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A running conversation wiith Sunpulse

guerilla415

guerilla415

Member
Hello all,I am planning a side by side (kinda) grow experiment between Enhanced Spectrum HPS Bulbs and an array of 3 different bulbs of different spectrums from Sunpulse Bulbs. The details of my experiemnt are in the conversation so I wont go into it here.

I found some of the "scientist's" remarks intersting, some enlightening, but mostly it seems to me like he is talking down to me and to cannabis growers in general in them which is part of the reason I felt I should post.

Without futher ado...

guerilla415 said:
Hello there, I am writing to you today to propose a
>> way to increase the amount of people trying your bulbs by
>> providing them with real life feedback.
>>> I have to first point out that while your bulbs have been a
>> topic of discussion on the web forums that I frequent which have
>> the largest amount of legal medical growers on the web, the talk
>> is highly critical, mostly because of not having many fellow
>> members of the community to vouch for them.
>>> I would like to propose a detailed unbiased test of your lamps
>> versus the best that HPS has to offer at the moment which IMO is
>> the Hortilux Super HPS. I am very impressed with your products,
>> research and the little first hand experience that I have been
>> able to find. I truly believe in your product and would love to be
>> able to increase my quality and also hopefully help increase sales
>> for you ;)
>>> My reputation precedes me in the community and I can offer you
>> an extremely wide audience of interested growers who are just
>> dying to try your products out, but are hesitant for whatever
>> reason. Im sure that you can envision the benefits that a proper
>> review and journal with lots of pics, info and cold hard facts.
>>> I am planning on purchasing a bunch of your bulbs anyways and
>> actually was wondering if you offer packages like a mix/match 6
>> pack or even like a two or three pack of each spectrum.
>>> I am wondering if you would be interested in sponsoring this
>> test even in some small way. I would absolutely love for you send
>> me some of each of the spectrums in order to test them all,
>> however I would be happy to go over my game plan for the test if
>> this goes any further.
>>> My other request would be that if getting the test bulbs free of
>> charge is a bit too much, I was hoping maybe you would be willing
>> to send them to me at wholesale cost just to make it easier to
>> make sure I dont have to cut corners anywhere else in the room and
>> negatively effect the result.
>>> Well, its just a thought, and as I said, I think that u have a
>> very large untapped market that this would certainly help you
>> break into very soon. I know that u already work closely with the
>> community to a point, but its always more believable when u hear
>> recommendations from fellow growers as opposed to the company
>> trying to persuade you with charts and papers on specs that most
>> people dont even understand.
>>> Well, regardless of your response I am extremely excited to try
>> out your bulbs. That actually leads me to my next question...is it
>> almost necessary to use the lamp spinner to achieve the full
>> potential of the bulbs, or could they be used in standard
>> horizontal reflectors with little or no loss in output/efficiency?
>>> My final question is regarding my projected selection of bulbs
>> if we do not end up doing the test...I am picturing a row of four
>> 1000w lamps in horizontal reflectors with the plants moving from
>> one lamp to the next after a set amount of time.
>>> So far my plan looks like this...2x6.5k 1000w lamps for veg, the
>> plants move from these lamps to the first lamp in the flowering
>> room, the 4k 1000w for the first 1-3 weeks depending on the
>> flowering time, from there they move over to two 3k lamps for the
>> majority of flowering, then finishing off under the 10k for the
>> last 10-14 days.
>>> I think that this should give the best test results but again my
>> budget may not allow me to go with all the different bulbs and I
>> may even have to use a mix of sunpulse and the hortilux bulbs that
>> I already have, but I really think that even that will show a
>> difference in the quality of the finished product.
>>> Please get back to me whenever you have a chance, and please do
>> think about this as poosed to just writing it off. As I said, I
>> will be purchasing your bulbs in the future anyways, I just see
>> this as a way for us to both benefit and help each other.
>>> Thanks for your time, sorry for such a long message ;) take care
Click to expand...

