What exactly is in cannabis smoke & how is it affected by cotton & cellulous filters

What exactly is in cannabis smoke & how is it affected by cotton & cellulous filters

This is a topic that I have longed to research and I guess now is as good a time as any. I'll be posting whatever research or information that I find here. And, I would appreciate links to any information you may have to support the thread.

No offense, but I really don't want to hear a lot of opinions. I read a zillion already from people who have used filters or think they know what they are saying or that they do or do not get high using filters. Looking for links to facts and/or research papers.

I'm really more interested in determining the efficiency of standard cotton filters as the ones produced and sold by companies like RAW. And, standard cigarette filters that you find on the pre-made tubes that people use to 'inject' their own cigarettes. These are usually made from a Cellulose Acetate (paper/plastic).

The first thing to determine, and this has been more difficult to find data on than I ever imagined, is EXACTLY what is in the smoke.

OK, it's fire burning leaf so..... a giant part of the smoke is going to simply be carbon.

But, here come the questions... do other molecules attach themselves to the carbon? I don't think that's possible. So, each molecule is going through the filter individually.... yes?

If so, determining the size of the other particles is next.

And, the filtering capabilities of the 2 different filters. Are these rated in microns?

There's quite a bit of reading on cigarettes and cigarette filters but not much on cannabis smoke and filters.

The manufacturer's back in the 60's tried everything. They did find that they can filter out a large part of the bad but when they did, they also realized that they filtered out the taste (terps?). So, they had to find a happy medium.

OMG!!! Kent, with the micronite filter. What a great idea this was. They put tiny particles of asbestos in the filter to 'cool' the smoke. A great idea, in that it would definitely cool down the smoke without filtering out taste but... well, asbestos. LMAO

So, task one. Determine EXACTLY what is in cannabis smoke. And, how large each particle is.

Then, determine the specs on the filters.

Should be a piece of cake. LOL

Now, let me toss out a little hypothetical theory....

Limonene is a HUGE particle. a-Pinene is TINY. Through selective filtering, can I change the taste of the same cannabis by using different filters?

How about this one, THC is HUGE, CBD is tiny... again, filter out the THC for CBD users. How about digital electronic filters that sort, and separate the different compounds in cannabis to tailor it to the individual user.

Or, top of the heap...... a safe cigarette. There's already talk about developing a 'safe' cigarette using cannabis. IMO, this would be the single biggest money maker in the the entire cannabis wheel.

Add all this to the fact that I smoke joints... about 15 to 20 a day. This effort will hit very close to home if I can get some answers.

Thanks for reading and TIA for the contributions.

https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000636

Again, mostly carbon...


Comparison runs using combusted [burned] cannabis presented a strikingly different picture... Review data from the gaseous headspace detected 111 tentatively identified compounds, including THC and CBN. Included were five known PAHs [polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons]. Cannabinoids represented only 12% of the inferred recovered mass; the remaining 88% consisted of extraneous products of combustion."

Now, we're talkin'...

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/tx700275p

cool thread, didn't know the pre rolled cones had a diff filter.
not that I use them but wow, plastic..
As for asbestos.. well...

Very interesting.

This one would be nice if anyone can get the entire paper...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1666924

This is not totally relevant but I found it interesting.

So, even though both tobacco and pot smoke both contain carcinogens, the other stuff in tobacco activates the carcinogens while the other stuff in pot, actually works to NOT activate it. Pretty neat plant, this cannabis thing. LOL

Smoke from tobacco and cannabis contains many of the same carcinogens and tumor promoters [20,21]. However, cannabis and tobacco have additional pharmacological activities, both receptor-dependent and independent, that result in different biological endpoints. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in smoke are pro-carcinogens that are converted to carcinogens by the enzymatic activity of the cytochrome P4501A1 oxidase protein (CYP1A1 gene product). Benzo [a] pyrene is converted to its carcinogenic metabolite diol epoxide, which binds to specific hyper-mutable nucleotide sequences in the K-ras oncogene and p53 tumor suppressor [22]. Recent work by Roth et al. demonstrates that THC treatment of murine hepatoma cells caused a dose dependent increase in CYP1A1 gene transcription, while at the same time directly inhibiting the enzymatic activity of the gene product [23]. Thus, despite potentially higher levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in cannabis smoke compared to tobacco smoke (dependent on what part of the plant is smoked), the THC present in cannabis smoke should exert a protective effect against pro-carcinogens that require activation. In contrast, nicotine activates some CYP1A1 activities, thus potentially increasing the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke [24].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/

A CORESTA Unit is defined as:
"the volumetric flow rate of air (cm3 min-1)
passing through a 1 cm2 sample of substrate
at an applied pressure difference of 1 kPa"



Paper Normal or Porous (6000 to 24000 CU)

Are you talking about what's in "Cannabis" smoke, or what's in *MOST* cannabis smoke? What's the difference? My cannabis is as close to "completely cannabis" as I can possibly get it. No dust, extra nutes, pollen, hair, dander, bug feces, bits of bugs or anything in or on it. Grow style and HEPA filters go a looong way toward the creation of clean cannabis.

The smoke from clean cannabis will be *significantly* less toxic than what people generally call "Cannabis" these days. The smoke is soft, cool in temperature, packed full of flavor and aroma and doesn't irritate your lungs. (Unless it has a high level of irritant terpenes in the profile) And that's fresh dried. With a cure it gets even better.

