Mildew: How to shut down and clean? Sulfur? Ozone?

Ok so there is a lot of different info about Mildew and I am trying to piece together some info on Powdery Mildew. Lets say a room has a bad infestation and you are going to shut it down and start over with fresh clones from an uninfected source. As far as how to clean I see people say just "bleach" everything, well that is too general an answer for me, so to get more specific.

The challenge is killing the asexual spores called conidia. These are the white "mildew" that is seen. PM also has sexual spores that it releases when it gets cold and it thinks winter is approaching. I think these are called cleistotheca and are little brown sap looking things on leaves that look like thrip turds. The conidia I read can live up to 21 days, the Cleistotheca live months. I think if you have mildew it is better to up the cold nights so that u only have conidia to fight against. These conida are asexual spores that need to live on another plant. They are obligate parasites. In nature they might get blown by the wind into atmosphere when conditions good and land far away and start to grow. In a room they might land on walls or any surface like edges of tables, under tables etc. I have yet to find out if conidia or cleistos can rest in medium and grow onto root for example. But so the spores are on the walls. How to kill them? You can turn off everything for 3 weeks which hopefully the spores will have died. But u do not want to have everything down that long so how can we accelerate this shut down? I think the variables and products might include Sulfur Burners, Ozone Gnerators, high temps and maybe other stuff too.

Lets say you clear everything out on Sunday, day zero, 0. Then on Monday you add Physan20 which is like bleach in that it contains Clorine type compounds and is known to be very good for disinfecting. Add that to the ebb n flow resevoirs and run them a bunch to do initial disinfection.



* SULFUR BURNER. Day 1 Run this for hours, perhaps at least 8 hours long. This releases elemental sulfur which is at ph8 I think. I read that it binds to hydrogen atoms in spores but I am not sure of the nature of this on resting spores. I know it stops spores from germinating on living tissue but does it kill spores that are resting? I imagine it might at some concentration kill off the spores. Anybody have any info on using sulfur this way? Does it disinfect in addition to stopping spore germination?

* OZONE GENERATOR Day 2 Ozone is a very reactive form of oxygen. It is often used to cover up smells and sometimes used for disinfectiong. I think you could crank it up in the room with fans off for hours then vent it. While it is in contact with spores it might rip them up and destroy them. Is this a good way to disinfect? Anybody have experience with this?

* HIGH HEAT. Day 3 I suppose any easy thing to do after those two treatments on day 3 is to turn on all lights and turn off ventilation so room gets very warm like over 110 but below 130. This could really torture spores as well. This kind of thing could be used in any room shut down as hi heat increases metabloism and might stress organism.

My goal is to annihilate the room during this shut down with lots of corrosive compounds that r in a from (mists) that allow them to coat every surface. This is better than I could every hope to do by hand.

Do any of u have any experience with these shut downs? Any rules of thumbs? What do you think of the regimen of compunds? Are there side effects? Like I think that rubber might eventually get damaged by ozone.

I hope we get some good answers here, I have read alot about PM and will continue to learn but I think this a enormous problem that alot of people deal with improperly. I think alot of people confuse control (sulfur burner, PM will return after stop using sulfer ) for eradication (permanently gone). My goal is ERADICATION.

With no plants alive in room and I hit the walls hard with these compunds I am thinking a few days of shut down. 3 days? 7 days? what does everybody think?

MUST ERADICATE THE BORG NANOBOTS!

sup sarek, I too have an infection of powder mildew and didnt read as muhc as u did on the subject but now that u mentionned it I have learned that they are a bitch to get rid of too. I did a few posts where I was suggested to use SM90 to kill it on the actual plants. I was also suggested to put baking soda on the ground because it helps prevent spreading of the spores and helps control humidity.

To eradicate, you must correct the environmental factors which cause PM....low temps and high humidity. All the bleach in the world will not stop it if your environment is inviting....

No need to scrap your plants, infection comes from airborne spores.

Baking powder controls PM because it is alkaline, and pm doesn't like alkaline. Mix with water and spray plants, but get the temps up, probably mostly at night.

im in the same situation. I just finished a run half of my plants got PM, what is the best way to clean up? Im only running a small box (3x3x4) so it would be easy for me to make some kind of spray to clean out my box, then i can work on fixing the conditions where the PM thrives. I harvested new years and havent put any plkants back in the box yet, will the PM still be alive?

If using some kind of bleach solution, what % would it be? Like acup per gal of water or somethin? Im just looking for a recipe for a solution to clean everything with before i start over.

Thanks
Reeferdan

Thanks for the replies.....

Little-soldier, SM-90 is oil based, probably some kinda citrus oil. Oils in general are known to be good against PM. But again I think it is important to differentiate between control and eradication. I think SM90 might be pretty good with control.

