"Bagged Soil + ???" Is there a generically decent recipe for white LEDs? (3/2020)

"Bagged Soil + ???" Is there a generically decent recipe for white LEDs? (3/2020)

Are there any "pre-bagged + something" recipes which work better than just soil under LED? I'm interested in something which has been tested, but willing to collab on something which might.

Mars Hydro, Fluence, Gavita, Spider Farmer, Generic, it seems everyone is producing a 'white light' LED. These lights are also causing cannabis to prefer a different nutrient mix vs. the HID/CFL lighting we've all been using. Pre-bagged soils are mixed for HID and outdoor, and I'll bet there's extensive research behind each mix. My skills are 90% hydro, so I'm fishing for information to test out. Ideally I would like something a newbie can use/mix. 1 bag Happy Frog potting soil + magnesium sulfate + <calcium> + ? = Water till harvest with decent results. Too hot for some genetics, too weak for others, all dependent upon genetics and the environment, but still at least decent results.

Is anyone mixing soils specifically for cannabis and white LEDs? Any grow shows with these products?

Interesting topic, I just bought a spider farmer sf-2000 so I'm subbed. My led of choice has added ir light which supposedly increases the surface leaf temp allowing for more transpiration and more nutrient absorption, well that is what I read anyways.

NFTG #4

I cant say specifically for white leds as I have a mish mash of spectrums. BUT, this round after some more reading, I've been adding extra oyster shell and sulpomag. But I would say I have a well rounded mix. It all started with Bluesky Organics super soil..which I found slightly weak, seedlings have no issues with it. Since then I've added the following:
Ewc
dolomite lime
oyster shell
kelp meal
fishbone meal
alfalfa
Rock phosphate
blood meal
glacial rock dust
Greensand
Feather meal
Mineralized phosphate
Bone meal
Langbeinite
Soluble seaweed extract

I've kept the whole led needs in mind when doing this. The next amending will include gypsum. I'm aiming for that high calcium content and attempting to keep everything balanced...seems to be working so far *fingers crossed*

Get your temperatures up to help with transpiration. That’s what is different between hID and LED. That’s why you see mag and calcium deficiencies. Having more in the soil might help a little but will come at the expense of other nutrients.

I use Roots 707 by itself under a Nextlight mini.



Real happy with the results.

I'm not even training for it yet.

I think what it is, the plants are no longer suffering under the heat of an HPS and they seem hungry because they are finally growing like they are supposed to.

If you want to see what your light is made of, try a CD. I used Diablo 2 here to see what my light is putting out.





Cheap Light Meter

'Boogieman' said:

Interesting topic, I just bought a spider farmer sf-2000 so I'm subbed. My led of choice has added ir light which supposedly increases the surface leaf temp allowing for more transpiration and more nutrient absorption, well that is what I read anyways.

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Ty, I've read a few reports of IR being beneficial for transpiration rates. I find a high transpiration rate to make quality easier, because lower rates make feed levels trickier. The higher the transpiration rate, the more leeway you have with mistakes in strength of nutrients/amendments when the environment changes.

prune said:

NFTG #4

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Thank you, this is interesting. So you are saying NFTG #4 does not need anything for the newer LEDs except water? Do you know of any grow shows of this yet?

Fitzera said:

I'm aiming for that high calcium content and attempting to keep everything balanced...seems to be working so far *fingers crossed*

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Greatly appreciate the recipe, and I'm definitely interested in any future results and details. Awesome.

Joeyjoejoe1234 said:

Get your temperatures up to help with transpiration. That’s what is different between hID and LED. That’s why you see mag and calcium deficiencies. Having more in the soil might help a little but will come at the expense of other nutrients.

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This is also something I've read in more than a few places, with the last sentence having a large impact on my thoughts here.

On the one hand I'm not a fan of temps above 69F/20C in the grow room, so upping the temp is not something I'm initially considering. Now, if it can be proven LEDs can grow Cool/Dry quality cannabis in a warm environment I'm all in. At this point I'm pursuing the Infra-Red option for increasing transpiration first.

Sconeofark said:

I use Roots 707 by itself under a Nextlight mini.