Light Bulb Scientist said:
Hello,
>>
>> Your email is lengthy and I'd welcome the chance to speak with you
>> by
>> phone. If you want to call me after 12:30 PST, I will be available
>> to
>> respond to your inquiries.
>>
Click to expand...

guerilla415 said:
> Hello ******* and thank you for the response. I know my first email was
> long and alll over the place so Id like tob start out slow if that
> works for you.
>
> I am unable to contact you by phone but I am more than willing to
> be patient if email communication is tough on your end.
>
> Id like to first lay out my experiment to you and then lets take it
> (or not) from there.
>
> I am planning on presenting an experiment to the online medical
> cannabis community regarding your PSMH bulbs versus the current
> standard of about 95% of my most respected friends - Hortilux Super
> HPS. The initial test will involve the flowering cycle alone but I
> hope to expand to the full cycle at a later time.
>
> I plan on setting up two seperate flowering areas, one covered in
> Hortilux Super HPS bulbs and the other with a mixture of 1-4k, 2-
> 3k, and 1-10k Sunpulse bulbs. The plants will be on a perpetual
> harvest schedual and on the side with the Sunpulse bulbs the plants
> will move from the 4k to the 3k to the 10k depending on varying
> lengths of the flower cycle.
>
> My goals are to determine what if any are the long term and short
> term benefits of PSMH bulbs and more specifically, Sunpulse brand
> bulbs. One of my main goals is to determine the Sunpulse Bulbs
> effect on trichome production, potency, flavor, smell and overall
> quality.
>
> These tests will be done as scientifically as I can manage which is
> really the reason why I am writing to your company. I am hoping
> that you can provide me with some help in any way in undertaking
> this vast project. In order to accurately determine the long term
> potential of the bulbs, this will have to be quite a long process,
> probably several years and it would be nice to have some...any help
> :)
>
> Any info, advice, suggestions, criticism or questions are extremely
> welcomed. I am very excited to test your products and have nothing
> but the highest hopes for the potential to not only increase
> quality but also efficiency in many people grow rooms in the future.
>
> Please take your time and again I apologize that speaking over the
> phone is not an option. Thank you again for your response and I
> look forward to hearing from you.
Click to expand...

Light Bulb Scientist said:
Hello,

I appreciate your desire to understand our technology and how it
compares to what was.

Anyone, not you specifically, who thinks HPS was ever good, has no grasp
of photobiology, plant science or light. HPS was never good for plants.
There's a white paper on SunPulse vs. HPS on our website, in the tech
info section I think will help you understand more.

You might also grab the Sept. 2011 copy of High Times and read an
article on light there written by a real photobiologist, so you have
another reference.

I also recommend reading a book called "Photosynthesis" by Hall and Rao.
Once you understand this data, you'll understand why HPS light was
always a problem and learn what plants really want. Plants and all
living things on Earth just want the Sun.

Our lamps have been out 13 years, and are sold internationally. The
"testing" phase of our development has long passed. I'd love for your MJ
community to understand the deeper science behind our lamps, but its a
lot of science and physics to absorb.

I can't call up Sony and ask them for a Playstation3 for me to critique.
If I asked them to send me one that I could "check out", and "let them
know what I think" in my "experimentation" - they'd tell me I was on
acid. The best engineers in the world, with the most advanced testing
gear in the world, did all the thinking so I don't have to.

We're plant people who make lighting for plants. I'd love to take the
time with you to educate you more on all of these things, but its
learned over years. If you're prepared for the journey to the truth, I
invite you along. I can show you what's mythology, whats misunderstood,
what works and doesn't work. But I can't do it in an email. You have to
call if you want to learn the deeper meanings. I teach and educate on
these sciences around the world at the highest levels. If you're in the
SF bay area, I could meet with you.