HeadyPete, you say to eradicate conditions must change.......That is a great goal but might be difficult to do. I have never been able to eradicate an infestation once it gets going though condition changes ight be easier to control..

ReeferDan, not sure of bleach concentraition, probably just a standard disinfection regimen that is mentioned everywhere.

I just read a book called Hemp Diseases and Pests by MacPArtland, Clarke and Watson. It is very comprehensive and one guy is a college professor. Serious people should but it, it costs ~175 but worth it. On page 11 they mention PM. There are TWO species that infect cannabis; Sphaerotheca macularis and Leveillula taurica. Knowing these two names means interested people can research goole these names and get lots of SPECIFIC information. One tidbit of interest is that the relative humidity for each for germination is different. L taurica conidia can germinate with 0% RH and optimal growth is 25C (77F). In contrast, S. macularis conidia germinate best at 100%RH with optimal growth at 15-20C (59-68). So perhaps the experience and advice that one might have could depend on the species you r experienced with and that is hard to know. L taurica likes it warm and dry whereas S macularis likes cool and wet. I supose there are some conditions that are bad for both. S macularis infects hops which is similar to cannabis.

Here is a brutal story; Hops used to be grown around New York, about 70 years ago PM infected the field and annihilated them. Not sure which strain, perhaps s macularis. The whole industry shut down and all hops growing moved to Washington state where this PM strain did not exist until about 2002 when it started showing up Now all the hops is fumigated and grown like grapes with lots of sulfur. Outdoors, throught the last 100 years, PM often is so hartd to fight the whole industry will just move when possible.

My original question theough is how best to ERADICATE and ANNIHILATE an empty room. This is a disinfection step, how best to do it? I read up a bit on ozone generateors and seem promising.

I will have to agree with HeadyPete here. I've only had Powdery Mildew once in my growroom, a light infection in end flower when the room was overcrowded, and that was no bitch to get rid off. One single spray of neem oil, and some sulphur powdered on the plants that went in next, and that was it.
My conclusion is that my growroom environment is not that hospitable to PM, while some other growrooms - where you just can't get rid of it - are.

Outdoor environment probably plays a role in this as well. Airborne spores comes from a source, and that source should be located in the vincinity of the growroom. Maybe it isn't the growroom environment that causes your garden to constantly get re-infected.

Any of your neighbors grow onions?

Perhaps filtering the air intake with antifungals would help.

That's a good thought, rosy, about the onions, but spores like that ride the air currents for miles, so one must assume that the potential for infection is always present, especially if you live in warm climates and don't have cold winter.

I have Bee Balm in the garden that gets PM at the end of the season, telling me she is done for another year. Lilacs and roses get it too.

Obviously any filtration is better than none. A 3M high end furnace filter sealed on the intake will help with mold, fungi, insects, pet hair and other contaminants. I would highly recommend this upgrade to everyone, it will cut down on airborne problems. Plus no one wants pet hair in their finished bud.

Obviously once you open the door it bypasses all filtering capabilities, but it is still much better than a straight open intake, sucking potential problems into your grow space, 24/7.

Gonna bump, cause I really want to know too! You know, before I get it again...
P007

Thanks for more replies. Unfortunately, I am sorta stuck with the environment I have. The ambient weather is hard to change drastically. Of course I might be able to change it a bit and that could be a goal in the long run. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, there are two strains that like different conditions. In general I thinkonce an infestation gets really established even changing the environmant has little effect. In the beginning a few leaves with splotches might have 5 thousand spores. A few weeks later if a many plants are coated you might be fighting a few hundred MILLION spores. Easily Billions. That is tough to fight against.

And even if you change the conditions and it is unfavorable, you might still have a low level infestation that can affect yield and be contagious thyough not visible. This is the kinda thing where u give your friend some clones and bam, he gets mildew cos the environment is different.

What most of you are addressing is PREVENTION which is great but a different subject. There are many ways to help with that including; air filters (doable but hard to get 100%), recirculated, closed system (difficult), serenade (apply weekly - pain in the ass), oils (pain) and other methods. Keeping conditions unfavorable is great too.

