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Old 01-04-2018, 04:56 AM #1
kingCA
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Cation exchange and additives

From what we know in coco we are taught to not use flush with straight water due to cation exchange. How does this apply when adding additives such as compost teas, molasses, kelp etc?

If I add a compost tea, this only consists or RO, molasses, and compost. In theory wouldn't this throw the cation exchange?

What if I'd like to add water with only something like molasses or kelp added as many do?

We could mix with nute solution, but in the case of compost tea this would negate the the freshly brewed bennies.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:51 PM #2
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Originally Posted by kingCA View Post
From what we know in coco we are taught to not use flush with straight water due to cation exchange. How does this apply when adding additives such as compost teas, molasses, kelp etc?

If I add a compost tea, this only consists or RO, molasses, and compost. In theory wouldn't this throw the cation exchange?

What if I'd like to add water with only something like molasses or kelp added as many do?

We could mix with nute solution, but in the case of compost tea this would negate the the freshly brewed bennies.

Thoughts?
That's not how coco works..you're always feeding (multiple times per day for established plants) at an average or slightly lower EC (adjusting for feeds per day plus environmental factors such as VPD and available light).

Even when flushing you still buffer RO water...preferably with carbonate and not nitrates..and you never flush without nutrients except for the last couple days..but you should've been lowering ppms appropriately the last weeks to the point where a 'flush' isn't needed. All your doing is killing the plant off, plain and simple..see in soil the plant self regulates..it knows its produced flowers and is about to die so it stops feeding..but with inorganic salts that are water soluble..they are instantly chelated and absorbed whether the plant wanted it or not..so you as the grower have to mimic the plants natural biological activity..

Gonna use this post as opportunity to rant..lol...YOU DO NOT NEED MICROBIAL ACTIVITY WHEN USING INORGANIC, CHELATED SALTS. THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. Elements are made available through chelation..and in our case of inorganic salts they are forms such as EDTA, etc..in SOIL microbes perform the chelation through enzymatic activity (which is produced as a biproduct of their metabolism, hence the use of molasses and likewise as a form of carbohydrates). You are receiving absolutely zero benefit in your attempts to blur the lines between soil and soilless growing..pick one or the other..
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:16 PM #3
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Good rant! i used teas but that was with a organic mix with all the goodies.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:14 AM #4
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Anyone else with any input on the actual question?

When adding additives such as kelp, molasses, teas, are the makeup of these additives with RO only ok to not wash out the ca/mg cec sites in the coco?
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:02 PM #5
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I used to use a drip to waste system with 3 gallon pots of pure coco. Once a week I would fill the res up with enough water to give the whole room a nice hand watered flush and I would add compost tea to that res. I didn't add anything else just water and compost tea. (The compost tea I was using had no molasses in it, but it probably had trace amounts of kelp. Not that that is a huge deal just thought I would let you know).
I had killer results for multiple runs. I didn't worry about CEC because I started feeding again the next day.

I think it was beneficial as a flush and as a microbial innoculant to help keep disease out and the microbes could potentially help break down anything that wasn't being used in the medium.
It might have had just as good of results with just flushing with plain water.

I was using RO back then so I think this information is relevant.
Every other day of the week the system was run with basic salt based fertilizer and a drip system that watered up to 4 times a day.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:44 PM #6
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Add it to your mixed feed solution.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:45 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesey View Post
That's not how coco works..you're always feeding (multiple times per day for established plants) at an average or slightly lower EC (adjusting for feeds per day plus environmental factors such as VPD and available light).

Even when flushing you still buffer RO water...preferably with carbonate and not nitrates..and you never flush without nutrients except for the last couple days..but you should've been lowering ppms appropriately the last weeks to the point where a 'flush' isn't needed. All your doing is killing the plant off, plain and simple..see in soil the plant self regulates..it knows its produced flowers and is about to die so it stops feeding..but with inorganic salts that are water soluble..they are instantly chelated and absorbed whether the plant wanted it or not..so you as the grower have to mimic the plants natural biological activity..

Gonna use this post as opportunity to rant..lol...YOU DO NOT NEED MICROBIAL ACTIVITY WHEN USING INORGANIC, CHELATED SALTS. THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT. Elements are made available through chelation..and in our case of inorganic salts they are forms such as EDTA, etc..in SOIL microbes perform the chelation through enzymatic activity (which is produced as a biproduct of their metabolism, hence the use of molasses and likewise as a form of carbohydrates). You are receiving absolutely zero benefit in your attempts to blur the lines between soil and soilless growing..pick one or the other..
yes!......and no.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:49 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growinthehills View Post
I used to use a drip to waste system with 3 gallon pots of pure coco. Once a week I would fill the res up with enough water to give the whole room a nice hand watered flush and I would add compost tea to that res. I didn't add anything else just water and compost tea. (The compost tea I was using had no molasses in it, but it probably had trace amounts of kelp. Not that that is a huge deal just thought I would let you know).
I had killer results for multiple runs. I didn't worry about CEC because I started feeding again the next day.

I think it was beneficial as a flush and as a microbial innoculant to help keep disease out and the microbes could potentially help break down anything that wasn't being used in the medium.
It might have had just as good of results with just flushing with plain water.

I was using RO back then so I think this information is relevant.
Every other day of the week the system was run with basic salt based fertilizer and a drip system that watered up to 4 times a day.
good info thanks for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikell View Post
Add it to your mixed feed solution.
i've actually been doing this with the additives. basically i add a little res solution to a jug, add a bunch of water, then the addtive. but it's been in the back of my mind if i could use straight water hence this thread.

with compost tea, i understand adding anything after a brew kills off half the bennies and adding straight is most ideal. perhaps not such a big deal.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:27 PM #9
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"Salts kill beneficials".

Many say this, but it is a reduction of the truth. Regularly applied soluble nutrients break the "microbe nutrient" loop that functions in nature. Diversity and population suffer. Microbes are hardy creatures, some adapt and some go dormant until conditions favour their growth. But to "salt the earth" and create a wasteland? Organic bogeymen. You would need to apply sea water to achieve those results.

Tea is a light mixture of soluble nutrients and other organic compounds with a population of microbes determined by input and technique. Most recipes are little more than nutrient slurries too rich for microbial activity.

Last edited by Mikell; 01-18-2018 at 10:26 PM..
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