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All About THCV! Where To Find It? What does It Do? Research From Israel 4/22/2017

ok guys, little thought expirment for us with no thcv experience. Lets be old research folks. users have uplifting feelings of clear racy NLD "type" of experience hmm only thing that seperates it chemically (terps not being on the radar for most) is some thcv so draw a conclusion oh must be thcv but again likely just entourage effect. if u will, ie several compounds not 1 or 2 or 3 ie not thcv and just thc. Think similar thing happened (baring not confused about peaks of cbn and cbd) with cbd being sleepy and left longer increased cbd. only thought it increased cbd because effects became more narcotic when left later and thought cbd was causing that effect but more so cbn increased or higher ratio of certain "heavier terps" on more mature cannabis.

we get small amounts of info about cannabis and we attempt to extrapolate it to our experience which of course will change in this new era, but spreads alot of misinfo in its wake. one day we all will be able to like sam and try different cannibinoids and terpenes together in different ways and studies will be conducted to help to sort it all out scientifically. still the WLD cbd couch lock thing is kicking around which as most of us know here is hogwash, so hopefully again in this new era we wont jump on saying its 1 or 2 chemicals causing an effect but have this entourage effect term around until we infact do narrow down these profound and subtle differences we all have with dif chemotypes and not just set and setting and the smell of a really great time we had back when which then boosts our mood or thc and cbd ratio.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHGsgDLXCns

In this doc, the journalist takes intravenous cannabis compounds. It is interesting to see the results. The entourage effect definitely is a thing, but certain times it is over powered by chemical dominance.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
I also am not impressed with Steep Hill science.

So You say that unbiased science needs to be Pre 1980's?
I say THCV does not get you high because when 12 subjects including me, in a double blind test all felt the same way about THCV, and also with THC spiked with THCV. They all said that pure THCV is not active alone and THCV did not make pure THC stronger. They had all answered a 100 question Organoleptic survey before and after the tests. These were the same tests where we did prove that the right terpenes do modulate and a few could potentiate THC.
That and all recent studies published in the science journals say THCV is a CB1 antagonist, please show me the science that supports your view even if it is pre 1980's. Please list the references.

As for THCV making Cannabis highly psychoactive, I have never seen anything like that and I have been around THCV varieties for decades and bred the varieties to increase the THCV contents, and the higher they got the less active to get you high the Cannabis was, that simple.
I had a GC and a HPLC and I know what the THCV contents were. If they were a 10 or 20 to one ratio of THC to THCV the Cannabis will still get you high, similar to 10 to 20 to one ratios of THC to CBD, while a 10 or 20 to one ratio of THCV to THC reduces the THC effects considerably, as does a 10 to 20 to one ratio of CBD to THC, that will not make the THC stronger and few will say it does.

I know that even 1 to 1 ratios of THC to CBD Cannabis do get you high as that is what most afghan hash was, but the effects are different, longer onset then THC only Cannabis products, reduced peak experience, and the reduced effects last longer. But none of this means CBD gets you high, alone or with THC, it is the THC getting you high with the CBD modulating the effects, and not to make you higher, just different then THC alone.

I understand that some folks will disagree but until they have tried the tests that I described they are just having opinions not real science based on testing and science.

If anyone can describe a test to prove that THCV does get you high, or can make Cannabis stronger, please explain to me so I can try it, I still have a little pure THCV left frozen away.

I do know people that claimed CBD gets them high, but they are very few, while THCV was for decades believed to be stronger then THC until recently, and the THCV myths die slowly.

As for medical use, THCV may well have many uses, that is not my point, I am referring to THCV and if it gets you high or can make Cannabis more potent, that I can not agree with.

If THCV got people higher I would shout it from the roof tops, but I have never found that ever, that is the truth. In general I am in favor of helping folks get higher, it is what I love myself....
-SamS

Hey Sam,

I'm pretty sure I recall reading a paper/study where participants took thcv alone and experienced some effects. I think it was done in the UK. It was only a handful of participants and maybe not everyone experienced effects but some did. Also I think they weren't regular smokers or possibly virgin smokers ...