HOWEVER, My goal is complete and total Eradication AFTER infection has set in. I think it is near impossible to eradicate it from a larger amount of living plants. I am looking for DISINFECTION of empty room. Killing everything alive in it. Ozone and Sulphur seem promising. When people say they bleach a room, what does that mean, it is a very braod term.

sarek you are on the right track.

reading up is the best you can do. there is a definate distinction between control and eradiction. some products (well most on the market) have only control properties. they coat the surface of the leaves, and won't allow new spores to attach and start growing. this effect lasts maybe two weeks. but it has been shown that oils such as neem oil, etc. do also have some eradication effect of 'existing' mildew infection. but neem can hurt/burn some plants.

mildew being around is def. environmental factors (crowded, humid, infection present for a while)

but don't forget it is also strain factor. some strains are just naturally more resistant to the infection. this may because of a different composition in their leaves (less oily, less trichomes, who knows) that makes it difficult for the spores to attach to. maybe try a new strain?

ok, now about bleaching the room, i think they mean mixing water with bleach (1:10) and wiping down everything. walls. floors. etc.

as far as ozone goes, an ozone shock treament (your ozone generator on its highest setting in a closed space for a few hours) should kill all bacteria and mold spores. but if they are in your house they are just gonna blow back in when you open the door to your grow.

instead of SM90, a better product to use is JMS stylet-oil. you can google them and read up on their website. it's a horiticultural oil thats of higher refinement then neem. since its so refined it most likely will not damage your plant. it also has eradication effectiveness.

good luck

xoox

anyone notice any respitory,lung problems after smokeing P.M..???i had a problem with p.m,,i have a wicked cough for quite awhile now,never had this prob like this till i smoked my harvest whitch was afected by pm.very hard to get rid of,once its in the tissue...ilive in a old farm house,feidlstone wall basement,,very humid and damp...i srayed the walls down with a pump sprayer ,i used Bleach,bakeing saoda,,dish soap so it adheres to the walls,a pasturized milk and water,,,if i had the money i wouldbuy a sulfur burner to try,,i hope everyone gets this under control..jimi

jimih2 on that subject some will tell you yes, dump your stuff, make hash, etc. and some will tell you no. etc. obviously you don't want to be smoking spores directly into your lungs. i personally wouldn't take the chance. but if you think about it, you are burning this material, and that heat will kill lots of the spores in the bud as it burns, but some may enter your lungs from before the burning part on the inhale draw. does it do anything? well. hard to say. technically if you are healthy, probably nothing will happen as you have a defense against this type of organism. it's in the air you breath if its in your grow room. naturally your mucous membrains will cough it up. or it will just process out of your system. but if you are not in good health, it could irritate your lungs, etc causing this coughing. or make you susceptible to virus. pm is really like a mini plant in itself, just leeching off your plants leaves to survive. the smoke will probably taste bad, but you are smoking a micro plant.

there are human viruses out there, that are currently going around that do cause a very long cough. just a throat tickle and cough, and thats all you get for 3+ weeks. so you may just have that and just being paranoid. or maybe you have black mold in your house. that can kill you.

again, i personally wouldn't smoke it. but lots of people will. you decide. i guess i would if i was desperate, since it's only PM and not stachyboris whatever black mold killer, lol. (but can you be SURE?)

xoox

Again an organism cannot live in an environment where the conditions are hostile to it. Your strains are susceptible and your environment is conducive to growing mildew, so one or both of these factors must change. Everything else is a band aid treatment. Lower the humidity, raise the temps.

No I would not smoke anything that has been attacked by molds or mildew. These fungis can produce very dangerous toxins. Toxins are their defense mechanisms and the biggest danger to you, it's not just the spores. Putting that into my lungs is just not worth getting high for.....ever. I pitch it in the trash and so should you. Some say hash, I say trash.

xOOx, your rationalizing is dangerous and mistaken. Yes there may be a few spores in the air we breathe, but active, growing mold or mildew is not just spores, it is the complete living organism and these fungis produce mycotoxins that burning will not neutralize. You do not have a "defense for this organism", because it is the toxin, not the organism. Would you eat strange mushrooms you found in the forest? Stay far away from fungis and molds. Mycotoxins can cause cancers, damage kidneys, nervous system, immune system etc.

this isn't powdery mildew, but still a common plant disease.......

Wiki said:

Fusarium toxins are produced by several species of the genus Fusarium which infect the grain of developing cereals such as wheat and maize. They include a range of mycotoxins including the fumonisins, which affect the nervous systems of horses and cause cancer in rodents; and the trichothecenes, including deoxynivalenol, and zearalenone, the last two of which are very stable and can survive cooking. The trichothecenes are acutely toxic to humans, causing sickness and diarrhea and potentially death.

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agreed it is dangerous, and some here might misunderstand my logical and rational approach and start smoking their PM. i do not condone or recommend smoking any bud with powdery mildew in it as the exact species of powdery mildew thats attacking your plant has not been scientifically identified (your PM mite not be the same fungi as his PM) so smoking it is really taking a crap shoot if your going to get VERY sick or not. so just don't do it. it's not worth the risk, and your life and health is not worth the high. overall i just wanted jimih not to panic if he has smoked it, as it probably is just a virus causing his cough. looking on the bright side. but come to think of it should have it checked by a doctor, and get some mildew free herb to enjoy in the future, pal.

better heady?

xoox

Sounds good pal. Your are absolutely right that many species of fungi are responsible for PM.

