPARATION OF MEDICAMENTS FOR TREATMENT OF CANCERS" http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US7863337.pdf

Seems that someone's "cancer opinion" is not supported by the "facts"....and this was after only 4 minutes of "researching".

milkyjoe · Oct 1, 2014

I am not claiming tria is a prob. In fact I am not claiming low dose emulsifier (used in many pill medicines) or non polars are a real problem. Merely stating my preference to let the fungi sort it out.

BigBozat · Oct 1, 2014

Here's one...

Here's one...

milkyjoe said:
The question I have deals with the solubility of tria in water...it isn't. You can make an alfafa tea and the tria does not get into the water. That means one must use a non polar solvent or a strong emulsifier like polysorb...these are the chemicals one may not want. For example if you look up the patent for Ca 25 they use acetone or methyl ethyl ketone to extract the tria.

I prefer to use alfalfa meal in the soil. Fungi are capable of digesting fat and making an exudate available to the plant.

It may also be possible to use an enzyme reaction to extract it but I am not aware of anyone doing that. Chances are if you get it in a bottle of water there are non polar or emulsifiers added. Too much emulsifier can degrade cell walls so be careful with the homemade stuff

Don't know nothing about it or the vendor, but fwiw...

http://sunjaybio.com/product.html

[About halfway down the page...]
E. 2 in 1 Liquid Triacontanol & Bio Seaweed Extract :

Unique 2 in 1 combination plant growth promoter with Triacontanol from Beeswax & Liquid Seaweed - Extracted by unique Enzymatic process.

milkyjoe · Oct 1, 2014

Figured it was possible just did not know for certain. That would be my choice other than putting it in the soil. I have looked at vitazyme also

BigBozat · Oct 1, 2014

milkyjoe said:
Figured it was possible just did not know for certain. That would be my choice other than putting it in the soil. I have looked at vitazyme also

Didn't know about Vitazyme (but prolly should have)... thanks for the tip!

Mikell · Oct 1, 2014

milkyjoe said:
The question I have deals with the solubility of tria in water...it isn't. You can make an alfafa tea and the tria does not get into the water. That means one must use a non polar solvent or a strong emulsifier like polysorb...these are the chemicals one may not want. For example if you look up the patent for Ca 25 they use acetone or methyl ethyl ketone to extract the tria.

That reminds me. I don't know a heck of a lot about traditional surfactants, but I do know some are poisonous/dangerous, and may be carcinogenic. After an hour or so piddling around Google/Scholar, *.edu sites, finding similar results as SirStynkalot and EF420, the only cancerous effects of tria I could think of, would be attributed to a surfactant or emulsifier.

Raw_Dog · Oct 2, 2014

I must apologize because after researching the data for myself I didn't find a single thing wrong with the product. I stand to be corrected. I was obviously misinformed. When I'm wrong I'm wrong.

smurfin'herb · Oct 2, 2014

A respectable man, admits when he wrong. Cheers!

BigBozat · Oct 2, 2014

Appreciate that

Appreciate that

Raw_Dog said:
I must apologize because after researching the data for myself I didn't find a single thing wrong with the product. I stand to be corrected. I was obviously misinformed. When I'm wrong I'm wrong.

Nice... I for 1 like the standing up, and openness to evidence.
Sorry for taking cheap shot re: COO stds...

Curious:
What led u to the opposite conclusion in the 1st place?

You referenced your ag background & lab tests... just wondering how / what sequence of events caused you to conclude that tria was carcinogenic (to the point of soap-boxing on an mj nute > tria forum)?

Not trying to :beat-dead

: or

just wondering how that happens to someone who is willing to research & objectively evaluate real / sci evidence?

Actually, maybe u can pm instead... off-topic...

