Honduran Landrace

TychoMonolyth · Mar 13, 2019

I brought about 20 Honduran "Trash" seeds back home a year ago. These grow on an island that other weed will not grow (I'm told), but these do. Boy... are they ever hard to grow. I popped and grew about 500 "normal" plants last year. I started early this year and the start of my seedling farm is going well. But these guys are killing me. Getting them to germinate is a struggle. But I managed to get some going.

I started the first 4 and the minute I saw the first true leaves, I put them under 12/12. They just stopped growing and died. I started another 4 only this time I put them under 16/8 (even though 12/12 is close to natural for them). Dead after the first true leaves. So I tried to replicate the ecosystem found on the island. Frequent rain, but dryer than you'd expect. Dead. This is my third go at them and it's getting late. I want pollen and seed from them, but I'm running out of time.

I've tried peat and coco pots. The seedlings never get over 1cm tall and leaves *just clear the soil, and root inspection after death shows only 2cm of growth.

I'm on the verge of buying aquarium ocean salt water to mist the top from the local pet store. Maybe I should try putting the sprouts directly in supersoil since they grow in a jungle type environment.

Any takers?

Waiting for this puppy to suffer the same fate.

romanoweed · Mar 13, 2019

looks like you watered the plant quiet strong in that picture. I suggest watring quiet soft, and also it looks like you pressed the soil to much together, or am i wrong.. air is crutial i heard otherwise roots can rot. depth of soil not to small, cause standing water also causing rootrotting. When a plant dies of rootrot it just falls down after 2 3 centimeters height.. sonds little bit like your symptom, but no garanty. Then normally no suplements needed in early stage(or how are those called?). Let water sit 3 4 days, to neautralize is also very good and a save practice.
I just write all those things, not having an idea if you are aware just in case. im not professional, little exp. but thats what my mind and google sais. just consider lanraces are MUCH more mistretable than any haze or even a well behaving swazi you normally buy, probably some things , wich never made problems, make probs now..
but shure its very likly something in the enviroment, the soil wich is just unusual for this land racer

but again letting earth dry out more and not press it to hard/higher volume, so no standing water, is my strongest bet to be maybe something to try if you havent
And take some soil out of natural enviroment, try that out. i often hear amzone soil is very poor in indegrients.

romanoweed · Mar 21, 2019

whas up https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92990

SolarLogos · Mar 21, 2019

TychoMonolyth said:
I brought about 20 Honduran "Trash" seeds back home a year ago. These grow on an island that other weed will not grow (I'm told), but these do. Boy... are they ever hard to grow. I popped and grew about 500 "normal" plants last year. I started early this year and the start of my seedling farm is going well. But these guys are killing me. Getting them to germinate is a struggle. But I managed to get some going.

I started the first 4 and the minute I saw the first true leaves, I put them under 12/12. They just stopped growing and died. I started another 4 only this time I put them under 16/8 (even though 12/12 is close to natural for them). Dead after the first true leaves. So I tried to replicate the ecosystem found on the island. Frequent rain, but dryer than you'd expect. Dead. This is my third go at them and it's getting late. I want pollen and seed from them, but I'm running out of time.

I've tried peat and coco pots. The seedlings never get over 1cm tall and leaves *just clear the soil, and root inspection after death shows only 2cm of growth.

I'm on the verge of buying aquarium ocean salt water to mist the top from the local pet store. Maybe I should try putting the sprouts directly in supersoil since they grow in a jungle type environment.

Any takers?

Waiting for this puppy to suffer the same fate.
View Image

Is it not producing a necessary enzyme, hormone or whatever it depends on as the plant emerges? I don't know or study the science of germinating, but I've read about some tricks for starting old seeds that die off once they start to emerge from the ground. I've had good success on seeds that did not germinate by letting them dry back out, then scarifying them. This lets the liquid in to germinate if the seed is really sealed off from outside moisture/water. I've also read of germinating in a solution of coconut water, kelp, and fulvic acid. You can also sprout other seeds and juice the sprouts when they open their first set of leaves and water your little ones, in case they are lacking in a necessary enzyme or something. Just some thoughts. I would love to see how this turns out, could be very educational.
Good luck TM, hope to see some P1,2,3... seeds in the future. Also curious to see how they compare to my Hondurans.
Subbed.
Peace, God bless

Cvh · Mar 21, 2019

Sounds a bit like 'Damping Off' to me.

