Will this no-cost tea brewer work?

I can't seem to find any guidelines for how many gph of a water pump is needed to create enough DO in a waterfall for X-amount of tea.

I spent $3 on some 1/2" PVC to create a 30" rise. Hooked up some pumps I had laying around (264 gph, each) and viola....



Waste of time? I can always get a smaller container to brew in. I was just cleaning up my room and put it together in 10 minutes with what I had on-hand (minus the PVC, of course)

I was going to put the EWC/amenedments in a ladies pantyhose, insert a couple of air hoses I have (small fish pump) and tie that all up as a "tea bag", as well as panty hose around my pumps since they're cheap/not made for derbis.

Would I be better off getting a 10-gallon trash bin and using it in that?

I think that would work. MM might have info on water flow rates on his website. I haven't seen such a high drop for an airlift brewer before. He has a diy about them you'll want a commercial pump though for the airlifts. The aquarium ones aren't powerful enough for that amount of water.

Yup, should be fine. I brew tea in a 3 gal bucket with a small submersible for flooming!

I may be wrong but those pumps look like submersible propeller pumps. If so they may damage the life you are trying to propagate. If the pumps are air pumps it looks awesome!

Good luck.

Yep, wrong. I see the yellow hose now

Naw, you're right. They're the fountain/propeller type pumps. The yellow hose is my water hose to fill the rez. I was under the impression that this type of pump would still work, although not ideal.

Doesn't matter. The whole set-up was making a mess. I need a deeper, narrower container like a 55 gal drum. Can fill it partially and the sides will block the splashing.

I chose to go 30" high because 1) its not an airlift, its just a h20 pump and 2) I figure the further it fell, the more the water breaks up/collects oxygen. I dunno, I just grabbed 10ft of pvc and started hacking on it.

I DO intend to buy a good commercial air pump for a proper brewer. Just trying to do "good enough for now" because I need to feed some plants soon and am out of bottled crap.

Need to get a garbage can or something to brew in for the time being. Short and squat complicates things.

What are you putting in your tea? Could you possibly top dress that? You could also make it into a slurry and top dress that then water it in. I've done that a couple lazy days. It worked well using stuff like guano or alfalfa.

It doesn't really have to fall far actually. Matter of fact, you can take the nozzles RIGHT OFF of them and let them flip the water like that. That's how you flip the most water.

It's counter-intuitive but that's how it actually is guys because of like... a lotta factors.

Basically when you start lifting the water, the amount of water you can fight gravity with goes WAY down -

and, sorry to say cause I know it IS counter intuitive,

you don't get much extra punch just pouring it out of the nozzle to the surface again. I mean, ultimately, ya don't. You actually LOSE a lot in the long haul.

It's a function of so much yada-YaDa it would sound kinda dumb to list all the reasons, but when it all shakes out, whatcha wind up with, is that if you expose every single molecule of water to the atmosphere say three times an hour,

that's a LOT more atmospheric exposure, than doing say... a fifth of that but oxygenating it a little better.

Like there are physical reasons why the drop, doesn't give you a lot of extra punch... it's just not really, even nearly as efficient to try to raise it, then pour.

I grew up in the aquarium business too, so ... this kind of thing isn't real far from home for me.

For instance here's like.... an indicator what I'm saying to ya's true. Ever notice the airlift in an aquarium that flips the water in the undergravel filters, doesn't stick way up over the water's surface? They're really, supposed to go out JUST at and above the surface, cause that way, those bubbles, are moving through the water, thus dragging more around on the surface there, etc.

It might be kinda counter intuitive, but the exchange, is mathematically governed by the part of the math where you have the amount of time, any particular molecule, sees open sky; that's why the math works best when you're just spinning the water right through the pump without nozzles of any kind, just rolling it, rolling it, over and over..

and there's this, as well: Okay you're gonna destroy some of your wildlife you're farming there with the impellers. If you LIFT the water up it passes by the propeller several times longer before it ever sees daylight, AND you're reducing the total amount as already noted. K?

But see, when you just let the things spin it right through the inlet and outlet without even a nozzle of any kind to reduce flow, you not only PASS each, INDIVIDUAL molecule by FASTER thereby reducing contact (1) pressure and (2) time, you ALSO

pay yourself back by - remember here we are max flowing out the outlet, just rolling the water so we have, true, real, max output -


you pay yourself back by ALSO - moving the water that is d.r.a.g.g.e.d. a.l.o.n.g. by the water stream you are making leave that outlet - and THAT water never even SEES the propeller. And yet, that friction-driven stream, it all sees atmospheric air, TOO, as IT flips over up at the surface...

and the amount of friction driven current alongside the flume of water coming out of the pump outlet is typically pretty big, too - it's been YEARS and I'm just totally guessing, but I'd think it's like an additional 10 or 12 or - I dunno - if you channel it to exploit it, maybe even 20% of total water that moves, and sees daylight, due to just being dragged alongside the water pushing out of the outlet.

