What process will create vape oil?

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 5, 2017

https://youtu.be/fYMCA_Tg_vk

Please take a look at this short, well produced video by Endoca. This is the video that got me interested in pursuing all this.

Tell me what he does right and what you would change or what steps you would add, staying with his system of using grain alcohol for extraction.

Thanks!

SkyHighLer · Oct 5, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
https://youtu.be/fYMCA_Tg_vk

Please take a look at this short, well produced video by Endoca. This is the video that got me interested in pursuing all this.

Tell me what he does right and what you would change or what steps you would add, staying with his system of using grain alcohol for extraction.

Thanks!

Two more videos on using a home water distiller or the lower wattage ethanol distillation version from Megahome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z58FiH87-6w&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObQ_WDT7G5Y

I thoroughly modified a water distiller for flammable solvent recovery, post #'s 213-248 here,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338633&page=22

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 5, 2017

I've seen this guys video before. A few things about his process that I dislike. First, he seems to handle the material with his hands a great deal. That removes the good stuff. No need to do that, IMHO.

Second, after distillation his method of constant temperature monitoring and adjusting seems unnecessary. In the Endoca video he lets it sit overnight then does simple a flame test to check for residual solvent.

Using sunlight to remove the chlorophyll apparently works but again, seems like an extra unnecessary step not needed if using cold solvent.

As the using a variac with the water distilled, that seems like a good idea. What temperature are you trying to achieve by doing that?

WaterFarmFan · Oct 5, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
https://youtu.be/fYMCA_Tg_vk

Please take a look at this short, well produced video by Endoca. This is the video that got me interested in pursuing all this.

Tell me what he does right and what you would change or what steps you would add, staying with his system of using grain alcohol for extraction.

Thanks!

This is a good video that shows the basic steps of ethanol extraction. He does not do anything wrong, but just uses consumer tools without fine controls. You are at the mercy of the temp of the device. A goal in the extraction process is to keep as many terpenes as possible, which give each strain a unique "high". If you do any step too hot, your terpenes are evaporating with the alcohol, which makes a weaker more bland extract. Also, using a vacuum speeds up most processes by a significant factor. If you are doing a small amount, this might not be a big deal. Another factor (which he addresses) is the safety of evaporating large quantities of alcohol in an indoor space. Distilling is safer in that you are capturing the alcohol, and there are multiple ways to do this including Sky's version.

As for purging all ethanol without a vacuum, this is where the video fails. The only way to evaporate all alcohol without a vacuum is to use WAAAAYYYY too much heat, so much that all your terpenes will disappear. I am sure his lighter test works, but only after heating for too long at too high temperature. His process is fine if you are planning to make an edible oil, where you will boil off terps anyway doing a decarb, but not if your goal is to make vapable oil.

WFF

BlackestofOps · Oct 6, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
Interested in finding out the correct process needed/used to create the kind of golden-colored, honey like oil used in medical mariguana vape pens.

These are special pens that accept this very thick, slow moving oil. They are not the pens sold in vape stores.

Can this oil be derived using the so-called RSO technique?

You want distillate in your pen, for sure. We sell a cartridge or e-joint that works with pure, uncut distillate, which anyone can tell you is a neat trick. We also quantified the dose rate, and it was 3 times higher than next closest competitor. 6 mg of distillate consumed per 3 second puff.

herbgreen · Oct 6, 2017

The old iSO2 comes to mind

There is a new version called the super flower power tower

https://www.superflowertower.com/

herbgreen · Oct 6, 2017

Also check this place out....

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/iso-3-by-d-gold/

Iso3

https://dgoldalchemy.godaddysites.c...e=products/d-gold-alchemy-quartermaster-iso-3

Terpharvester · Oct 6, 2017

Some people will truly hate me for this but fuck it. Take your extract, it can be qwet it can be co2 it can be bho it doesn't matter, and mix it with peg 400 on a hot plate stirerer at the lowest temp possible to get it all to be homogenized. The ratio you use will be dependent on what atomizer your using and the starting consistency of your extract as well as the undesirables content of your oil. Find the ratio that works for you but 50/50 will be more then enough. I'd use as little as possible for it to not drop out of solution. Your cutting your oil so it will not be as potent so this really is a shitty way to do it but will also get you the result you want.

Another way to do it would be to use terpines. add them any where between a 1 to 10% ratio. You can source them from extract consultants or true terpines or other people there's more than a few options. Hope this helps you

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 6, 2017

WaterFarmFan said:
...As for purging all ethanol without a vacuum, this is where the video fails. The only way to evaporate all alcohol without a vacuum is to use WAAAAYYYY too much heat, so much that all your terpenes will disappear. I am sure his lighter test works, but only after heating for too long at too high temperature. His process is fine if you are planning to make an edible oil, where you will boil off terps anyway doing a decarb, but not if your goal is to make vapable oil

We have not really discussed this part in detail. I watched a video last night using one of these systems with the tilted round flask spinning in a hot water/oil bath. All the labs have them. Cost $30k and up.