Try to germinate them in seedling soil and don't keep them too wet.
Start with fertilizer or transplant them to a rich soil when they have their 3th set of true leaves.

Lester Beans · Mar 21, 2019

I would try rockwool or rapid rooter in a heat controlled dome.

Agreed that soil looks too wet and two compact.

I think you will find humidity is what needs to be correct.

romanoweed · Mar 21, 2019

I wanna ad regarding moisture: i acctually wrote it bit special. Easier to understand its like that. Cannabis doesent like standing Water, otherwise rootrot, thats main lecture, so for safetyreasons try bigger container.. And dont let it be wet all the time. So after every Watering wich you dont perform like fullydraining, just moist, let it get quiet dry every time, so Earth on surace is nearly dry, then Water again. Your Seedlings NEED Air to to breath, if drained too much they wont even continu growth for that moment. And again dont press Earth to much, dont press it to hard, more like you grab something or clump something together softly, just enough so that when the earth is drying everything holds mainly together and there are not tooooo much cracks building, so the Tap-root isnt exposed to free air then (its not even sooooo bad if that happens, just water it again at evening)

But again i heard about problems with groing pure Landraces outside their climate 2 times.. they did not perform well, or perform at all (sprout) outside normal clima ,thats why i linked that thread, cause it might be the soil components...

therevverend · Mar 21, 2019

I like the dampening off idea which is a common problem, usually fungal. I had trouble with DJ Short stock one time, same thing that's happening to you. Perfect conditions, the plants would sprout and look healthy. When I'd look closely the leaves and 2/3 of the stem looked fine. Right next to the ground the bottom 1/3 had 'dampened off'. Like the stem had withered and died. No nutrients traveling up the stock to the plant. I'd try everything, keep the leaves moist and they'd live for quite a while but the stem couldn't regenerate.

I've had this happen with starts in the window sill, lots of cloudy wet weather when I was running a heat mat. Plant was reaching for the light but not getting enough. I've also seen it with very intense light for a seedling. Strong bright light and too rich of a dirt mix.

My guess is that it's fungal, microbes in your environment the plants aren't adapted to. Make your mix almost all vermiculite or something similar, small particles. Perlite would work but it's a bit chunky. Sterile with very little to no organic matter. Try only feeding them a weak seaweed solution if you have it. Nothing else.

It'll drain really well, should dry out every 12 hours or so. That's what you want dry/wet cycles. I'd use a mister and spritz frequently. Only deep water when the mix looks like it's drying out. Hope they work out for you the strain sounds interesting.

SolarLogos · Mar 21, 2019

therevverend said:
I like the dampening off idea which is a common problem, usually fungal. I had trouble with DJ Short stock one time, same thing that's happening to you. Perfect conditions, the plants would sprout and look healthy. When I'd look closely the leaves and 2/3 of the stem looked fine. Right next to the ground the bottom 1/3 had 'dampened off'. Like the stem had withered and died. No nutrients traveling up the stock to the plant. I'd try everything, keep the leaves moist and they'd live for quite a while but the stem couldn't regenerate.

I've had this happen with starts in the window sill, lots of cloudy wet weather when I was running a heat mat. Plant was reaching for the light but not getting enough. I've also seen it with very intense light for a seedling. Strong bright light and too rich of a dirt mix.

My guess is that it's fungal, microbes in your environment the plants aren't adapted to. Make your mix almost all vermiculite or something similar, small particles. Perlite would work but it's a bit chunky. Sterile with very little to no organic matter. Try only feeding them a weak seaweed solution if you have it. Nothing else.

It'll drain really well, should dry out every 12 hours or so. That's what you want dry/wet cycles. I'd use a mister and spritz frequently. Only deep water when the mix looks like it's drying out. Hope they work out for you the strain sounds interesting.

I think you nailed it theRevverend. I've not dealt with it, but I knew I had seen a link before: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=353375
Peace, God bless

TychoMonolyth · Apr 20, 2019

Eureka!

Eureka!

Ok. I tried to replicate the native soil and climate as best I can remember. I started over with a super light very hydrophobic soil with a good helping of compost from my garden bin. Pinch of Epsom salt, 5.15.5 Water with ph of 5.5 and let them work for it, then a good downpour like it does there, then starve some more. I even made a little red bricks dust for it. Lol

So far so good!

