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Old 03-12-2008, 06:13 AM #21
Mr Celsius
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Research phytochrome and Pr 660 nm and Pfr 730 nm. Cannabis is a short day flowering plant, except for autoflowers which are day neutral. When you understand why plants flower, you'll find your answer.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:26 AM #22
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Hi all,

I agree MR. C


Cannabinafil, the reason I use 24 hrs for cloning is because they clone so much quicker and I believe if you put them on normal lighting as soon as they display roots, theres no real harm. You certainly could clone them under that 15 hr light scheme but it would take maybe a week or so longer to get roots and I always seem constrainded for time as it is during that part of the season. Its hard to get plants started and big enough to take clones from and then get the clones ready by at least mid may. That's a lot of work in a short window and to clone on that time frame would drag things out.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:49 PM #23
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I cant take it any more...Ive been lurking all winter, but I cant take it any more....this is too important too pass up, and now the discussion has gone past my understanding...Plus I feel I MUST share my experiences.

I too have been plagued by early flowering clones, some years it has made my whole season a bust...Came to realize that this issue is EXTREEMLY IMPORTANT, and only gets more sensitive when you use early outdoor style strains, like I do. you know, photosensitive strains, those trigger early every time for me..

The solution:
Last year, I started my seeds on 15/9(indoors, January....see grow thread, link in signature)....They preflowered a fiew weeks later, I culled the males, and kept the mother plants in the same 15/9 photoperiod. Took clones mid may, transplanted outdoors early June, with no early flowering...The clones stayed in vegetative state through the transplant phase due to the fact that I matched the hours of light to the day of transplant...As far as photoperiod, the plant doesent know weather its inside under a MH, or outside on june 5th, ya know...

15/9 vs 24/0:
Silverback, I agree with yer statement in the sluggish growth of a 15/9 lightschedule...It took noticibly longer to grow and root my outdoor moms, and clones, as versus when I do indoor runs under 24/0...After having so many different experiences with this early flower tendency, im waaaaay too scared to chance a crop of clones rooted under 24, and transfered to 15...My past experirnces have led me to believe that they will guaranteed flower, indoor, outdoor, or green house, ,,,,go from a 24/0 mother, and transfer her clones down to 15/9 and there gonna bloom(or at least start to), no doubt about it,,,,Just because you cut the branch off the mother plant doesent mean you automaticly erase its memory...Specially with the indica doms, and the earlys.....now maby the more sativa plants, are a different story....Every year, back when I was trying the 24/0 thing with my cutts, the sativa dominant plants would transfer photoperiods just fine..

The test:
This year I am doing a test....I have alot of new strains that are curently under 24/0 from trades, and my winter indoor run....I am dying to try these outside, so im gonna attempt to simply throw these cuts in my 15/9 room with all my seedlings. I am expecting them to start growing more slowly, and start preflowering heavy, for roughly 2-3weeks.(same as they would if I tried to plant em outside on May 20th)...Next, im hoping they will slowly start to reveg, and fall in synch with the new photoperiod. I will veg them out, and clone off them along with my other mothers.. I am trying to make up for the slow growth during the 15/9photoperiod, in volume, heavy co2 enrichment, and an early start indoors...

Light intensity:
Butte, You made refrence to light intensity, and its correlation too holding a plant in veg...I have a thought on this....In previous years, ive started plants under shoplights, just simple floro's...really weak light. They stayed in veg for quite a wile, and transfered to the guerilla patch just fine....Out there in cali, yall get some nice sun, so it really shouldnt have mattered weather you had em in trees or not, that sun was alot more intense than my shoplights..I cant understand why your clones bloomed on you
Can you expound on your theory.

Only ways I know to work with/around early flowering in outdoor clone transplants:

-Plant seed directly into the outdoor patch.
-Veg large plants indoor, all summer, an put them out in the fall, to bloom.
-Start seedlings or clones early in a cold frame, hot house, or green house, with artificial light.
-15/9 from start with motherplants.
-Plant very sativa dominant strains
-bring in plants at night to a lit shed, barn, ware house, or garage..

.............................. .............................. .............................. ..........

I am very glad this issue is being discussed, it is in my eyes one of the most important factors in outdoor growing with clones, goes hand in hand with strain selection...












A week or two after the transplant, and veggin away. Sweet Purple..

