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At My Wits' End.

T

tilopa

Member
Cannot figure out what is happening here. Not a new grower. But in this situation the 2 new variables are the type of coco and 4k LED lights.

System - top-feed course coco.
Pot size - 2.5 quarts
Nutes - Jack's hydroponics
PPM/EC - 750/1.5
PH - 6.0
Water temp - 64f
Room temp - 80f
RH - 65%

I started my feeding from rooted clones with a 6 oz of nutes every 4 hours. Then I cut back to every 12 hours. Medium is moist but not drenched, and I never let it dry out.

These pics are 2 weeks in veg starting from rooted clones.

I cannot figure out what is causing this.

I forgot to mention, I got these clones from a friend, and because they were not mine and coming from an outside source, I junked them in Forbid 4F as soon as I got them. Then a week later I dunked them in Avid. Is is possible the Avid cause these leaf symptoms? My understanding it that Avid will not harm the plant usually.
 

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M

mcattak

Active member
What is the ph runoff. Bet it is over 6.7.

Forbid always used to piss my plants off.

Your humidity is not in range.
 
f-e

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Look at Mg. It rolls margins, giving a taco effect. Turns the tips brown, which advances to cover a third of the leaf before they just screw up and die. It can do some of the edges. The stripes. A lot of what I see.

It's easy to spray one and see if it advances from it's neighbours. Fresh growth is rarely effected (though can have grey edges) so while the fix is quite immediate you may not see it really worked till a few days growth has gone well.

Sounds like new LED lights and a need for Mg isn't unusual with LED's. It's at the core of green building, so can effect other processes making it harder to spot.

Epson salts, obviously

Edit: I have a jacks chart here. I'm not sure it it's the one you have, but this one looks like the full package, but needs about 1.5g of epson in a bucket. It has everything else. Just needs the Mg
 
T

tilopa

Member
f-e said:
Look at Mg. It rolls margins, giving a taco effect. Turns the tips brown, which advances to cover a third of the leaf before they just screw up and die. It can do some of the edges. The stripes. A lot of what I see.

It's easy to spray one and see if it advances from it's neighbours. Fresh growth is rarely effected (though can have grey edges) so while the fix is quite immediate you may not see it really worked till a few days growth has gone well.

Sounds like new LED lights and a need for Mg isn't unusual with LED's. It's at the core of green building, so can effect other processes making it harder to spot.

Epson salts, obviously

Edit: I have a jacks chart here. I'm not sure it it's the one you have, but this one looks like the full package, but needs about 1.5g of epson in a bucket. It has everything else. Just needs the Mg
Click to expand...
Yes, I add Epson salts to every feed per Jack's recipe. But, because I've been reading on the coco forums that extra Mg is often needed, I upped my Mg and Cal the last couple feedings. Not showing any noticeable positive changes.
 
T

tilopa

Member
Loc Dog said:
Have you used microscope on bad leaves looking for broad mites, which are incredibly small?

If so, Stitch's guide is the best for problems - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
Click to expand...
funny you should mention, well, not really funny, but this is the second round I've tried with this new medium and the LED lights.

The first round I had similar but more intense issues. Long story short it was because of Russet mites. I destroyed all plants, nuked the room like 5 times, cleaned every piece of equipment. And then when I got the clones ducked in Forbid and then Avid.

Been checking the leaves with a 60x glass and a 120x scope, no bugs.

If the Russet mites survived all that I would call it quits.
 
Loc Dog

Loc Dog

Hobbies include "drinkin', smokin' weed, and all k
Veteran
tilopa said:
funny you should mention, well, not really funny, but this is the second round I've tried with this new medium and the LED lights.

The first round I had similar but more intense issues. Long story short it was because of Russet mites. I destroyed all plants, nuked the room like 5 times, cleaned every piece of equipment. And then when I got the clones ducked in Forbid and then Avid.

Been checking the leaves with a 60x glass and a 120x scope, no bugs.

If the Russet mites survived all that I would call it quits.
Click to expand...

I had trash entire grow from broad mites. Was able to save GG4 strain by treating with neem oil, using Snypes method (a little less obsessive). I do not know strength, but use USB microscope, and still small. You would need to check before applying treatment, since you would kill them, but eggs are buried in leaves, so not seen, and protected. Snype was excellent, but has been banned.

He says it is nightmare to recover from them -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=268311
 
B.T. Herb

B.T. Herb

Member
edit. i missed was another thread.
:laughing:. i believed you were ... well someotherelse.

anyway i saw that veg's ratio of macros they sell is still quite low in P.


sorry, once more
 
T

tilopa

Member
I believe now that my nute solution is too hot for coco, and maybe especially because of the pesticide stress.

I've flushed, and will start feeding at EC 1.0 and see how that goes.
 
B.T. Herb

B.T. Herb

Member
tilopa said:
It's the 5/12/26+15/0/0

I looks more like N deficiency.
Click to expand...


hi tilopa,


have a better look, bro: they manage high N on veg, slow N on flo; less P in veg, high P on flo. that could mean something.

i still stand for a more balanced ratio between N, P and K since some strains need more N and someother less with an higher P ratio.then...tour part B it's almost calcium nitrate.

about your problem i don't really know which strain we are talking about..
can't say so much and i could be wrong when i see two different disease there. just the cut on the second photo got then a N locked. others doesn't reveal an N deficiency to me. if i'm in you,before all, i would try to understand if pot are well wet.a well rooted 2.5 quarts pot need to be always wet.
then, about the others two, i don't know what's Av but... could be.seems it was literally burnt.




good luck
 
T

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
I agree that it is a magnesium issue.

However the question is why.

- PPM/EC - 750/1.5

Try 0.6 EC on top of the water's EC. The plants do look a little crispy/have too much salts.

- Nutes - Jack's hydroponics

Amazing how many people get into trouble using Jack's. It is best to get a line that is specific for coco, and even better the nutrient line from the same coco coir supplier. Canna with Canna Coco. Plagron coco nutrients for Plagron coco.

It's not necessary, however for someone starting out it takes a lot of the variables out of the equation. And start out using a quarter of the eventual nutrient solution.
 
B.T. Herb

B.T. Herb

Member
TanzanianMagic said:
I agree that it is a magnesium issue.
Click to expand...

HI TanzaniaMagic,
i would say that a Mg lack usually starts appearing between leaf veins not from the leaf board and i' m pretty sure that more Mg will not resolve that issue.



tilopa said:
I believe now that my nute solution is too hot for coco, and maybe especially because of the pesticide stress.
.
Click to expand...
hi tilopa.
honestly,can't see any relation between pesticide stress and your hard solution.

as i said, N/P/K ratio they sell isn't suitable for my standard. nevertheless Ca seems to high to me: that could brings some problem.

then, P is know to be lacking in mobility and tend to be flushed away easier than N. IMHO, this could lock N down so... sounds really strange to me growing in coir with such an imbalance between n/p and p/k.
tilopa said:
Medium is moist but not drenched, and I never let it dry out.
Click to expand...
i had similar problem in the past due to a medium not properly wet.

i wish i could help you more than i did
 just my two cents
good luck
 
T

TanzanianMagic

Well-known member
Veteran
B.T. Herb said:
HI TanzaniaMagic,
i would say that a Mg lack usually starts appearing between leaf veins not from the leaf board and i' m pretty sure that more Mg will not resolve that issue.
Click to expand...
Neither do I.

What I'm saying is that for some reason, Mg is being locked out because of the high EC.

Magnesium is antagonistic to too much Calcium and Potassium. Rather than speculation about which nutrient, it is best to just flush/reduce the EC.
 
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