With this one the plant material goes in a "jar" that has a deep freeze jacket surrounding it. Alcohol is added. From there, the extraction is pumped into the flask. Vacuum is applied along with the (low) heat. The vacuum pulls out the alcohol and transfers it to a cooling tower where it chills and becomes liquid again to be reused.

This is where the video ends. Not sure what the final product is, but it had the typical golden amber color.

Is this what the "pressure cooker" looking tank with vacuum pump in one of your EBay links is used for?

Where is the alcohol under vacuum going as I see no cooling attachment in that kit?

What kind if heat is applied to that tank to get the removal process started?

Thanks.

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 6, 2017

Terpharvester said:
Take your extract, it can be qwet it can be co2 it can be bho it doesn't matter, and mix it with peg 400 on a hot plate stirerer at the lowest temp possible to get it all to be homogenized.

All ideas and theories are welcome. For my personal needs, I'm trying to accomplish the production of a vapable oil without using additives. Similar to what I'm now having to purchase at my medical dispensary.

SkyHighLer · Oct 6, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
I've seen this guys video before. A few things about his process that I dislike. First, he seems to handle the material with his hands a great deal. That removes the good stuff. No need to do that, IMHO.

Second, after distillation his method of constant temperature monitoring and adjusting seems unnecessary. In the Endoca video he lets it sit overnight then does simple a flame test to check for residual solvent.

Using sunlight to remove the chlorophyll apparently works but again, seems like an extra unnecessary step not needed if using cold solvent.

As the using a variac with the water distilled, that seems like a good idea. What temperature are you trying to achieve by doing that?

You can't boil a liquid at a higher temperature than it's boiling point.

The purpose of the Variac is to control the rate of boil, too low and you're not being efficient, too high and the liquid will boil up into the condenser.

For maintaining steady temperatures beneath boiling point I added a microprocessor temperature controller. It also has a 'limit' function which cuts off power completely when the solvent is nearly gone by sensing when the temperature begins to rise above the boiling point range (what the original design was supposed to do...) I say range because that is what actually occurs during distillation when you don't artificially tightly band the boiling temperature with a controller, and this is why you shouldn't see a perfectly steady, even drip when you're suppling the proper amount of power, the system naturally goes through cyclic temperature changes as it tries to maintain equilibrium.

Extract cold, and be very careful not to use too much heat when removing the solvent.

WaterFarmFan · Oct 6, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
We have not really discussed this part in detail. I watched a video last night using one of these systems with the tilted round flask spinning in a hot water/oil bath. All the labs have them. Cost $30k and up.

With this one the plant material goes in a "jar" that has a deep freeze jacket surrounding it. Alcohol is added. From there, the extraction is pumped into the flask. Vacuum is applied along with the (low) heat. The vacuum pulls out the alcohol and transfers it to a cooling tower where it chills and becomes liquid again to be reused.

This is where the video ends. Not sure what the final product is, but it had the typical golden amber color.

This is called a Rotary evaporator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_evaporator

It separates the alcohol from your extract. You do not need this. It does the same process as standard vacuum distillation only at a faster rate with higher throughput.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_distillation

There are lots of videos that show these. Search videos for "vacuum distillation" for a start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZo97aO4xbk

Mellowyellow25 said:
Is this what the "pressure cooker" looking tank with vacuum pump in one of your EBay links is used for?

This is a totally different step from above. After filtering cannabis and cold ethanol, you have to remove the bulk of the alcohol at the lowest possible temps, and vacuum distillation (which includes the more expensive roto vaps) does this most efficiently. I said BULK (and this is a bit tricky) because you do not remove all of the alcohol in distillation. I try to get around 90% ethanol removed.

The step with the stainless steel kettle (or a more expensive vacuum oven) is to PURGE the last 10% (or so) of ethanol that remains in your extract. Again, using a vacuum allows you to remove alcohol with less heat.

Do some video searches for "vacuum purge". You will find a lot that reference BHO and show a different process sometimes, but the concept of purging alcohol is exactly the same as butane.

Mellowyellow25 said:
What kind if heat is applied to that tank to get the removal process started?

It is actually the vacuum that gets the process going, because it shifts the boiling points significantly. You need heat and thin film because the last bit of ethanol is very stubborn and gets trapped in the sticky mass. As for applying heat to your vacuum kettle, this can be done with in many ways. I referenced a dedicated heat pad with accurate PID controller that sticks to bottom of kettle. More expensive = more control over temperatures.

Mellowyellow25 said:
Where is the alcohol under vacuum going as I see no cooling attachment in that kit?

You really should use a cold trap between your vacuum device and pump, but honestly if you use a cheap pump and change the oil often, some ethanol getting to pump won't really hurt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_trap
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cold+trap&_sacat=0

WFF

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 7, 2017

Watched all the referenced videos and read all the wiki pages. Most helpful. Thank you all!

So, clearly it seems we all agree using cold ethanol and cold plant material for the initial extraction is preferable. Dry ice over just home freezer when possible for maximum chlorophyll removal. This part we can put to rest.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the distillation and second stage vacuum ethanol removal.

