Inert gas Fumigation-killing mites

Hey guys,here's a theory I've had for a while.Killing mites and other pests with an inert gas.This will be completely passive and non-toxic,and in the end will be more healthy than any other method of killing pests currently available.

The theory is that the plant can survive a lot longer without oxygen than the pests can.The question then becomes what gas to use.
One of the most commonly available inert gasses is Helium.Helium is one of the least reactive Noble gasses known.

I haven't tried this on actual mites yet,that's why it's still a theory,but I have done some preliminary experiments that certainly show promise.
You first need to obtain a Helium tank.These can be rented from a welding supply or party rentals.They also sell a small balloon kit with a small tank from Wal-Mart for about 20 bucks.

Here's the technique I use:

You will need a garbage sack that the plants will fit into, rubber bands and a short lenght of hose.





Now put the plant in the bag,shove the hose in the end of the bag with part still sticking out and use the rubber bands to keep the bag tight around the hose.Then suck as much air out of the bag as possible.





Then hold the hose over the gas nipple on the tank and inflate the bag.





I leave the plant in the bag for about an hour,that should kill every living thing in the bag except the plant.I've tested this a number of times and have observed no effect on the plants at all.

The spider mite is actually an arachnid and I was able to capture some spiders in my house and test the effects of the gas on them.I put the spider in a baggie and then introduced the gas.The effects were immediate,the legs curl under and the only movement is twitching wich stops completely after about 5 minutes.Helium is an excellent asphixiant.

Now as you can see this process requires some work and it will have to be repeated because it will not kill eggs.Under perfect conditions the mite can reach sexual matuity in 7 days so I would guess that gassing the 5-6 days apart would be best.Gassing a third time wouldn't hurt to be on the safe side.While you have the plants in the bags that's a really good time to use a fogger on the rest of your grow.

The smaller your grow,the easier this will be.I have considered another technique that may be employed if you have a small closet,room or cabinet.Simply place the tank in the grow and open the valve and gas the entire grow.You'll need a good fan to circulate the Helium as it is lighter than air.

Another inert gas I've considered is Argon although I don't have any on hand for testing.A couple pluses are that it's cheaper than Helium and it's heavier than air making it better for whole enclosure gassing.

One gas I can tell you not to try is CO2.I tried pure CO2 for as little as 10 minutes and it still effected the plant badly.Here's a look at what pure CO2 does:





Anyway,I'm hoping some of you guys can try this and see if it works.If it does then less people will be smoking buds that have had some type of chemical applied to it.


JLP

right on, always 1 step ahead you are JLP..... very interesting results too, i know i get fairly nervous about spraying pesticides in my home...


THC

I use a standard CO2 container used for pellet rifles, or in this case, a CO2 driven bicycle pump.


There are 453.6 grams to a pound.

12 ÷ 453.6 = 0.026455 pounds
0.026455 × 8.78 = 0.2322751 cubic feet
30 × .002 = 0.06
0.06 ÷ 0.2322751 = 0.258
It should take about ¼ of the 12g cartridge to fill 30 cubic foot cab with 2000 PPM of CO2.

I just take the plant and set it into a leaf bag.
Pull the bag up over the plant and gently squeeze out as much air as I can without breaking branches.
Then fill the bag with CO2 and tie it off and let it sit for about two hours.

For safety reasons be sure to work in a well ventilated area, both when filling the bags as well as emptying them.

I've heard 10,000 ppm of CO2 for 1-2 hours. Using a gas like helium at 100% concentration is different and interesting.

interesting for sure..different for sure..i wonder if the plants get high..or maybe a sissy voice lol

Thanks for the input guys.

I did testing using CO2 and found it to be unsuitable as it effects the plants badly.Bad enough to bleach out the leaves within 24 hours.
The reason the Helium doesn't effect it is because the plant was not meant to absorb helium,unlike CO2.It may be that lower ppm causes less effect but the pure Helium produces no effect and in turn no stress on the plant.

Here's a CO2 tested male.It was in a bag full of pure CO2 for 10 minutes.The pic was taken 24 hours later:









JLP

well rite on jlp you rock....thanks for the mud by the way..peace

JLP said:

The reason the Helium doesn't effect it is because the plant was not meant to absorb helium,unlike CO2.It may be that lower ppm causes less effect but the pure Helium produces no effect and in turn no stress on the plant.

