Breeding for CBD

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

Yo whattup y'all. Trying to get an understandig on breeding for various cannabinoids, in this scenario CBD.

If using a variety like CBD crew's "CBD Therapy" which lists the following as it's description:

CBD Crew has a world first in releasing this long awaited low THC and high CBD strain. While there are rumors of seed varieties originating out of hemp strains, the CBD Therapy is solely derived from recreational high THC cannabis strains and has taken some 4 years to try stabilize with the use of science. Fully lab tested in both USA (The WercShop) and Europe (Fundación CANNA, Spain ) all the CBD Therapy came out all low THC high CBD and the seeds were released to the market. Now after getting a lot of great feedback from growers and medicinal users, CBD Crew noticed that not all seeds came out with very low THC, high CBD. Some closer to 5:1 even a few 2:1, so CBD Crew did an extensive new round of testing of the latest seed crop to see if the variations occurred often. They found that 50-75% of the CBD Therapy seeds will have very low THC, high CBD, but 25-50% could have higher THC. No seed will produce only high THC, always both CBD/ THC. Never seeds with higher THC than the CBD, but variations from 20:1 to 2:1 can occur. In every package, there will be one or more low THC, high CBD phenos. CBD Crew are now working on making the CBD Therapy even more stable, to make it easier or the growers and users. CBD Therapy will be revolutionary in treating people who do not wish to have high THC like those suffering with Dravets syndrome, MS, Crohn's , fibromyalgia, inflammation issues, anxiety / depression or Epilepsy or those who are susceptible to the psychoactive effects of THC Cannabis. While it will not be something to cure cancer on its own, it provides a seed strain that can be controlled in one’s own grow room and further in one’s extraction making to mix together to create a best suited medicine for all types of illnesses and conditions. We do recommend people getting the cannabis lab tested if possible. While growing indoors might up the % a little, the plants will still be very low in THC compared to other cannabis strains. WARNING: This is NOT hemp and can not be grown as hemp due to the risk of higher THC than 0.5 due to it's genetics of pure cannabis.

Basically I want to put CBD dominant plants together with THC dominant plants and search the prognency for high ratios of CBD to THC in the resulting seed. The idea is to put traits from the non CBD types into the CBD rich stuff and work some lines that way a little bit. Does that make any sense? Anyone working any stuff this way care to share any advise?

Thanks

Burt · Oct 10, 2020

Sounds like a fun and rewarding project. Cheap and easy access to testing and analytics comes to mind right away.
All the best on your quest

Switcher56 · Oct 10, 2020

Like everything else in life... balance

CosmicGiggle · Oct 10, 2020

Makes perfect sense, I've been thinking the same, keep going!

gorilla ganja · Oct 10, 2020

When you cross THC dominate plants with CBD dominate plants you should get:
25 % THC dominant
50% roughly 1:1 ratio
25% CBD dominant

The key is finding the CBD ones and breeding only with those. Lots of testing to weed out the THC.

Best of luck
Peace GG

El Timbo · Oct 10, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
The idea is to put traits from the non CBD types into the CBD rich stuff and work some lines that way a little bit.

No, that makes no sense to me at all - what is your final aim? Maybe I'm missing something.

El Timbo · Oct 10, 2020

El Timbo said:
No, that makes no sense to me at all - what is your final aim? Maybe I'm missing something.

Sorry I should have read the seed description better in the first place - they are selling a strain that they call a CBD strain, that they "fully" tested but then tested again and found different results...

What does "50-75% of the CBD Therapy seeds will have very low THC, high CBD" even mean? 50-75%? Can't they be a little less vague?

djonkoman · Oct 10, 2020

so what is your endgoal? mostly CBD with just some trace thc, or closer to 50/50?
the first should be relatively easy, the 2nd much harder.

thc and cbd in the plant get made from the same precursor(CBGA), to keep it simple, you've got an enzyme that turs cbg into cbd, and another one that turns it into thc(however if you get down to the details it gets a bit more complicated, since even without thc-enzyme you've got some trace thc production, so if you for example want to stay below 0.3% to have it classified as hemp, that's more difficult).

so basically it's a simple case of swapping a thc-enzyme for a cbd-one, and they behave mostly as co-dominant alleles of one gene(also a bit more complex in reality, but they're tightly linked regions so in most cases they will behave like one gene).

so mostly cbd is just a case of finding the mostly cbd plants in the f2, and after that it will be stable. 50/50 ratio however will keep segregating every time, unless you find a rare recombinant with both enzymes on one chromosome.

troutman · Oct 10, 2020

If your goal is to breed for one Cannabinoid be prepared to get laboratory testing done to verify things. :tiphat:

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

The endgoal would be to make some CBD rich plants anywhere from 1:1 CBD:THC all the way up to as high as 20:1 CBD:THC with added traits from THC rich specimens that are more widespread and available.

For example, terpene profiles in THC rich plants that aren't as easily found in CBD rich varieties and combining the two looking for CBD types with the smells and scents of the THC rich plants.

Keeping it super simple, something super blueberry smelling but CBD rich instead of THC. Something very orange and citrus smelling from cali-o or tangie or something like that put to a CBD variety and looking for the CBD rich types that smell of citrus and oranges. More focused on the terpene profiles than other attributes but also interested in things like flowering time, flower shape, ect.

Much love

GoatCheese · Oct 10, 2020

El Timbo said:
Sorry I should have read the seed description better in the first place - they are selling a strain that they call a CBD strain, that they "fully" tested but then tested again and found different results...