Another issue is ratio. Maybe at some magic ratio thcv will potentiate thc.

I also seem to recall something along the lines of thcv being a antagonist at low dose and agonist at higher doses.

Could just be me smoking too much weed but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.
 

cacannabinoids

New member
My Experiences With THCV

My Experiences With THCV

This thread is interesting and hits close to home for in a number of ways. I have been growing 7%+ THCV strains for the last few years r, AND I was CEO of Steep Hill when the "Sportscar of Cannabinoids" was written. I have also tried THCV in many combinations with other cannabinoids and terpenes, both as a whole plant extract, and at various stages of extraction and distillation. As a THCV retail products company, I have also had the opportunity to garner a good amount of feedback from various individuals who have sought me out, or bought my Doug's Varin concentrates in the East Bay, CA. After now solving the puzzle with respect to California cannabis licensing, our products are returning to the shelves on a broad basis next month.

The Doug's Varin concentrates are approx 26% THCV and 35% THCV, so approx 1 : 1.3. They are also a blend of multiple fractions that range both higher and lower with respect to total cannabinoid content.

The Sportscar article was written by Kymron DeCesare of SHL, and probably reflects his experience with a concentrate of his own making. It was probably a whole plant extract, and it seems doubtful to me that he would have had access to pure THCV at that time. However, his description correlates pretty tightly with the effects of a Doug's Varin whole plant extract. This article has gotten more than its fair share of mileage, due in part to the dearth of available THCV related information. The cannabis media can be somewhat lazy, and in this case has become an echo chamber for the ideas espoused in this article, whether they are correct or not. This article may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV. It's notable that the Sportscar article was originally posted mid 2014, so it's kind of outdated.

I am no longer affiliated with Steep Hill. I left in December 2015. I did however test with them for long while, since they were the only lab that was able to quantitate THCVA, and that's obviously critical to analyzing fresh plant material high in THCV. Nowadays, the THCVA standards are commercially available, so other labs have added this analyte.

All of the older tests of high THCV strains dating back into the 80's or even the 90's were probably done with a gas chromatograph (i'm guessing), which would have degraded the amount of THCV overall since significant amounts of THCVA would decarboxylate, and also degrade into other various compounds. My point here is that liquid chromatograph is the preferred testing tech for this, so if you compare backwards in time, at some point you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

With respect to THCV and it's effects, it is generally correct that the less THC is present, the overall effects and duration of the high will be reduced. But THCV also dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture. This I know from significant amounts of personal experience. I try not bias other people experiences, so I'll leave it at that and hopefully some of you may end up trying it and providing untainted feedback.

Here is some random guy on Reddit who bought my product before CA state licensing kicked in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/eldertrees/comments/7ke5ad/i_tried_dougs_varin_a_rare_highthcv_strain/


Here is a link to my site.

www.californiacannabinoids.com
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
If you want to eliminate any effects that the terpenes may contribute to the THC/THCV flowers or concentrate, you need to try 100% pure THC and 100% THCV in different ratios to find proof that the THCV is making the THC effects stronger or better.
I have done this with 12 subjects and none reported that THCV made THC stronger in fact they all reported the opposite. These were double blind tests.

If the effects you reported "may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV" then where did the effects come from? I would guess terpenes.

We did our testing with both HPLC and GC, I prefer GC as that is closer to what a smoker gets as the heat of smoking does destroy some of the Cannabinoids, similar to what a GC does to analysis of the Cannabinoids. With oral THCV an HPLC might be better, as long as the THCV is not THCVA as the acid forms of the Cannabinoids may and do have different effects from the neutral Cannabinoids like THC or THCV. We did test both THCVA and THCV neither helped make THC stronger or better, we only did smoking, or vaping in a Volcano tests. We did not do oral tests. Our testing was done around 2000.