I think what it is, the plants are no longer suffering under the heat of an HPS and they seem hungry because they are finally growing like they are supposed to.r

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Interesting and thank you. May I ask your temps/RH averages for night and day? The more information we can post on working solutions the better.

Thank you everyone, already off to a good start here which gives me hope we're on the right track.

Douglas.Curtis said:

On the one hand I'm not a fan of temps above 69F/20C in the grow room, so upping the temp is not something I'm initially considering.

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Why not? If my led flowering room is 20C that is cause for immediate action because I know there are going to be "deficiencies" in a week's time. Hell it just happened to me again in december. 19C days and colder nights... Had to close the room, change ducting, etc. It took a long time because I was sick so the plants looked fucked up. after it got to 25, 27C everything turned green and vigorous again. Easier to change the temperature than to dive into the absolute rabbit hole of soil mixes and nutrients.

Sssup!
I just finished mixing some soil for the new run....
The room has 2500w LEDs from spectrum king...
I made 30%limed peat (limed with Calcium Carbonate, Dolomite,Gypsum) 30%buffered coco 30%perlite and 10% Ewc..no any other nutrients added

i will feed accordigly to needs this


Megacrop + Epsom salts + ncalmag till 3rd week of flowerin and Maxibloom +Calcium oxide (Canna Mono) + epsom salts till last week



With this formulas last run i finally managed to avoid deficiencies, green and happy under that ultrabrightness!!!!


Before of that formula i did two run with 65%limed peat 10%ewc and 25%perlite with an organic mix of minerals and animal meals ina proportion that always gave me great results outdoor or with HID and under LED turned kind of like a disaster....extremely hungry plants....
ATM i gave up on preparing the soil with nutes cause i feel is too complicated now with the high demands of the environment to get the right balance that doesent burn but it delivers constantly generous amount of N ca Mg K......but im pretty sure that soon with more experience we will get to that!!

SuperBadGrower said:

Why not? If my led flowering room is 20C that is cause for immediate action because I know there are going to be "deficiencies" in a week's time. Hell it just happened to me again in december. 19C days and colder nights... Had to close the room, change ducting, etc. It took a long time because I was sick so the plants looked fucked up. after it got to 25, 27C everything turned green and vigorous again. Easier to change the temperature than to dive into the absolute rabbit hole of soil mixes and nutrients.
View attachment 524128
View attachment 524129

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There is a growing contingent of growers (that Douglas and myself belong to) that believe that there are volatile monoterpenes that cook off at temps over 70*F. We like to grow our flower in cool dry climates because side by side testing has shown us that flower grown cool/dry is superior in smell and taste.

Subbed for this ride. I am running some hlg quantum boards. They definitely need more nutrients with the new LEDs.

GOT_BUD? said:

There is a growing contingent of growers (that Douglas and myself belong to) that believe that there are volatile monoterpenes that cook off at temps over 70*F. We like to grow our flower in cool dry climates because side by side testing has shown us that flower grown cool/dry is superior in smell and taste.

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I see, that's an interesting take, and I can definitely get on board with that Idea. However, I think if you go for that approach, you should simply push the plants less, and thus lower the yield expectation. I.e., give them less light, DLI or PPFD however you want to call it. Because when the temperature is low the plant doesn't seem to be able to metabolize fast enough to deal with very high intensity light. I'm not well-read about this, but I think this is what I recall. Similarly, in nature, colder days in the growing season are usually correlated with less DLI due to clouds. I don't think any nutrient solution is going to solve that 'problem', to me it seems biological, but who knows.
I definitely like cold and dry, but preferably in the last 2 weeks. Otherwise I kinda see it as wasted growing potential. For sure vegging in a winter bedroom requires me to lower the light intensity compared to when it is summer
=)

Douglas.Curtis said:

Thank you, this is interesting. So you are saying NFTG #4 does not need anything for the newer LEDs except water? Do you know of any grow shows of this yet?

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That's not what you asked for. My answer was to your original question.

However, if you believe you can grow competitive bud just feeding water, then you should be providing answers, not questions...

May I ask your temps/RH averages for night and day

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I run 75 ish during the light cycle, which is at night, and round 68 in the dark.

RH is relatively low though I have no climate control at all so it varies with the weather.

