RDWC, DWC sterile research - my findings, some Q/A

LostTribe said:

First of all DWC is complete shit for growing if you are not able to provide constant ac to the area where your growing. If you have rot you have some nasty stuff going on due to hot rez temps period.

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Thanks for your input, but I have covered ALL bases.
Rez temps are between 18-20C (AC), I have areation fit for jacuzzi. Did extensive research on microbe teas, did everything. Now it is time to go nuclear. I have redox/opr controllers, now just need to find the right mV level not to kill the plants and to not allow stuff to live in the res.

D350 said:

Thanks for your input, but I have covered ALL bases.
Rez temps are between 18-20C (AC), I have areation fit for jacuzzi. Did extensive research on microbe teas, did everything. Now it is time to go nuclear. I have redox/opr controllers, now just need to find the right mV level not to kill the plants and to not allow stuff to live in the res.

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Interesting thread. Many of us have been here and always new things to try and learn. I agree the pool shock is a great idea. Basically Clear Rez product in its commercial name and application and price. As others said ebb and flow is fantastic upgrade from DWC and was my answer to eliminate rot I could never fix in DWC. DWC to Ebb and flow is the answer for many. If your going to force yourself DWC your on the right path. Low Temps and many many chemicals to fight natures natural course. Or never-ending teas to fight fire with fire.

Hey im curious how the orp controller worked for you?

I'm also curious. Limping through to the finish line of my first dwc grow after getting slimed early flower. I'm using beneficial tea at this point but don't have confidence I won't run into more problems down the road with future grows (based on other people's experience with dwc).

Im debating switching to coco for my next grow but I've invested so much into pumps and a chiller that I'm not willing to give up just yet. If the nuclear approach works well, I may have to go that route.

I always experienced some level of slime until I started using dm gold zone. Something like 30 bucks a liter, but worth it IMO. 1 ml per gallon, no need for any meters. I'll go 9 weeks in my veg buckets with relatively high water temps, and my air stones look as fresh coming out as they did going in. I almost feel wasteful tossing them. I'll run hot water through my buckets every harvest, but there isn't anything in there anymore that needs any wiping or scrubbing.

With a lot of experimenting I found that oxidizers popped out of solution with different additives.

For example, Gh's pH down caused 2 ppm chlorine to go to zero. While Advanced nutrients pH adjusted water did not affect this. The MSDS of GH's pH down show it has ammonia and citric acid, which both react with chlorine to either yield chlorine gas (which bubbles off) or chloramine which is 100 time less effective an oxidizer.

Also, anything with ammonia (pretty much any base nutrient) reacts with your oxidizers to form oxidized molecules like chloramine with chlorine products; I would guess the result of peroxide would be ammonium hydroxide of sorts. Not sure. Still, the conclusion is to circulate your oxidizer upon tank refill, but before additives or pH adjustment. This will allow your ORP to remain effective long enough to kill of spore, etc.

Moral of the story: run all oxidizer of choice before additives so their oxidative potential will be focused on sterilizing the plastics and root system for several minutes (the time require to destabilize cell walls of spores, bacteria & fungi), then add you additive in order of least reactive. So I do part B (or PK, bloom, flores, etc) products before micro or part A nutrients which tend to have your ammonia. Then part B (or micro/ammonia containing nutrient), then pH adjustment last.

In my experiments I noticed silicate didn't react with chlroine, nore did GH bloom, or hormex (my fav cloning hormone).

You're fighting biological issues. Without the contamination in the water you're using you'd have great grows happening.

Solution:
- Sterilize all equipment which will come in contact with the nutrient solution
- Clean your water source of the contamination causing your issue

Complete sterilization starts with identifying what exactly is growing. Have a mycology lab at a Uni nearby? Take them a sample. Algae is physan-20 or chlorine? Bacterial will require an antibiotic treatment, look in the fish industry.

Clean water comes from R/O machines, UV as well if the straight R/O still isn't clean.

DWC is beautiful when conditions are right, clean water is an absolute must. Even one drop of tap water (rinsing a meter or piece of equipment) will re-contaminate the system. 15 years of DWC and still loving it.

Douglas.Curtis said:

You're fighting biological issues. Without the contamination in the water you're using you'd have great grows happening.