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I hear ya loud and clear. I don't know about 'no stress'. The only stress I can think of is the plant is also choked off but since respiration occurs at a much slower rate than insects the time a plant is in something like a 100% helium enviro, that would wipe out mites, would be limited and any negative effect on the plants would very minimal.

awesome info...I just got super mites from CA....everything in the past I've used does nothing to these borgs...thankyou...I'll be trying this tomorrow

I've had mites before, they dont seem like they would need much air either. You'd think they would still be in soil as soil will hold some air no matter how much inert gas you pump in.

Damn man you are one of these MacGyvers lol, a good one!!!! This would work using argon, right?

Thanks guys,all ideas are welcome.


Hey Deft,good observation,I grow in hydroton so the gas can penetrate easily.If you're growing in soil the only way the mites can get on the plant is to crawl up the stalk.If you went around the base of the stalk with some diatamaceous earth or neem oil that should halt the migration.You could also smear some tanglefoot around the stalk as well.

JLP

Hehe, actually climbing isnt the only way, once I took part in cleaning a growroom where every plant had around million mites, seriously, it was horrible, the guy hadnt been there for a week and there was web all over and the fans were blowing the mites in the air..I could almost hear them yell WHOOPEEEE flying with the help of wind from plant to plant...lmao there were a billion at least, a metropolis of mites muaha..

Hey FJ,yeah I think Argon is possible,I just haven't tried it yet.I've got some steel mix but it's 25% CO2 and 75% Argon so I didn't try it.
I use males I'm going to destroy to test on,that way if it does have a bad reaction your not out anything.
I think Argon definately has potential.

JLP

Reynolds oven bags are completely impermeable by gases and would allow the plant to receive some light. Same material used for house fumigations.
You can find huge nylon plastic clear bags at depot too.
One tiny leak and all your gas is gone in short time.
I wonder if you sprayed the bag with a natural pyrethrin and let then suck those fumes for 48 hours.
I can tell you that spiders can survive a house fumigation and that's lethal gas for 24 hours sealed.
Great idea JLP I just wanted to throw a few ideas and tag this thread for on the fly updates......
Stay peaceful

JLP said:

Thanks guys,all ideas are welcome.


Hey Deft,good observation,I grow in hydroton so the gas can penetrate easily.If you're growing in soil the only way the mites can get on the plant is to crawl up the stalk.If you went around the base of the stalk with some diatamaceous earth or neem oil that should halt the migration.You could also smear some tanglefoot around the stalk as well.

JLP

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I've seen it done in trees to keep little buggars off, a lot of the older and more stately trees in my area had to be guarded that way many years ago for an unknown pest, they all have large scar rings around the lower trunk now.

The Slickster said:

Wondering what pure oxygen would do to the plants and or insects?

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Create a bomb...lol. Legit_User's idea of the oven bags is kind of cool. It'll guarantee no leakage once the bags are full and sealed. Problem for me is I'd have to flood my whole room, about 760 cu/ft if I ever had a problem as plants are in slabs. That'd be tough. I like JLP's idea of helium though as it's readily available, fairly inexpensive and if you get a lungful the only problem is you'll sound like Donald Duck for a bit. Be carefull about using too big a bag though as your plants might float away.

JLP - interesting result on using pure CO2. Thanx for experimenting .

Hey JLP when u usd the co2 was the leaves damp? If so the co2 would dissolve in the water and produce carbonic acid. That would explain the discoloration.

JLP said:

Thanks for the input guys.

I did testing using CO2 and found it to be unsuitable as it effects the plants badly.Bad enough to bleach out the leaves within 24 hours.
The reason the Helium doesn't effect it is because the plant was not meant to absorb helium,unlike CO2.It may be that lower ppm causes less effect but the pure Helium produces no effect and in turn no stress on the plant.

Here's a CO2 tested male.It was in a bag full of pure CO2 for 10 minutes.The pic was taken 24 hours later:









JLP

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Interesting Bermboy. Even if they weren't wet going in I'm pretty sure humidit would rise pretty fast inside the bag due to transpiration/respiration to the point where it may even fog up a little.

Thanks guys.

I don't recall the plant being damp.I'll test some more plants,I grow everything from seed so I'm culling males on a regular basis.

JLP