So perfect conditions.

When I ran HPS in there the plants cooked real bad and showed every common sign of stress.

Now its just a touch of red.

Sconeofark said:

RH is relatively low though I have no climate control at all so it varies with the weather.

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Thank you, and yes indeed everything is relative. Would you happen to have any numbers on the 'relatively low' RH in your area? Seasonal average is fine.

prune said:

That's not what you asked for. My answer was to your original question.

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My original question was 'Bagged soil + ???' or soil recipe which works. You answered 'bagged soil.' So, did you mean it's a complete bagged mix for LED(my question to your response)? Did you forget to mention the '+ ???,' help us out here. Ty

SuperBadGrower said:

I see, that's an interesting take, and I can definitely get on board with that Idea. However, I think if you go for that approach, you should simply push the plants less, and thus lower the yield expectation. I.e., give them less light, DLI or PPFD however you want to call it. Because when the temperature is low the plant doesn't seem to be able to metabolize fast enough to deal with very high intensity light. I'm not well-read about this, but I think this is what I recall. Similarly, in nature, colder days in the growing season are usually correlated with less DLI due to clouds. I don't think any nutrient solution is going to solve that 'problem', to me it seems biological, but who knows.

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Very interesting view, and thank you for bringing this up as it's not something I'd even thought of. The DLI in the mountains is full and bright without clouds, while still being a cool and dry environment. Dimming would indeed cut into yield through reduced penetration and overall energy. Since the yield for cool/dry is already reduced, reducing yield further is not appealing. lol When plant number limitations go away, cool and dry becomes significantly more economical using mass clones per run.

So if nutrient uptake is too slow due to the transpiration rate, how to increase transpiration rates without raising temperatures? There's the infra-red angle of heating up the leaves, and I'd love to see someone with a 50/50 LED grow, half with infra-red and half not. I'm getting an infra-red lamp at some point, and will be seeing the differences it makes on a single plant next to others under the same LED setup.

Foliar only works until flowering begins for me, because I don't spray anything during flower. I'm wondering if there's something there which could help pre-flower though?

SuperBadGrower said:

I definitely like cold and dry, but preferably in the last 2 weeks. Otherwise I kinda see it as wasted growing potential.

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I grow for trichome density, resin production, terpene retention and flower structure formation. These qualities begin forming as soon as flowers begin forming, so I'm cool/dry from flip to harvest. I want those monoterpenes to be present through the entire flowering period for maximum polymerization.

IMO, when there are 2 weeks left the flowers already have too much stretch, too much stem content, a lowered trichome density, and the terpene profile is less complex from the missing monoterps. The "Cool/dry flowering" discussion thread in my sig is bringing some interesting details to light.

prune said:

However, if you believe you can grow competitive bud just feeding water, then you should be providing answers, not questions...

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Please read carefully, this discussion is for a recipe or mix which will work 'decent' for all strains. Nobody said anything about 'competitive bud just feeding water.'

20s and 30s with occasional rainy days around 50s

Probably not low compared to your location.

I never see a seasonal effect on the plants indoors here.

DC, I wonder if you vegged them under normal/"optimal" conditions and then lowered your temps and humidity gradually for flowering...if that would result in even more high quality flower. Cause your trichome development isnt during veg, why not get a large dense healthy root system going and then lower the environment factors. I'm not sure if it would be beneficial or would result in stress/deficiencies..

I'll give you something simple

Go 5parts Promix
2-3 parts Ocean Forest or Happy Frog
35% perlite
dolomite as directed
catings if avalible, and grow those fuckers. I've done it for years, if you can afford to use more OF or Happy Frog it'll help more of course. But get the Fox Farm trio and holler and thank me 4mths or so from now seriously

Here's the grow, rock hard buds Mars Hydro SP 250, no dehumidifier for that grow or I know buds wonldve been bigger. Had to pull them a week early or so

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=362317

I recommend making your own soil mix. Do you have worm bins going? You can structure the soil just for your needs. In the long haul I believe you will save money with better results. I'm a believer in trying to achieve 80% calcium saturation and the role sulphur has on terpenes. I just don't think bought soil will get you there without further ammending.