What does "50-75% of the CBD Therapy seeds will have very low THC, high CBD" even mean? 50-75%? Can't they be a little less vague?

What they mean is that, thou they first stated that their CBD Therapy was supposed to be a STABLE high-CBD/low-THC variety, now after re-testing they can only promise 50%-75% are low-THC plants.

..i’m not too impressed with the ”breeders” at CBD Crew.

Every nine female plants i have grown from them started growing nanners at some point during 12/12, fastest one on the 4th week, while my CBD Critical Cure from Barney’s right next to CBD Crew’s stuff didn’t grow any nanners. And their plants didn’t have too impressive CBD levels either (CBD 3D and CBD Divine).

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

troutman said:
If your goals are to breed for one Cannabinoid be prepared to get laboratory testing done to verify things.

For sure, they'll be sent off for cannabinoid/terpene analysis.

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

GoatCheese said:
What they mean is that, thou they first stated that their CBD Therapy was supposed to be a STABLE high-CBD/low-THC variety, now after re-testing they can only promise 50%-75% are low-THC plants.

..i’m not too impressed with the ”breeders” at CBD Crew.

Every nine female plants i have grown from them started growing nanners at some point during 12/12, fastest one on the 4th week, while my CBD Critical Cure from Barney’s right next to CBD Crew’s stuff didn’t grow any nanners. And their plants didn’t have too impressive CBD levels either (CBD 3D and CBD Divine).

That's interesting. I read the following on MRN:

Hi All

i have made these seeds for dinafem and barneys both are made with CBD parent and Critical Mass...just different generic names depending upon the seed company. We offered each seed company CBD shark and CBD Critical Mass before we CBDized their mother plants they asked and sent to me ....so they could begin selling CBD enriched seeds to those who needed them...that was back in 2012...2013 and 2014...we had over 12 other seed companies seeds at that stage enriching....it was a lot of work . But that is why most seed companies who worked with us then got this option.....hope that helps all the best Sb

Scooped some Ghandi and Therapy to see what's up in those lines. Much love

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

El Timbo said:
Sorry I should have read the seed description better in the first place - they are selling a strain that they call a CBD strain, that they "fully" tested but then tested again and found different results...

What does "50-75% of the CBD Therapy seeds will have very low THC, high CBD" even mean? 50-75%? Can't they be a little less vague?

It is what it is. Even if it takes a little searching, finding a 20:1 CBD:THC specimen would be worth the sorting. Sure, I'd love a pack that delivered all 20:1 specimens true breeding but it is what it is and I don't know of any varieties breeding true for CBD like that. The Therapy and Ghandi lines, Ghandi being a worked Therapy line, seem to be the best place to start at the moment though unless I'm missing something from another vendor. Much love

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

El Timbo said:
No, that makes no sense to me at all - what is your final aim? Maybe I'm missing something.

Terpene profiles and other morphological qualities found in THC rich varieties added to a CBD rich line while keeping the CBD:THC ratios leaning heavy towards CBD. Much love

Oregonism · Oct 10, 2020

Sounds like a lesson in autosomal vs sex linked traits.

Learn to make reciprocals to test progeny, if co-dominance is your aim.

Switcher56 · Oct 10, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
The endgoal would be to make some CBD rich plants anywhere from 1:1 CBD:THC all the way up to as high as 20:1 CBD:THC with added traits from THC rich specimens that are more widespread and available.

For example, terpene profiles in THC rich plants that aren't as easily found in CBD rich varieties and combining the two looking for CBD types with the smells and scents of the THC rich plants.

Keeping it super simple, something super blueberry smelling but CBD rich instead of THC. Something very orange and citrus smelling from cali-o or tangie or something like that put to a CBD variety and looking for the CBD rich types that smell of citrus and oranges. More focused on the terpene profiles than other attributes but also interested in things like flowering time, flower shape, ect.

Much love

You are breeding medicine, not taste or smell!!

El Timbo · Oct 10, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
Terpene profiles and other morphological qualities found in THC rich varieties added to a CBD rich line while keeping the CBD:THC ratios leaning heavy towards CBD. Much love

So you want to start with a group of seeds that don't breed true for high CBD/low THC and cross them with a high THC strain to develop a high CBD strain?

I can't see what could possibly go wrong.

sbeanonnamellow · Oct 10, 2020

You never had that pink bubblegum medicine as a kid that needed to be refrigerated? Stuff tasted like guava bubblegum.

Medicine should be tasty if it can be yeah? While I can't exactly throw up a link like Russo's Entourage Effects with respect to terpenes and thc, I'd assume there's more to it than just taste and smell with CBD as well. They modulate the experience for sure.

As for other morphological traits, I don't really like big fat buds due to the increased risk of mold in tropical and semi-tropical areas and/or areas with usual high humidity. The basis for part of these parentals is g13/skunk and I'd rather have something more "sativa" in growth characteristics and flower formation. Much love

Switcher56 · Oct 10, 2020

sbeanonnamellow said:
You never had that pink bubblegum medicine as a kid that needed to be refrigerated? Stuff tasted like guava bubblegum.

Medicine should be tasty if it can be yeah? While I can't exactly throw up a link like Russo's Entourage Effects with respect to terpenes and thc, I'd assume there's more to it than just taste and smell with CBD as well. They modulate the experience for sure.

As for other morphological traits, I don't really like big fat buds due to the increased risk of mold in tropical and semi-tropical areas and/or areas with usual high humidity. The basis for part of these parentals is g13/skunk and I'd rather have something more "sativa" in growth characteristics and flower formation. Much love

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid

Breeding for CBD

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