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Old 03-12-2008, 09:23 PM #24
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Cool

Silverback, clones root in 8 to 16 days with 95%succes in the cloning box I built, under 18/6 useing peat pellets .
I understand your point however, but have you given the thought that plants (and I believe clones) transfer cell explosion(green growth then root growth) from above soil(day time) to below(during said 6hrs) therefor root development would occure faster under 18/6 or even 20/4 ... unless you find it cumbersome to heat the cloning area in, would be dark period, or have had blatant diferent results, or simply find it simpler, then it's all good ... it's all good any way ...
Were in the heart of it yur right LoL !!! I just bought 100 rooted clones 2weeks ago to supplement my already rooted 95 clones ... in fact they just finished root training in their 4"pots and I transplanted them in 3 and 5 gal pails to mother them up ...

get set, GROWWWWW

Thank you Fast_pine for sharing yur experiences with us .... that clones might not forget their mom photoperod memory is absolutly possible ... and thus they may trigger from a 24/0 mom to a 15/9 cloning schedual. beeing under a 18/6, and unwilling to subject all my to be moms to a reduced photoperiod from fear THEY might trigger ... I will pray that the diference between 18/6 and 15/9 will not be a triggering factor, given the hormonal scufafull and all the work that lays ahead for them.
We'll do the 15/9 experiment together brother ... god I hope this will work!
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:49 PM #25
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Im going 15/9 as well from what I have read and experienced, it seems like its worth a shot, Im hoping to reveg and clone by the end of may. Good reading
This is a big deal, summer only comes once, I have no experience with autoflowing plants...But I know this was my biggest problem to overcome, why hasnt anyone figured this out yet?
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:31 PM #26
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...all I know is what I've experienced. My plan stays the same...
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:40 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt122
Im going 15/9 as well from what I have read and experienced, it seems like its worth a shot, Im hoping to reveg and clone by the end of may. Good reading
This is a big deal, summer only comes once, I have no experience with autoflowing plants...But I know this was my biggest problem to overcome, why hasnt anyone figured this out yet?

Did you know Colt122, that revedged plants only produce half the yeild they previously gave? I wonder if clones of a revedged plant(that has gone through a full flowering season) will be geneticaly "sound" for production ... this comment is only ment as a heads up, not a critic though ...


This IS a big deal !! Agreed ... our findings from diferent latitudes of earth will give a broad spectrum of efficiency, given that the results are only to prevent preflower, final yeild and techniks of gardening matter not ... except if one of you likes to defecate and/or urinate on yur girls-->wich is wrong ...

I thank the Iceman for bringing the subject up, as within my 4000+ post on OG , 3000+ on AN and then my 60+posts here I never brought it up, nor have I read the subject anywhere ... very pertinent man.




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Old 03-13-2008, 12:22 AM #28
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quote:
Did you know Colt122, that revedged plants only produce half the yeild they previously gave? I wonder if clones of a revedged plant(that has gone through a full flowering season) will be geneticaly "sound" for production ... this comment is only ment as a heads up, not a critic though ...

Thanx for the reminder, I did read that the yeild will drop, I have limited seed, and enough time to breed more seed and or clone. Revegging is back-up for cash not genetics, I remember the days when my veg room was big enough to take only the main top for a clone, 3 clones per plant, basically every mainbranch top was used for clones....Sweet yeilds I must say....
Well Im thinking this one threw many times over, thanx

I do know alot of early strains were developed here in Manitoba, which should hold good in my favour! Im intrested in seeing how the GG does in my Burlab bags with outdoor#4 soilmix.
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Old 03-13-2008, 02:00 AM #29
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that revedged plants only produce half the yeild they previously gave
Please cite evidence to this. I personally believe you're wrong, but am humble enough to admit if I'm wrong, so please prove this to me.
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:00 AM #30
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Anytime Colt122 ...

Mr Celsius, dont take my word for it, there is no better proof than experience(i.e.:that's why I'll make a leap of faith with my babys with 15/9, and other will too, for example), try it out your self and witness how things grow, I invite you to try several strains of many phenos to behold the veracity of what I bring forth ..

Please PM me futher inquieries that differ from the title of the thread in wich we might incounter.

I apologies to The Iceman, I never ment to high jack his thread, lets all please stay on the subject at hand, a very important one if anyone asked me
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