Let's get back to the orig Q which was generating a list of tria products folks know/like/use... recapping so far it seems to be:

Alfalfa meal
Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed
AN's Nirvana <- lots of other stuff in it, too... wonder what they use for surfactant? maybe that's what RD was thinking?
Atami's Bloombastic <- my Q is: what's in the Bio-Bloombastic version? is it the same basic stuff, just bio/enzymatically derived?
GreenPlanet's Massive Bloom
GrowMore Jump Start
MBferts Hormone-Vitamin Booster <- hmmm...
Sunjay 2in1 liquid Tria & Bio Seaweed Extract <- a fwiw example of an enzymatically extracted tri product

[As an aside it is noted that the surfactants/adjuvants for [some?] liquid products might well be problematic... 'tho cites are prolly needed here?]

Anymore?

Next!

homebrew420 · Oct 2, 2014

Cal-25 is advertised as having T-nol and increasing yields ect. I have not really used it though.

EclipseFour20 · Oct 2, 2014

hmmmmm add Canna Boost to the list (best as a foliar spray of course)--the label does not give any clues, but I believe the consensus of most peeps...is that does contain tria.

smurfin'herb · Oct 2, 2014

google triacontanol and the first thing that comes up is a picture of boost with a decscription on Tria.

Apache Kush · Oct 2, 2014

BigBozat said:
Let's get back to the orig Q which was generating a list of tria products folks know/like/use... recapping so far it seems to be:

Alfalfa meal

Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed

AN's Nirvana <- lots of other stuff in it, too... wonder what they use for surfactant? maybe that's what RD was thinking?

Atami's Bloombastic <- my Q is: what's in the Bio-Bloombastic version? is it the same basic stuff, just bio/enzymatically derived?

GreenPlanet's Massive Bloom

GrowMore Jump Start

MBferts Hormone-Vitamin Booster <- hmmm...

Sunjay 2in1 liquid Tria & Bio Seaweed Extract <- a fwiw example of an enzymatically extracted tri product

[As an aside it is noted that the surfactants/adjuvants for [some?] liquid products might well be problematic... 'tho cites are prolly needed here?]

Anymore?

Next!

thats a good list there ty

Also, your all saying to mix with a disp soap, or whatnot to help it mix in? #preach

Storm Shadow · Oct 2, 2014

Grow More Jump Start or Super Thrive

too much triacontanol late in flowering will make your plants foxtail / crown

They wont be as dense and they might even start spitting out new white pistils...its best used in veg and first couple weeks of flowering

IndoGorilla · Oct 2, 2014

Storm Shadow said:
Grow More Jump Start or Super Thrive

too much triacontanol late in flowering will make your plants foxtail / crown

They wont be as dense and they might even start spitting out new white pistils...its best used in veg and first couple weeks of flowering

I had some foxtail/crowning happen to me. I followed the directions on the bottle like a doofus!

Now I don't know if this question warrants it's own thread or not, but I would like to know if I should/could be using anything else along side with my Green Planet Massive(tria product). Like Liquid Koolbloom? I'm using GH 3 part and on my 2nd grow.

stevewinthrop · Oct 2, 2014

For the week you're using liquid Kool bloom I'd play it safe and cut out the triacontanol. The reason being that liquid Kool bloom probably also contains pgrs in addition to high pk. Probably also why they say "start with liquid kb, finish with dry" because the dry product doesn't have pgrs.

SirStynkalot · Oct 2, 2014

Storm Shadow said:
Grow More Jump Start or Super Thrive

too much triacontanol late in flowering will make your plants foxtail / crown

They wont be as dense and they might even start spitting out new white pistils...its best used in veg and first couple weeks of flowering

I'll second on the foxtailing/crowning and white pistils with high doses - seen it with the bloombastic. One of my old buddies used high doses starting at week 4 and he got that every time on every strain. I always wondered what did it since his plants were healthy otherwise and it wasn't obviously environmental. THANKS! That's been bothering me for years. Never put two and two together.

Superthrive doesn't list tria as an ingredient - they only list an auxin and B vitamins. Heard it was derived from male plant hormones and could cause seedlings to hermie or possibly increase the ratio of males if applied too early.

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