Referencing the Endoca video again, his method of using the water distiller is preferable over the proverbial open pot rice cooker, used for RSO, is not only safer but collects the ethanol for further use.

Some method of controlling the heat during distillation is warranted. Either via a manual variac or micro processor controller.

Without making this too complicated, would one way to arrive at that power/temperature setting be to raise it until dripping begins then stop? I believe you stated this will vary somewhat as the process continues (?)

Here is where I'm lost. For my own limited purposes, now, there are two steps, here. Distillation first to remove most of the ethanol and vacuum with low heat to remove what's left.

Is this correct?

Looking up the boiling point of Everclear it is 190 degrees F. THC has a BP of over 300 degrees F. THC decarbs at 220 degrees F.

So why the concern over using just heat alone (again the Endoca video technique with the coffee pot warmer for 24 hours) to remove that last bit of ethanol?

Isn't the 220 degree BP of THC well above what the pot warmer will ever achieve?

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 7, 2017

Sorry, meant the 300 degree BP of THC was well above the heat generated by the pot warmer, not 229 degrees.

SkyHighLer · Oct 7, 2017

Mellowyellow25 said:
Watched all the referenced videos and read all the wiki pages. Most helpful. Thank you all!

So, clearly it seems we all agree using cold ethanol and cold plant material for the initial extraction is preferable. Dry ice over just home freezer when possible for maximum chlorophyll removal. This part we can put to rest.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the distillation and second stage vacuum ethanol removal.

Referencing the Endoca video again, his method of using the water distiller is preferable over the proverbial open pot rice cooker, used for RSO, is not only safer but collects the ethanol for further use.

Some method of controlling the heat during distillation is warranted. Either via a manual variac or micro processor controller.

Without making this too complicated, would one way to arrive at that power/temperature setting be to raise it until dripping begins then stop? I believe you stated this will vary somewhat as the process continues (?)

Here is where I'm lost. For my own limited purposes, now, there are two steps, here. Distillation first to remove most of the ethanol and vacuum with low heat to remove what's left.

Is this correct?

Looking up the boiling point of Everclear it is 190 degrees F. THC has a BP of over 300 degrees F. THC decarbs at 220 degrees F.

So why the concern over using just heat alone (again the Endoca video technique with the coffee pot warmer for 24 hours) to remove that last bit of ethanol?

Isn't the 220 degree BP of THC well above what the pot warmer will ever achieve?

The art of removing the solvent in the gentlest manner is the game.

Extract cold. Pour into a Pyrex dish with a fan on it, any heat added to the bottom of the Pyrex dish should be very little or controlled so when the solvent evaporates off the temperature doesn't climb past warm, ~90-120F.

Attached picture of how the water distiller top can be set in place upside down with the fan blowing on the solvent/oil with the temperature set low, similar to the above, except you're first reclaiming most of the solvent at it's boiling point before the final gentle purge.

Pictures of a Variac controlled silicone mat heater attached to a borosilicate Pyrex dish. In the future the new temperature controller/limiter unit I assembled will be used in combination with the Variac.

Hashmasta-Kut · Oct 8, 2017

Thomas@LRL said:
No. It's a controversial subject, but I don't.

Why not?

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 8, 2017

SkyHighLer said:
The art of removing the solvent in the gentlest manner is the game.

Extract cold. Pour into a Pyrex dish with a fan on it, any heat added to the bottom of the Pyrex dish should be very little or controlled so when the solvent evaporates off the temperature doesn't climb past warm, ~90-120F.

Questions:

Are you using this low heat technique for the entire evaporation process? No distillation just open evaporation in the dish until it's all gone?

What is your end product? Is it the golden amber "honey oil" suitable for vaping right out of the dish?

Please be very specific or attach pictures of the final product if you can.

Thanks.

Mellowyellow25 · Oct 8, 2017

I wonder how using a small vacuum chamber would work for the evaporation process?

I have a lab chamber about one cubic foot square. Door on the front has a 1/2" thick glass panel to see inside. Attached to a very powerful vacuum pump to bring chamber down to -30 hg in about 2 minutes.

Could install a power connection to allow for your 3M heating pad. Open dish sitting atop with solvent after extraction and filtering.

Wonder if I'd still need to provide a cooling tower for the expelled ethanol or would the size of the chamber be enough to allow the vapor to collect in?

Any thoughts?

ReikoX · Oct 8, 2017

Unless you have a cold trap, evaporation with the vacuum chamber will likely foul your pump oil quickly. That would, however, be idele for the final purge.

MrBungle · Oct 8, 2017

you are supposed to change the vac pump oil every time its used... ( you don't have to but thats what you are supposed to do....)

putting your oil alcohol mixture in a vac chamber and pulling a vacuum on it removes atmospheric pressure, and creates a negative pressure inside the vessel, therefore lowering the temperature at which every thing boils inside the vessel that is under vacuum...

What process will create vape oil?

Member

Got me a stone bad Mana

Member

Active member

Member

Active member

Active member

New member

Member

Member

Got me a stone bad Mana

Active member

Member

Member

Got me a stone bad Mana

Attachments

honey oil addict

Member

Member

Knight of the BlackSvn

Active member