I think you are presuming it was the THCV that "dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture."
I suggest you try 100% pure THC with 100% pure THCV and then report the results, we found the more THCV the less strong the THC effects were.

I am not trying to say that THCV has no medical use, I am refering to recreational use.
For example CBD modifies THC but not in a positive way for most folks that want to get higher.
CBD delays onset of the THC effects, reduces peak experiences, and makes the reduced effects last longer. Some like this but it does not make THC stronger. THCV is similar.
When we developed THCV only varieties the higher the THCV and the less THC the worse the smoke was for recreational use, we all hated the THCV only varieites they were like smoking hemp. They did have almost a 100 to 1 ratio of THCV to THC, much higher in THCV and much much lower in THC then your variety. Even a concentrate would be less then 1% THC.
We did get high from THCV/THC varieties that were closer to 1:1 but you also get high if you smoke 1:1 CBD/THC varieties but no one or few think CBD makes THC stronger or better for recreational use unless THC only varieites do get them to high and paranoid, and they use the CBD/THC to prevent that. That I understand, as long as they do not claim that CBD gets them higher.

On your WWW site you say:
"THCV Is Different From the Stuff That Gets You "High"
In small amounts, THCV in its pure form is not psychoactive - it's different from ∆9THC, which is the main psychoactive component of most cannabis products."


I agree but also say THCV in larger amounts also does not get you high.

When you said on your WWW site: "THCV : The Unicorn of Cannabinoids
THCV is one of the rarest cannabinoids in the market today. According to a licensed California lab, out of 100,000 samples, only a single strain ever tested over 3% THCV: this unique varietal expresses a 1:1 ratio of THCA:THCVA - something never before experienced by the modern cannabis consumer. THCV is the next frontier in cannabinoids."


The lab may well say that but I developed a THCV variety from scratch that was over 10% and with almost no THC more then a decade before this. We licensed the variety to GW Pharmaceuticals.
-SamS


This thread is interesting and hits close to home for in a number of ways. I have been growing 7%+ THCV strains for the last few years r, AND I was CEO of Steep Hill when the "Sportscar of Cannabinoids" was written. I have also tried THCV in many combinations with other cannabinoids and terpenes, both as a whole plant extract, and at various stages of extraction and distillation. As a THCV retail products company, I have also had the opportunity to garner a good amount of feedback from various individuals who have sought me out, or bought my Doug's Varin concentrates in the East Bay, CA. After now solving the puzzle with respect to California cannabis licensing, our products are returning to the shelves on a broad basis next month.

The Doug's Varin concentrates are approx 26% THCV and 35% THCV, so approx 1 : 1.3. They are also a blend of multiple fractions that range both higher and lower with respect to total cannabinoid content.

The Sportscar article was written by Kymron DeCesare of SHL, and probably reflects his experience with a concentrate of his own making. It was probably a whole plant extract, and it seems doubtful to me that he would have had access to pure THCV at that time. However, his description correlates pretty tightly with the effects of a Doug's Varin whole plant extract. This article has gotten more than its fair share of mileage, due in part to the dearth of available THCV related information. The cannabis media can be somewhat lazy, and in this case has become an echo chamber for the ideas espoused in this article, whether they are correct or not. This article may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV. It's notable that the Sportscar article was originally posted mid 2014, so it's kind of outdated.

I am no longer affiliated with Steep Hill. I left in December 2015. I did however test with them for long while, since they were the only lab that was able to quantitate THCVA, and that's obviously critical to analyzing fresh plant material high in THCV. Nowadays, the THCVA standards are commercially available, so other labs have added this analyte.