Solution:
- Sterilize all equipment which will come in contact with the nutrient solution
- Clean your water source of the contamination causing your issue

Complete sterilization starts with identifying what exactly is growing. Have a mycology lab at a Uni nearby? Take them a sample. Algae is physan-20 or chlorine? Bacterial will require an antibiotic treatment, look in the fish industry.

Clean water comes from R/O machines, UV as well if the straight R/O still isn't clean.

DWC is beautiful when conditions are right, clean water is an absolute must. Even one drop of tap water (rinsing a meter or piece of equipment) will re-contaminate the system. 15 years of DWC and still loving it.

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No offense , but there`s a reason why RDWC has ALWAYS been called "Recirculating Death Without Cause" by commercial growers over the yrs , and it`s because of all the bells and whistles it takes to make it a "survival system" while praying for none of the limiting factors to take hold and kill the whole crop.....that said....

Nothing but respect due to you DC for staying with a setup and dialing it for 15 yrs , but the times , they are a changing bro.....

PPK`s grow the big plants with NONE of the bells and whistles with NO chance of root rot and or instant crop death RDWC is so well known for...and....

Plants fed multiple times a day in short increments with no chillers , no sterile solution , no nothing except a container on top of another with the rootzone "above" the bottom container that uses a wick to supply the upper rootzone with moisture in case of power outages as a failsafe device for big plant needs.......

Multi feeds growing up to 4 lb plants strain dependent of course , but nonetheless , no need to risk the death of your crops and lose hard earned cash trying to go bigger and better....

I tried it 1 time and grew a 3+ lb`er but I`ve grown a plant or 2 in my day and not a typical example....again...

Just trying to help .....DHF.......

I didn't mention I don't like RDWC at all, definitely prone to bacteriological explosions. Seriously don't recommend it for cannabis for a variety of reasons.

What I stated is true for DWC though. I run one rez per light DWC tubs, with clean r/o water, and have done so in multiple states with a large variety of different water supplies. With R/O water, DWC works exactly the same, in every location, unless the water is getting contaminated (in my case it was also the tap water). One of the worst years growing, until I figured it out.

Never tried PPK, not a big fan of medium based grows. Perhaps I'll look into it some day.

Here is the final follow up:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=332696

D350 said:

Covered all bases: UV-ed RO, tea by RichieRich, tea by microbeman, you should see my collection of air pumps, water pumps, air stones, air lifts, venturi bubblers....
There are anaerobic pockets formed in my root zone (mostly in the hydroton), where the infection starts around week4 of flower.
Some strains are more resistant, some less. AK47 fought a good battle, but lose...
Tried before with sterile and it did not work, I'm very sure it did not work because no ORP meter, just adding some bleach is not enough.

As the shocking goes, instead of running high ORP levels constanly, I plan to rise it for a short time, let's say weekly, just to kill the spores also, not just developed organisms. Plants can take it - although I'll let you know, what will happen in week or so...

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Read your first 2 paragraphs. If you have anaerobic zones you don't have enough oxygen. Every square inch of your reservoir should have turbulent bubbles. And if it's forming above the water in your hydroton balls add a fan blowing directly down on your hydroton balls. Anaerobic areas are a breeding ground. It's like getting drywall wet if you put a fan on it it will just dry out if you don't put a fan on it mold begins to grow. If you let a wet area become stagnant you get problems. You don't need all them chemicals air flow and oxygen is all you need.

Queef said:

Read your first 2 paragraphs. If you have anaerobic zones you don't have enough oxygen. Every square inch of your reservoir should have turbulent bubbles. And if it's forming above the water in your hydroton balls add a fan blowing directly down on your hydroton balls. Anaerobic areas are a breeding ground. It's like getting drywall wet if you put a fan on it it will just dry out if you don't put a fan on it mold begins to grow. If you let a wet area become stagnant you get problems. You don't need all them chemicals air flow and oxygen is all you need.

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Solved with ORp controller and pool shock.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=332696

Thanks anyway.

I am just about to start Snypes undercurrent RDWC method. The only time I had solution go bad was when light came in contact with stagnant water in flood and drain. Found out that HID passes right through PVC. I solved it then by blocking all light, and using heisenberg tea. Hope I do not have to post here.

I am doing flood and drain now with no problems, so really do not expect it with RDWC. Snype seemed to think the volume of water recirculating was almost sufficient without air stones.

Really do not want to go sterile, since myc produces much better plants. Will post here either way, in a month or two.