See what I'm sayin?

So you start multiplying reasons it gets better, when you start cutting the nozzle tube shorter and shorter, and just ROLLING the water, over, and over,

to the surface where it sees sky overhead - then ultimately, around, and BACK again - as MANY times per hour as possible.


Just sayin that to try to help out.

Nothing, yet. I got EWC, blackstrap, and various other amendments to use. I'd have to look up a recipe. Never actually brewed a tea before, was just posting to see if y'all thought it would work or not enough agitation. Doesn't really seem like all that much for 40-45 gallons, honestly.

I think at a minimum I'd need about 10 gallons of tea at a time, 15-20 preferable. Think I'm gonna get a 30 gallon rubbermaid garbage bin and just use that 1/2 full, with the water pumps I have for now in the same waterfall. Then as budget permits, add a commercial air pump and an airlift for a proper brewer. Just really tight on finances right now and trying to make-do with what I have.

Cannabis said:

It doesn't really have to fall far actually. Matter of fact, you can take the nozzles RIGHT OFF of them and let them flip the water like that. That's how you flip the most water.

It's counter-intuitive but that's how it actually is guys because of like... a lotta factors.

Basically when you start lifting the water, the amount of water you can fight gravity with goes WAY down -

and, sorry to say cause I know it IS counter intuitive,

you don't get much punch just rolling it out of the nozzle to the surface again.

It's a function of so much yadaYaDa it would sound kinda dumb to list all the reasons, but when it all shakes out whatcha wind up with is that - if you expose every single molecule of water to the atmosphere say three times an hour,

that's a LOT more atmospheric exposure, than doing say... a fifth of that but oxygenating it a little better.

Like there are physical reasons why the drop, doesn't give you a lot of extra punch... it's just not really, even nearly as efficient.

I grew up in the aquarium business too, so ... this kind of thing isn't real far from home for me.

For instance here's like.... an indicator what I'm saying to ya's true. Ever notice the airlift in an aquarium that flips the water in the undergravel filters, doesn't stick way up over the water's surface? They're really, supposed to go out JUST at and above the surface, cause that way, those bubbles, are moving through the water, thus dragging more around on the surface there, etc.

It might be kinda counter intuitive, but the exchange, is mathematically governed by the part of the math where you have the amount of time, any particular molecule, sees open sky; that's why the math works best when you're just spinning the water right through the pump without nozzles of any kind, just rolling it, rolling it, over and over..

and there's this, as well: Okay you're gonna destroy some of your wildlife you're farming there with the impellers. If you LIFT the water up it passes by the propeller several times longer before it ever sees daylight, AND you're reducing the total amount as already noted. K?

But see, when you just let the things spin it right through the inlet and outlet without even a nozzle of any kind to reduce flow, you not only PASS each, INDIVIDUAL molecule by FASTER thereby reducing contact (1) pressure and (2) time, you ALSO

pay yourself back by - remember here we are max flowing out the outlet, just rolling the water so we have, true, real, max output -


you pay yourself back by ALSO - moving the water that is d.r.a.g.g.e.d. a.l.o.n.g. by the water stream you are making leave that outlet - and THAT water never even SEES the propeller.

See what I'm sayin?

So you start multiplying reasons it gets better, when you start cutting the nozzle tube shorter and shorter, and just ROLLING the water, over, and over, by the sky above, and around BACK to seeing open daylight - you know, atmospheric air which is really what we're changing out gas with - again, and again, and again...

Just sayin to try to help out.

Click to expand...

So to make sure I understand straight....

Cut the PVC down to just below the water line then, approximately? Not enough for a fountain, but a gentle rolling on the surface mixing it up?

That could solve a lot of issues for me. Namely, the splashing all over the place.

I went ahead and pulled the PVC out of the pumps, just the pump alone creates the effect I believe you were describing. Gonna let it run overnight since I use tap water (chlorine), tomorrow I'll make some type of tea bag for it and see how it turns out.

I actually think these pumps would be perfect running as they are now in a 5 gallon bucket. It would be much better agitated. My 1000 GPH pumps would be better suited for this 50 gal res if I made a mainfold. I may elect to just brew in buckets until I can build a proper air lift. Need something like last week though. Got plants in mid flower starting to yellow up a bit too early.

You don't want to over oxygenate them, it's just a whole lot easier, if you don't have to use the nozzles. You can get by with a really small pump for keeping a herd alive, really.

For instance, as inefficient as this sounds and is, people oxygenate tanks, by just dropping an airline in, and having a section of tubing around it for an airlift riser, that reaches to the bottom.

And that's all you need for something of the cross section of a barrel or cylinder or similar geometry. Tall square pails or whatever will still be oxygenated enough so a herd can do just fine.