All of the older tests of high THCV strains dating back into the 80's or even the 90's were probably done with a gas chromatograph (i'm guessing), which would have degraded the amount of THCV overall since significant amounts of THCVA would decarboxylate, and also degrade into other various compounds. My point here is that liquid chromatograph is the preferred testing tech for this, so if you compare backwards in time, at some point you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

With respect to THCV and it's effects, it is generally correct that the less THC is present, the overall effects and duration of the high will be reduced. But THCV also dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture. This I know from significant amounts of personal experience. I try not bias other people experiences, so I'll leave it at that and hopefully some of you may end up trying it and providing untainted feedback.

Here is some random guy on Reddit who bought my product before CA state licensing kicked in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/eldertrees/comments/7ke5ad/i_tried_dougs_varin_a_rare_highthcv_strain/


Here is a link to my site.

www.californiacannabinoids.com
 
Last edited:

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Well your BS radar must need retuning.

"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.
picture.php

So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
picture.php
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.
View Image
So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
View Image

He clearly states concentrate/extract.

I think the Dougs Varin was around 7% thcv 6%thc in the flowering tops.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
 

cacannabinoids

New member
"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.
View Image
So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
View Image

It's not like I don't have about a million test results. LOL. As was claimed, we are talking concentrates here. Most the the DV cuts are in the approx 7% THC and 7% THCV range.

I have no idea what Bre-X is, but understand that you are really just totally wrong on this one.
 

cacannabinoids

New member
If you want to eliminate any effects that the terpenes may contribute to the THC/THCV flowers or concentrate, you need to try 100% pure THC and 100% THCV in different ratios to find proof that the THCV is making the THC effects stronger or better.
I have done this with 12 subjects and none reported that THCV made THC stronger in fact they all reported the opposite. These were double blind tests.

If the effects you reported "may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV" then where did the effects come from? I would guess terpenes.

We did our testing with both HPLC and GC, I prefer GC as that is closer to what a smoker gets as the heat of smoking does destroy some of the Cannabinoids, similar to what a GC does to analysis of the Cannabinoids. With oral THCV an HPLC might be better, as long as the THCV is not THCVA as the acid forms of the Cannabinoids may and do have different effects from the neutral Cannabinoids like THC or THCV. We did test both THCVA and THCV neither helped make THC stronger or better, we only did smoking, or vaping in a Volcano tests. We did not do oral tests. Our testing was done around 2000.

I think you are presuming it was the THCV that "dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture."
I suggest you try 100% pure THC with 100% pure THCV and then report the results, we found the more THCV the less strong the THC effects were.

I am not trying to say that THCV has no medical use, I am refering to recreational use.
For example CBD modifies THC but not in a positive way for most folks that want to get higher.
CBD delays onset of the THC effects, reduces peak experiences, and makes the reduced effects last longer. Some like this but it does not make THC stronger. THCV is similar.
When we developed THCV only varieties the higher the THCV and the less THC the worse the smoke was for recreational use, we all hated the THCV only varieites they were like smoking hemp. They did have almost a 100 to 1 ratio of THCV to THC, much higher in THCV and much much lower in THC then your variety. Even a concentrate would be less the 1% THC.
We did get high from THCV/THC varieties that were closer to 1:1 but you also get high if you smoke 1:1 CBD/THC varieties but no one or few think CBD makes THC stronger or better for recreational use unless THC only varieites do get them to high and paranoid, and they use the CBD/THC to prevent that. That I understand, as long as they do not claim that CBD gets them higher.

On your WWW site you say:
"THCV Is Different From the Stuff That Gets You "High"
In small amounts, THCV in its pure form is not psychoactive - it's different from ∆9THC, which is the main psychoactive component of most cannabis products."


I agree but also say THCV in larger amounts also does not get you high.

When you said on your WWW site: "THCV : The Unicorn of Cannabinoids
THCV is one of the rarest cannabinoids in the market today. According to a licensed California lab, out of 100,000 samples, only a single strain ever tested over 3% THCV: this unique varietal expresses a 1:1 ratio of THCA:THCVA - something never before experienced by the modern cannabis consumer. THCV is the next frontier in cannabinoids."