Thanks to everyone for the input.

troutman · Apr 20, 2019

The pH may be low in their native soil.

But I would raise it to something like 6.2-6.5 for better growth.

Those seedlings look like they should be transplanted soon. :tiphat:

TychoMonolyth · Apr 21, 2019

Yep. Have the pots sitting there for them.

TanzanianMagic · Apr 21, 2019

TychoMonolyth said:
Ok. I tried to replicate the native soil and climate as best I can remember. I started over with a super light very hydrophobic soil with a good helping of compost from my garden bin. Pinch of Epsom salt, 5.15.5 Water with ph of 5.5 and let them work for it, then a good downpour like it does there, then starve some more. I even made a little red bricks dust for it. Lol

So far so good!
View Image

Thanks to everyone for the input.

This is the problem: low pH.

Your soil pH in organics should be around 7.0, not 5.5.

Low soil pH also causes aluminum toxicity, which affects root growth.

I would use the same soil, but add a tablespoon per gallon of magnesium lime, add lots of water and then let it soak for a week, or better a month before use.

Your problems should end. Good luck with the Honduran strain preservation.

Iowa Grown · Apr 21, 2019

Plants from that region predominantly live in rhizosphere soil, so they love a carbon rich soil. I have an old Colombian Gold gal that will simply refuse to grow nicely if she doesn't have a good amount of active carbon in her soil. I use 64:1 mix, 64 parts soil, 1 part active carbon whenever I grow her out. I have been told on a few occasions it has something to do with the rhizosphere soil that exists in that part of the world. A lot of the plants that live in that region through their root microbiome community secrete high amounts of carbon and nitrogen, and even more carbon compounds through their root systems. So if a plant from that region doesn't get what they have grown accustom to they will not ever grow in the most optimal way. As a side note... if you don't want to use active carbon you can also plant something like sweet clover in the same pot that you will grow the cannabis plant from that region in and it will thrive in that pot as sweet clover is one of them plants that creates a dynamic microbiome community with lots of carbon and nitrogen being secreted through its root system into the soil it is living in.

TychoMonolyth · Apr 21, 2019

Is active carbon the same as Biochar?

The island I found this strain on, and where imported brick weed won't grow (apparently), has soil that is acidic (5.5-6) with high clay content but with good aeration. Phosphates are all over the map from one spot to another but are generally very high. Phosphate binds to molybdenum in this soil giving it a blue hue.

I'll be mixing coco coir, perlite, compost 1:3 for the transplant. Should I add biochar or would a piece of activated carbon pre-filter be better?

troutman · Apr 23, 2019

It's possible the phosphate level there is from guano from Seabirds eating fish.

I don't know much about Biochar.

BTW: Is there any aroma to these plants yet?

Maybe a stem rub could help with this before they flower.

TychoMonolyth · Apr 23, 2019

Leaves don't smell, but a little rub of the stem surprised me. Never smelled a sweet weed before. Not skunky at all. More sweet earth and ripe fruit? Strange, but nice aroma.

bsgospel · Apr 23, 2019

That pointed me in a cool direction

"Phosphomolybdic is used as a stain for developing thin-layer chromatography plates,[3] staining phenolics, hydrocarbon waxes, alkaloids, and steroids. Conjugated unsaturated compounds reduce PMA to molybdenum blue. The color intensifies with increasing number of double bonds in the molecule being stained.[4]" - wiki

I hope those plants keep rocking. Looks like you got past the hard part. I wonder how they'll take to cloning (if you end up taking cuts). Cheers

SolarLogos · Apr 23, 2019

TychoMonolyth said:
Leaves don't smell, but a little rub of the stem surprised me. Never smelled a sweet weed before. Not skunky at all. More sweet earth and ripe fruit? Strange, but nice aroma.

I'm very interested in seeing how your Honduran's that you brought back do. Honduran is my go-to morning coffee smoke when I need to organize and get things done without getting lazy or realizing I've been spacing out all morning.
I've got a Malawi x Honduran OD that I'm giving another week before the chop. I'm excited about her because unlike her sisters, she is all Honduran: leaves, branching, flower structure/formation, calyxes and smell-not a hint of Malawi in her smell, but much frostier than her mom or any other Honduran's I've grown.
Good luck my friend,

Peace, God bless

Hookahhead · Apr 29, 2019

Following along, I've been interested in these since you talked about them last year

Honduran Landrace

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