Since genetics are the random factor in all of this, results may vary.
There's no magic wand for shitty genetics, not even a lamp. The lamp is
one part of a larger equation, all things must be considered.

I want to encourage your desire to learn. If you have a science lab, a
quality light meter, a UV meter, a spectrometer, and other scientific
eqpt related to plasma and gas sciences, then you have the tools to
"test" our lamps. Without those tools, you'll be flying blind. As a
scientist, that's all I can say.

I've attached a couple of docs for you to check out. Let me know what
questions you have after reading more.
Click to expand...

guerilla415 said:
You know I would say that anyone, not just you specifically, who
thinks that photo-biology and expensive testing equipment in the
growing of medical cannabis is more important than the medicine
that is produced has no grasp of what is exactly going on.

I regret to inform you that less than 1% (one per-cent) of large
scale and small scale medical growers currently use your bulbs???
And all of this despite your very expensive promotion in High Times
and other places and all of these graphs and charts that show why
your lamp is purportedly better than an HPS at producing the most
efficiently grown medical cannabis that is possible at this time.

I simply offered a chance to SHOW what it is that you are speaking
about in your graphs and charts. Something that more of as person
who would purchase one of your bulbs would care to know than the
scientists that you have working on your bulbs.

I have actually found a new challenger to all of the current market
of "hydroponic" lights that are being offered, including HPS, MH,
PSMH, and LED's so I am hoping that my results can be even more
broad and geared towards forward thinking ideas instead of the
stagnant state that the industry is in right now.

I wish you luck and will still be testing your bulbs for their
actual effect on the quality of the finished as well as live
Cannabis plants for medical consumption. I am still of the opinion
that Pulse Start Metal Halide technology is a good step moving
forward to the future of indoor gardening.

Thank you for your time and detailed response. Take care and stay
safe.
Click to expand...
 
homebrew420

homebrew420

Member
I have always felt, never used them, Sunpulse was a strange and kinda hoaky company. I do to a degree understand the thinking and science behind these lights. It is just a huge investment for what seems to be a nominal gain. We as growers are not overly interested in spending a ton of cash to get only slightly better results. If it is night and day we are talking about I am all ears(and eyes, and nose, and palate), but truthfully I have my doubts. I hope this thread moves forward I would love to know the difference. Thanks

Peace
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
I have a test budroom and Sunpulse 4000k was tested against Phillips 4000K CMH and Agrosun red sodium. Three separate grows, same Northern Lights clone.

The Sunpulse and CMH could have been the same light, absolutely no difference. The sunpulse is digital and the arc wanders, doesn't affect output. The CMH is magnetic, no visible flicker. The light supplied to the plants has identical effects.

The HPS did not do so well, the buds took six days longer to mature, with leaf yellowing starting three weeks in.

Context: 56,000 lumen HPS, 59,000 lumen HID. Slight advantage to HID but all the other tests I've read have been 50,000 to 30,000 advantage HPS, this is way closer.

I have done three separate tests with HPS, trying to see what level does the least damage to the plants (about 4:1 MH) but every bulb from multivapor ($16) to mastercolor ($121) outgrows sodium in my testroom.

Which is possibly why Sunpulse feels another test would not be helpful. The answer to this one never varies.
 
stonedar

stonedar

Macro-aggressor
Veteran
their website sucks and so does their service. I tried to find out if I had a 2 lamp set up what 2 lamps to use and when to use them, I got a similar response telling me all about places I could go to educate myself on lighting. Wasn't even asking for free bulbs, I just had a spare 1000w ballast laying around and was considering buying a splitter from them. Told me that my questions were something that should be handled at the retail level. Blow me.
 
Dorje113

Dorje113

Member
I have tested MH + HPS vs. Only HPS in combination and in a dual arc bulb.