The lab may well say that but I developed a THCV variety from scratch that was over 10% and with almost no THC more then a decade before this. We licensed the variety to GW Pharmaceuticals.
-SamS


I'm not really arguing with you. We spoke on the phone once in 2008, although you may not recall. At the time we agreed that Sigma THC standards were off the mark. Anyhow,

On the psychoactivity of THCV,

There is obviously this published study which has been around. You don't hear me arguing that it gets you "higher."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26577065

I would add that 10 or 12 subjects for a DBP study is a bit on the low side. I am certain though that THCV itself impacts the physiological response to THC when present. I absolutely have tried pure THC and THCV in a mixture. I have never said it increases the high (since I almost sense you are responding as if I said that). It does however change it. I don't think this is particularly surprising given that it is a CB1 receptor antagonist. If you are saying that you don't think THC feels different in an entourage with THCV, then it feels when consumed alone, in that case we have a disagreement.

But not every cannabinoid need get you high anyway.

On the website, the "Unicorn" statement and claim was not actually written by me (the developer just put it there), and the lab statement will be removed, since even when I was CEO we saw at least a few different high THCV strains above 3%.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
The lab may well say that but I developed a THCV variety from scratch that was over 10% and with almost no THC more then a decade before this. We licensed the variety to GW Pharmaceuticals.
-SamS

I think I remember reading about that one. A shade under 90% thcv of total cannabinoids?

Strange thing was it was given a M37 designation or similar. Wouldn't be from SSSC stock by any chance?

Also an old study suggests increased temps gave rise to increased thcv content. You didn't happen to have to do any environmental tricks to coax the thcv levels up? Would we still get that ratio grown outdoors in Northern Europe?

Btw what was the highest thcv ratio of total cannabinoids you could obtain in a stable seed line?
 

cacannabinoids

New member
I think I remember reading about that one. A shade under 90% thcv of total cannabinoids?

Strange thing was it was given a M37 designation or similar. Wouldn't be from SSSC stock by any chance?

Also an old study suggests increased temps gave rise to increased thcv content. You didn't happen to have to do any environmental tricks to coax the thcv levels up? Would we still get that ratio grown outdoors in Northern Europe?

Btw what was the highest thcv ratio of total cannabinoids you could obtain in a stable seed line?

A paper entitled "The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. (V)- regulation of the propyl-pentyl cannabinoid ratio, completion of a genetic model," is where you saw this info. I have a PDF of the actual paper, but can't find a working link anywhere online.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
Thanks Doug!

I don't suppose you're able to share any info about how your DV plant came about and your thoughts on propyl cannabinoid inheritance?

Was it confirmed to be under control of only one locus in the above paper? Or was it 2 or more loci and possibly environmental control too?

Did you ever try to breed an essentially pure propyl cannabinoid line? Any luck?

Maybe call that one Di's Varin.

Good luck with the biz!
 

troutman

Seed Whore
A paper entitled "The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. (V)- regulation of the propyl-pentyl cannabinoid ratio, completion of a genetic model," is where you saw this info. I have a PDF of the actual paper, but can't find a working link anywhere online.

I can find almost anything if it's online. I have my secrets. :peek:

Here's the HTML version and you can download the PDF if you want.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10681-016-1721-3
 

cacannabinoids

New member
Thanks Doug!

I don't suppose you're able to share any info about how your DV plant came about and your thoughts on propyl cannabinoid inheritance?

Was it confirmed to be under control of only one locus in the above paper? Or was it 2 or more loci and possibly environmental control too?

Did you ever try to breed an essentially pure propyl cannabinoid line? Any luck?

Maybe call that one Di's Varin.

Good luck with the biz!

I'm not Doug, but Doug is an owner of our company.

I know there are at least 2 loci controlling it propyl cannabinoid production.

We are actively breeding it now toward multiple ends, including maximizing propyl production.

Doug will probably publish an article soon talking about the events surrounding his discovery of this pheno.
 
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