Organics for Meatballs: Long Bloomin' Sats

mrS0ul · Jan 9, 2016

Organics
for

I just dropped an ACE Malawi and 2 Cannabiogen Destroyer. I also have a Ace Purple Haze x Malawi [ :watchplant:

documented to take up to 26 weeks to finish bloom.] on the way.

I use LC's Mix Blood/Bone/Kelp ver with EWC/Molasses Tea]
Reading the 'Organics for Beginners' thread what I took from it is just increase the perlite one part. [5 parts Peat 4 parts perlite 2 parts EWC] as drainage is key.

..and now a word from 2 of the 5 smartest people as well as one of the nicest I know internetually.

So 3...

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xmobotx · Jan 9, 2016

CEC is key to long-term soil mixes & availability w/o making too hot of a mix. blood simply isn't a good addition ~too soluble. those mixes want dolomite lime. that's seldom a good choice either. oyster flour or a CaCO3 lime {not fast acting} is better & some gypsum too ~sulfur is frequently overlooked. i like crab meal for a versatile addition that basically stands on it's own vs bone meal. plant based additions like alfalfa meal, comfrey or virtually any dynamic accumulator make a good mulch which will break down and enrich your mix over time.

the clay may be good to help w/ CEC ~though i see you mention it as drainage? if it's fired, it's probably inert & i mean clay like clay in soil.

sativas can be super light feeders as far as dialing a mix goes. i don't buy in to that dial your mix thinking. just saying too much amendments will be damaging

TheyCallMeJJay · Jan 9, 2016

I grew a long running no name Sativa a few years ago. I used the exact mix you are talking about. Made it up from scratch twice. The second run did better with half the blood meal of that specific mix.

You can always supplement with a high nitrogen guano tea if needed (I had to do it early on) and only needed one. I halved that nutrient tea mix.

Microbeman · Jan 9, 2016

I did not see if you mentioned your container size. A larger volume will naturally store more nutrients via CEC.

Also from my experience cannabis likes sending feeder roots horizontally and into the zone just below the surface. This makes sense because this is the area just below where nature designed soil microbes to degrade organic matter and minerals which accumulate on the surface. In my estimation this makes the surface area of your growing container as important as the depth.

If I presume you are implementing a living soil type of growing, then I suggest including a broad spectrum rock and clay powder mix. There are others who know more about the refinement of market mixes (KIS or BAS for advice?).

My methods included using some soft rock phosphate, oyster shell, calcium & sodium bentonite, magnetic black river sand, pyrophyllite (if available) and multi-colored pea gravel. These at about one cup per contractor's wheelbarrow. Also added was feed grade kelp meal at around 2 cups. Alfalfa meal was used at lesser amounts due to the soluble nitrates released from it,

[In cases where pea gravel was the source of drainage the rate was increased but it makes containers damn heavy so is only practical for permanent setups]

As X mentioned sulphur is important. I have used elemental sulphur in mixes but natural gypsum could be the best solution as it averages 15% sulphur and 19% calcium.

As others have mentioned, topdressing required amendments and using liquid nutrient concoctions and aerated compost tea (ACT) are key to long term growth plants. I would not use bloodmeal but that is just me. I prefer making alfalfa meal, kelp meal and a pinch of molasses tea as well as topdressing vermicompost (and VC slurry) and using ACT throughout.

mrS0ul · Jan 10, 2016

..yep..

Tonygreen · Jan 10, 2016

the only advice i got for you is dont feed your long blooming sativas maxi bloom at 7g per gallon every other watering like i tried a few years back. Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My soil mix is only tested by me up to 11 weeks so far and probably too rich to start for a more delicate sativa?

Ill be sure to check out your 26 week grow tho if ya document it dude, good luck!

mrS0ul · Jan 10, 2016

Music!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YOAz4nPNvLI

mrS0ul · Jan 10, 2016

Edited for Brevity.

mrS0ul · Jan 10, 2016

Tonygreen said:
the only advice i got for you is dont feed your long blooming sativas maxi bloom at 7g per gallon every other watering like i tried a few years back. Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My soil mix is only tested by me up to 11 weeks so far and probably too rich to start for a more delicate sativa?

Ill be sure to check out your 26 week grow tho if ya document it dude, good luck!

Check! I won't do that. :good:

Lol!
Do you mind maybe sharing your recipe/mix? The Dr. Grinspoon/Destoryer/Malawi/Golden Tiger :skiiing:

are all 11-14 weeks with 16 weeks documented so there's that and I guess good or bad I will document the PH x KM but that run is after this first batch of shorter long sativas and the fight card is always subject to change.... :tiphat:

Tonygreen · Jan 11, 2016

check it out in my sig bro, works great as a water only mix

mrS0ul · Jan 11, 2016

Tonygreen said:
check it out in my sig bro, works great as a water only mix

...der... I saw that. I am in the middle of nowhere and sourcing that stuff is kind of 'spensive for volume. I have a trip planned to this Super Grow Store about 3 hours away over the summer to try out some stuff that used pretty commonly. Wanted to try FFOF in the beginning but due to sourcing I had to go with what I am using till I could expand my horizons a bit. My success with it has been as described. Not too shabby. I want to get away from peat once I can budget in the coco. I use a shit ton of peat. You are friends w/ B1? Love that guy. Read all his stuff when I decided to take up a new hobby. Respect.