The thing you're trying to get to happen is simply some full stirring of your water, at a low, to low-medium rate.

They form light slime themselves partly to help keep control of oxygenation levels around them.

Sometimes you'll see someone in a legal forum talking about making some tea.

They tell people constantly that if you just go by every so often and give a paddle of

some kind a pass through the tea, that'll be enough to keep it viable and happening.

For roots, oxygen is all but for bacterial herds, that's not the case.

I was under the impression that you really DO need a lot of dissolved o2. The commercial brewers really put an emphasis on this. Stirring the water once in a while will yield inferior results Imo. You might keep something alive in there but it won't be the beneficial bacteria you are aiming for.

According to CT Guy the minimal amount of DO you need is above 6 mg / liter.

Ct guy uses 150 lpm @ 1.5 psi for his 5 gallon act brewer..

I don't know what that guy, but then again I barely know my kids.

However I DO know what I'm saying's correct from the zoological standpoint.

It's fundamental bacteriology which is really simple farming because of their

lack of ability to all get out and get killed in the road
or set you back hundreds/thousands in veterinary bills,

after one of them teaches the other ones to eat dog food
or boxes of office staples.

That's not gonna happen because they're completely at the will of the winds of change.

Whether those winds come in tiny frothing bubbles designed to aid uplift through frictive power based in more spheres, having more surfice/volume ratio therefore able to interact with, and drag more water,

or in great galloping globules of gushing gas globs from the end of open hose,

is a matter of design.

I'm not trying to contradict the guy's story about being able to make the batches quicker with more aeration. That's certainly true.

Contextually though we're looking at photographs of lifters that weren't efficient

when simply removing the nozzles from the pumps

and running ONE of them

would give him probably 5 to 10 times better aeration,

and, cut power usage in half,

while removing all splashing - and, preserving his second pump for a backup

while freeing up a plug somewhere.

I can see that's how you would think that's what I was saying but I was talking about the whole thing in general,

not just how to make one that processes batches fast as possible at any cost.

The amount of O2 is the speed of the batch along with the temperature of the batch.

You'll keep something alive, your bacteria: Just not as many of them as with more aeration. They have slime to protect themselves from oxygen. But you are breeding them in large numbers offsetting the number you kill by many times.

Any form of rolling the water keeps the anaerobic bacteria numbers down.

In water in the wild there is a micro cycling of the water which prevents anaerobic bacteria from breeding large colonies.

The bottom absorbs light, darker objects absorbing more and this creates uplift of warmed water. At the top, water is evaporating and the cooling creates sinking.

There's not a lot of it, but it's enough that aerobic bacteria can make a living, and anaerobic bacteria are kept in the pockets where for whatever reason, there isn't joined flow and water gets deoxygenated.

In a situation where there's a lot of biological matter - in this instance where you're growing bacteria - the bodies of the bacteria in slime, the proteins involved, disperse through the water.

When these proteins etc get to the surface and drying occurs without any surface agitation, a skin occurs: and at that instant,

all oxygen refreshment is gone: the anaerobic non oxygen using bacteria begin to be able to multiply in ever larger numbers,

the aerobic oxygen using bacteria, using the dwindling oxygen in the water

stop multiplying.

This is why, people who make tea without power, have to go by every few hours, and take a plank or something, and agitate the water the tea is made in.

The plank's movement disrupts the film and swirls the water exposing some of it to oxygen again for a refreshing of it.

Once that film sets up it's shortly going to be over.

Until that film sets up, it's not over till the food's consumed.

Obviously that is considering temperature, and everything else that influences bacteria growing which isn't much, they're really some pretty simple life forms.

Polishdankchron said:

I was under the impression that you really DO need a lot of dissolved o2. The commercial brewers really put an emphasis on this. Stirring the water once in a while will yield inferior results Imo. You might keep something alive in there but it won't be the beneficial bacteria you are aiming for.

Click to expand...

I see where I said 'you don't want to over oxygenate them.'' I should have said 'you don't HAVE to over oxygenate them.'

I was stoned trying to dredge up things I don't talk about a lot for years now and if the guy you're talking about is the microbiologist, and he's the guy I'm thinking he is, and he proved out to be real, then I stand corrected if what I said factually contradicts known biological fact.

If the current state of the field is to try to beat water to froth to concentrate batches as soon as possible then I most certainly am not and really wasn't in the mood to contradict that. My wife's screaming at me ARE YOU READY or AM I DRIVING MYSELF!!??'' My bad if I was trying to seem contradictory to state of the field today.

Peace

Optimum is 0.08 GPH per gallon of water brewed if I recall correctly...check out microbeorganics.com, it will have most of the info you need, including a link to a conversion table to figure out LPM/GPH conversions. Personally, I would not take advice from anyone on compost tea that doesn't use a microscope to back up their advice.