It was good of you to consider how jimih2 may feel. Nice one! I too have a cough and cold right now, not from PM, but from the virus that is going around infecting everyone...second one in 2 months and I usually rarely get sick. Don't stress jimih2!

Thanks for the replys guys,ive been hacking for well over 2 months..first i thought it was a cold,,i have 2 kids that had a rough year as far as colds go..so i kept waiting to get better with no luck,,itwent to the clinic.i told the doc i think i have lung infetion..he told me it was Asthma.inhalers helped me breath a little beter but not much..when i receiced someT.W ,Bubba k...O.g kush,ecsd. cuts i shared with my freind.a fellow grower. he had the sameP.M problem as me..he cant even smoke.his throat and lungs are sore like mine,,i cant hold my hits in..i tried to use a few diferent products to clean my plants,,took clones and endedup with pm again..wiped out all my moms ..im just trying to figure out if anyonelse expirenced this,,i feel awful i gave a good freind some infeted cuts..i realy didnt think my problem was related to P.M..until my freind started having the same problems ...ii cleaned(sprayed) the basement.i only have one plant from seed i just started,,i hope and pray this dosnt come back,,thank you so much for replying with some great info xOOx and Headypete ,,its much apricated.... (jimih)---;;;>

heres a pic of T.W from the first round i grew ,,the second grow was just as bad if not worse..bad pic

As you can see from one of my earlier posts, there are TWO species of PM that infect Cannabis, Sphaerotheca macularis and Leveillula taurica. You can google them and find out about their toxicity as these PM's cause Billions of damage and are well studied.

I talked with someone today and they mentioned that ozone should be used for a few days in a row to really attack the spores.

I came up with a concept of infection that I will delineate now so that we can have a baseline for what infection is.

Level 0 (zero) infection: is actually NO infection. There are absolutely NO PM fungal bodies, mycellium, hyphae living anywhere in the system. This is primarily in a greenhouse or closed environment.

Level 1 infection: Low level infection. Under control. Rarely see patches but they do not really progress. Control might be natural immunity, resistance, neem oil, serenade. This is the natural state outdoors where spores might land on plants and not progress or might only get bad if weather changes. This is the state that many growers are in. They say they do not have mildew but really have a latent infection. If they give away clone that look ok the giftee gets PM. If they change the temp/humidity/environment then it shows up leading these people to say PM is always there and only conditions prevent it.

Level 2 infection: Full blown infection. Everything is being annihilated by PM. Trillions of spores. Might be using sulfur burner every week or two here to keep down infection, but stop and soon - WHAM.

I will try to use this nomenclature from here on sincce I think many people are in level 1 infection and think they are in level 0. An analogy is Herpes. Some people have cold sores all the time (level 2), many people have occasional outbreaks or even almost never (level 1), while some people do not have it and this can be proved by a negative antibody test (level 0).

I like to be at Level 0. Level 2 is unacceptable. Level 1 is an interesting place. Might plants that are really treated wtih proper control regimen and fresh vegeative plants revert to level 1????

The person I spoke with today said that Serenade applied weekly to level 1 plants might eradicate PM. The way that I have gone from Level 1 or 2 to level 0 is by shutting down as I mention above.


Link to article on greenhouse L taurica
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/peppermildew.htm
Of note is that in peppers here they take 21 days to grow and seem to have spores on underside of leaves.

Link to S macularis on hops
http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/php/review/2003/hpm/

Just wanted to bump this to see if Sarek and any further experiences or if anyone can add to his descriptions because out of everything I have read about PM what he is saying is making the most sense and coincides with my own research. My goal is also eradication versus siimply controlling it. I have stopped my perpetual cycle in the bloom room, I am cleaning it and shutting down for 2 months, I will also use Bleach, sulfur burns and high heat to remove and kill spores. During that time I will treat the veg plants with weekly eagle20, & Neem oil, Greencure, and sulfur burns. The goal is to break the cycle of spore reproduction here. Also with this 2 month downtime and veg period, I should be removing majjority of the older lower leaves which may have been infected, so it will be post cleanup growth on these plants. I have addressed environmental issues and will be tracking the metrics when I start up again. We will see if I can suceed. If not I will not be able to grow these moms anymore, nor grow in this house, as I must assume the spores are spread throughout the house and can not be removed, and the plants can not be cured.

Formaldehyde should take care of all problems, maybe even by fumigating in gas form by heating solid paraformaldehyde.

G.O. Joe said:

Formaldehyde should take care of all problems, maybe even by fumigating in gas form by heating solid paraformaldehyde.

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You sure? It is carcinogenic, poisonous and explosive mixed with air or oxygen!