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Old 01-05-2018, 11:53 PM #1
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Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate ?

Hey Y'all, Came across Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate does anyone use this or heard of it being use?

What other forms of Magnesium do y'all use? I'm hydro, no medium.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:31 PM #2
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Anyone have any idea?

I'm just looking for cal and mag sources that are more readily soluble, if y'all's got tips or tricks!
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:59 PM #3
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It's mostly used as cosmetic ingredient in the form of decahydrate which contains 9.6% Mg and ~8% P.
What do you mean by "more readily soluble"? More than what? Magnesium salts are usually quite well soluble in water (if you neglect precipitation with anions such as phosphate or carbonate).
Depending on what you do and how, using ascorbyl phosphate is wasted money due to spontaneous hydrolysis.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:45 PM #4
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Im also looking into alternative Ca and Mg Sources. Only Ornamental with your Knowledge could you shed some Light on why Ca EDTA is not a good Source even though its widely used by Companys like Yara.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:22 PM #5
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Due large volumes produced for many kinds of applications, EDTA is fairly cheap but it's mineral oil base and nearly non-biodegradable. Not only does it accumulate in soil and sediments but also in plants because a part of EDTA chelates is assimilated as a whole and doesn't liberate the metal ion. Hence, too much EDTA has been shown to decrease yield. Furthermore does it exhibit a very tight binding to iron and can cause micronutrient lockout. It's binding affinity is likely higher than optimal for calcium chelation and it's fame in agriculture came from a time where stronger metal binding was believed to be better... As we know today, too good a chelate can even cause nutrient deficiencies (a strategy used by microbes which secrete siderophores) or lead to leaching (done on purpose with certain "flushing" products). Somewhere between EDTA and citric acid (which is too weak and unstable to be considered a good calcium chelate) lays Dissolvine (aka GLDA) which is eco-friendly, derived from renewable resources, and fairly biodegradable. At the moment, GLDA is arguably the best option of all cost-effective chelates although we don't know what happens within plants. I haven't even come across any study which investigated plant assimilation of GLDA... stating that GLDA is the answer and all gold and shiny might be a hasty conclusion because right now we're playing guinea pigs with millions of people eating (and sometimes smoking LoL) produce from GLDA treated crops.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:54 PM #6
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Thank your for the detailed Answer. I must admit im slightly confused though, when i google Dissolvine, EDTA Ca Chelate from Yara comes up, havent found a Ca Chelate using GLDA yet.
Nearly all non Iron Micronutrients in Fertilizers are chelated using EDTA, it seems impossible to avoid it when using Salt Fertilizer. Obviously the Amount is quite low when it comes to Micronutrients.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:33 PM #7
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Thank your for the detailed Answer. I must admit im slightly confused though, when i google Dissolvine, EDTA Ca Chelate from Yara comes up, havent found a Ca Chelate using GLDA yet.
Nearly all non Iron Micronutrients in Fertilizers are chelated using EDTA, it seems impossible to avoid it when using Salt Fertilizer. Obviously the Amount is quite low when it comes to Micronutrients.

Dissolvine micronutrients=AkzoNobel

https://micronutrients.akzonobel.com/brands/dissolvine/
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:28 PM #8
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Dissolvine GL is the brand name for the GLDA chelating agent. they do not offer any GLDA metal chelates currently, AFAIK.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:55 PM #9
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Dissolvine GL (@Avenger: right, forgot the GL! Thanks for the proper brand name) is mainly used in the form of tetrasodium salt as anti-scaling agent in industrial applications and laundry detergents. For obvious reasons, it would be utter nonsense to use the calcium salt...
Agriculture often opts for cheap raw materials and seldom invents something new but employs what's already there. For the reason mentioned above, calcium GLDA has no value elsewhere and that's why it's only produced for special applications and isn't used big scale in horticulture.
@ADHD: You're correct, the amount of chelated micronutrients applied/used is so low and hence, EDTA is kept at minute quantities. In addition, a strong chelate is needed to protect micronutrients from precipitating and therefore EDTA and alike are, at least from an economical and practical point of view, still the best way to go.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:01 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Only Ornamental View Post
It's mostly used as cosmetic ingredient in the form of decahydrate which contains 9.6% Mg and ~8% P.
What do you mean by "more readily soluble"? More than what? Magnesium salts are usually quite well soluble in water (if you neglect precipitation with anions such as phosphate or carbonate).
Depending on what you do and how, using ascorbyl phosphate is wasted money due to spontaneous hydrolysis.
Your science is so full! Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate your knowlege.

Main thing: there's always powder on the bottom o' my reaservoir! It's precipitating out? That means I got too much? I just want them to eat their calcium and magnesium!
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