:tiphat:

mrS0ul · Jan 11, 2016

Subject Dense with words and complex..... significant lexicon.

Definition of adsorption
: the adhesion in an extremely thin layer of molecules (as of gases, solutes, or liquids) to the surfaces of solid bodies or liquids with which they are in contact

stoned-trout · Jan 11, 2016

just make a few teas if needed....yeehaw

barletta · Jan 11, 2016

Soil with shells & rocks (crab, oyster, azomite, rockdust) & topdress with plants & poops (alfalfa, kelp, guano)? Homemade castings. Drainage, drainage, drainage. Perlite floats over time, line the bottom of your containers with it if you will be going 12+weeks.

Ratzilla · Jan 11, 2016

Any time that I have something that takes longer then 10 weeks to finish I'll add 1 TBLSP of feather meal down low in a X pattern in my container.
Feather meal is 12-0-0 long term slow release.
Top dressing and compost tea will also keep the plants looking good.
Don't change from vegetative nutrients until after the stretch is over is another winning trick.
Ratz :tiphat:

heady blunts · Jan 12, 2016

i run 14 week nld in the same mix as my 8 weekers. they are happy. modified coots mix with extra biochar and rock dusts.

mrS0ul · Jan 13, 2016

TheyCallMeJJay said:
I grew a long running no name Sativa a few years ago. I used the exact mix you are talking about. Made it up from scratch twice. The second run did better with half the blood meal of that specific mix.

You can always supplement with a high nitrogen guano tea if needed (I had to do it early on) and only needed one. I halved that nutrient tea mix.

I am going with it just had to smoke it down a little.
The documented base has a ratio modification that supposedly allow you to stick to the recipe but based on your findings and mining some old threads I found this.

Quote
I like to feed tropical sats at half N strenght than hybrids and indicas. As you said, N excess would produce leaf curl and too much stretching, SE asian sats are quite sensible to N excesses in small pots. End Quote.

Source: Handle/Dubi
I think he is a rep for ACE maybe?
[Dubi is the breeder?]

Sensei says to just use the modified base mix w/ the full dose of N

Pot size will be no bigger then 2 gallons until she starts budding then move to a fresh mix between 3.5 and 5 gallons and there is a link between pot size and canopy height because if you over shoot the vertical you could be forced to cut out prime colas. [Source: Dubi]

I will run her in the base as long as she can stand it in a 1 liter soda bottle then transplant in to a 2 gallon Modified LC Base with N used at 1/2 dosage, use ewc/molasses as needed and if she is happy with that when buds show I will transplant her into the same thing in a 3.5-5 gallon and repeat.

I suspect I will need the hotter mix but I am prepared either way and if I don't, easier all the more .

If she is really hungry or I see deficiency I will transplant to the full dosage mix when I go to the step up pot. I'm doing a test run of Dr. Grinspoon and Malawi first for a shakedown.

I think it will be ok but we will see.

mrS0ul · Jan 13, 2016

heady blunts said:
i run 14 week nld in the same mix as my 8 weekers. they are happy. modified coots mix with extra biochar and rock dusts.

Coots and CoCo are on the short list of things I want to know all about.

:headbange

Is this the one or a version of it.

"Equal parts of Sphagnum peat moss, some aeration and some mix of humus –worm castings
To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:
1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal (or Crustacean meal when available – it has Shrimp meal with the Crab meal. It’s a local product from the fisheries on the Oregon & Washington Coasts) *
4 cups of some minerals – rock dust

heady blunts · Jan 13, 2016

yup perfect! a nice thing about this mix is no cook time. also i use the same soil for starting seeds as i do for finishing 10 gallon plants. pretty convenient!

coots mix

1:1:1 peat:compost:aeration

per cubic foot add

1/2 c kelp meal
1/2 c neem cake
1/2 c crab shell meal

1 c glacial rock dust
1 c basalt rock dust
1 c gypsum
1 c oyster shell powder

my modified mix:

heady's wicked lobstah mix

makes 2 yards

3 bales of peat fluffed and hydrated with aloe or yucca (one 3.8 cuft compressed bale =~6 cuft decompressed)
9 bags of coast of maine lobster compost (1 cuft each)
6 bags of benson farms "surf & turf" compost (1 cuft each)
1 bag chunky perlite (4 cuft)
1 bag super coarse perlite (4 cuft)
2 bags buckwheat hulls (2 cuft each)
4 bags royal oak lump charcoal smashed and precharged with neptune's fish and seaweed (17# each)

50 cups oyster shell meal
1 bag granite dust (50#)
1 bag "brixblend" paramagnetic basalt dust (50#)
1 bag "richmix" mineralized biochar (25#) (not necessary but I had it)
1 bag granulated azomite (44#)

1 bag neem seed meal (20#)
1 bag neptune's harvest crab shells (50#)
1 bag maine harvested kelp (50#)

Easy7 · Jan 13, 2016

Get yourself some organic goat poop. Not the powdered stuff, but the 'brown berries'. It's an excellent gentle slow release fert. A little low in the phosphorous department, nothing high phosphorous guano can't solve. I'd plan on slow release phosphorous but I'm not so familiar with those sources.

Why super soil? Can't make and use tea?

Seems like most people over-do the nitrogen with sativa's.

Organics for Meatballs: Long Bloomin' Sats

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