I agree that it is an advantage to supplement HPS but it is a trade off. Cannabis does great with only a Hortilux HPS during flowering, so when you go with a dual arc bulb or supplement with MH, you lose those lumens in the red spectrum that are best for flowering in trade for some blue light that increases quality... in some (probably most) strains. A friend grew the same strain twice, in a dialed hydro system, 1st using Horti HPS, then Horti Super-Blue MH. I forget what yields were (sorry) but he had samples tested and the Super Blue produced 10% higher THC levels than HPS.

Currently, I use a MH in between 2 HPS bulbs with wide dispersion Magnum hoods.

I have not done a real side-by-side but I have yields of 1.4 g/W using only HPS, it's only a guess, but I doubt any other bulb is going to produce yields like that. And very few people would notice the difference in quality, IMO, but I also have limited space and am running a lot of watts per area so I don't mind throwing in a MH.

So, I think light bulb scientist is right but to what degree this translated into real world results is not clear, from what I've seen I'd expect a drop in yield and a slight increase in quality.
 
krunchbubble

krunchbubble

Dear Haters, I Have So Much More For You To Be Mad
Veteran
TWO different SUNPULSE BULBS. YES, this was in an AIRCOOLED hood.

they burn stupid hot and don't do any better then the CHEAPEST hps on the planet.....

when i emailed the pics to them, they said IT WAS MY FAULT, even without asking what my aircooled hood was and what kind of exhaust for the hood.....



 
Last edited:
N

Nondual

Whoa those bulbs looks ugly! NEVER had any bulb I used fail in any way. The Sunpulse bulbs always caught me eye until Krunch's pics.
 
krunchbubble

krunchbubble

Dear Haters, I Have So Much More For You To Be Mad
Veteran
Nondual said:
Whoa those bulbs looks ugly! NEVER had any bulb I used fail in any way. The Sunpulse bulbs always caught me eye until Krunch's pics.
Click to expand...



i found out when i was changing them to new bulbs.....

what if i didnt change them and the bulbs fired like that for a few more, days, weeks or months?

ID BE IN JAIL FOR BURNING MY HOUSE DOWN WITH A GROW!!!!!
 
schwilly

schwilly

Member
I'm fairly traditional and use horti hps for flower. So I don't know much about bulbs.

Are sunpulse CMH? What are they?
 
schwilly

schwilly

Member
"an HPS lamp is approx. 2.2K,( or 22% of the Sun)"

does that make any sense?

from their site that doesn't really explain much
 
S

StellarP

Member
ICMag Donor
Should have asked what the ROI for advertising in a magazine read by 14 yr olds perusing at Barnes and Noble..........as opposed to a site comprised of growers (ie: customer base).

The cost of a bulb(s) vs. High Times advertising rates.....:chin: Fail !

Cheers
StellarP
 
guerilla415

guerilla415

Member
Thanks for al the input everyone. It seems like you are all seeing the same as me.

Thanks for posting up your pics krunch. Your thread and advice on them is what led me to request test bulbs straight from "the lab" as opposed to from a store just to take out any variable they could blame us for next.

No matter what you ask these guys its always the same condecending shit with copy and paste info from thier own site.

This guy refused to tell me the degrees that the "light bulbs scientists" at SunPulse have and as you can see, never answered any of my questions...even the simple ones like which reflectors work best with your bulbs, which ballasts are most compatible etc. etc.

Never gonna get no money from me, I would reccomend anyone interested in PSMH or advanced lighting do your homework and dont jump on the first new thing out there.

PSMH will only get better and my new infatuation is with plasma lights from Gavita and others...

http://www.monstergardens.com/grow-lighting/plasma-grow-lights.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=63

Sunpulse can keep the graphs, I still havent seen a good grow with em period...maybe one or two decent runs with those fuvcking spinner things but who knows if he really used em or not.

fuck it, theres too much work to do. hope this helped some of you steer clear of some bullshit.

P.S.
my local hydro guy says that they are also horrible when it comes to thier warranties, constantly blaming it on the customer or even the store owner if they cant blame the customer. Dont waste your money.
 
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