You can literally smoke it all day, every day, for months and not get even the tiniest smoker's cough. It's very useful for people who are having asthma attacks. A filter would simply detract from the experience.

So... any cannabis, or specifically *clean* cannabis smoke? Huge difference.

I am not in a legal state so the only pot I have is what I grow. And, I know what is in it. I guess I would call it clean. I don't use pesticides. I use mostly organic nutes (but not all). I'm sure there's a certain amount of dust, dog hair and household pollutants in it.

Would that make it dirty? Are you talking clean room clean?

Would it really make that much difference? I'm sure pesticides would but, the other stuff would be in such small amounts as not to tip the scales any one way or the other.

Yes?

I was reading about the supply of pot they used in some of the tests of tobacco vs pot and they didn't mention anything about 'clean' as much as they did the proper and common storage and preparation of both substances. (although some of the results in these papers showed clear presence of pesticides)

Additionally, everything I have read so far seems to focused specifically on the chemical analytes routinely measured in tobacco smoke and ignoring the content of THC, CBD, etc that's in the smoke.

A frustrating task to say the least.LOL

Douglas.Curtis said:

You can literally smoke it all day, every day, for months and not get even the tiniest smoker's cough. It's very useful for people who are having asthma attacks. A filter would simply detract from the experience.

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I am that kind of smoker and I have never ever had a smoker's cough. I will, sometimes get too big of a hit as I roll my joints using RAW 'tips' (the little cardboard rolls) and this really opens up the joint to a nice big hit. And, I may cough a little on that.

Still, a filter would definitely cool the smoke. That's never a bad thing.

I just rolled a joint with a filter and I must admit it took way too much taste out for me.

When you smoke 20 joints a day, your tolerance is so high, you really don't get high any more. Taste and the pleasure of smoking become as important or more so, than the buzz. At least for me. It's all about the cure and the taste. I smoke pot like most people smoke cigarettes.

But, this filter thing has always been a question of mine and I was hoping this forum might have the kind of people who can help me find an answer.

Links should work now...

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/14/us/study-hints-of-lung-danger-in-cigarette-filters.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cigarette-filters-may-increase-lung-cancer-risk_us_5925aaa2e4b0ec129d317eca

Two studies on filters, one about the fibres, the other about ventilation holes.

Thanks Guy. The Huffington Post link is dead. Maybe you can check that and correct it.

Ringodoggie said:

I am that kind of smoker and I have never ever had a smoker's cough. I will, sometimes get too big of a hit as I roll my joints using RAW 'tips' (the little cardboard rolls) and this really opens up the joint to a nice big hit. And, I may cough a little on that.

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You can get the same kind of hit, without the Raw filter. Push a bit of the flower into the end (or remove a bit if it's stuffed a little tight) and use a toothpick, narrow key (subaru), or other tool to tuck the empty paper in on itself. Kind of like packing a shotgun shell, only folded completely against the inside. No need for a filter, opens up the end while holding the flower in.

Ringodoggie said:

Still, a filter would definitely cool the smoke. That's never a bad thing.

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When you get the feed and the fade right, it's like inhaling fragrant and flavorful air. It's cool and soft on your throat and lungs.

Ringodoggie said:

I just rolled a joint with a filter and I must admit it took way too much taste out for me.

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That was my experience as well. lol

Ringodoggie said:

When you smoke 20 joints a day, your tolerance is so high, you really don't get high any more. Taste and the pleasure of smoking become as important or more so, than the buzz. At least for me. It's all about the cure and the taste. I smoke pot like most people smoke cigarettes.

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I'm a 24/7 medicinal user and I know exactly what you mean. I look forward to medicating with clean cannabis, it's a taste and aroma sensation every time. Lick your lips 45 minutes later and say "YUM" because of the terpenes still there. lol

Ringodoggie said:

I am not in a legal state so the only pot I have is what I grow. And, I know what is in it. I guess I would call it clean. I don't use pesticides. I use mostly organic nutes (but not all). I'm sure there's a certain amount of dust, dog hair and household pollutants in it.

Would that make it dirty? Are you talking clean room clean?

Would it really make that much difference? I'm sure pesticides would but, the other stuff would be in such small amounts as not to tip the scales any one way or the other.

Yes?

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HEPA filters. Yes, it makes a huge difference. Wait till you see what your filters look like after 2 months of flower. *Most* of that would have been on your sticky cannabis. (Gross!)

All the dust will increase the heat of the smoke. You'll also notice a burnt flavor getting stronger as you smoke the bowl down. This isn't there with HEPA clean cannabis, again properly fed and faded. It's flavor and aroma, on the inhale and exhale... right down to the last hit in the bowl. Sooooo enjoyable.

Ringodoggie said:

I was reading about the supply of pot they used in some of the tests of tobacco vs pot and they didn't mention anything about 'clean' as much as they did the proper and common storage and preparation of both substances. (although some of the results in these papers showed clear presence of pesticides)

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Yes, very frustrating. I'd imagine it'll be quite some time before testing of really clean cannabis is normal. Honestly, there really aren't that many growers producing it. When we do, not many people get to sample it. Doing my part to change that. lol

Well, I gotta say that this quest is dying a horrible death. LOL

I can not believe the lack of information and research on what's in cannabis smoke.

I probably know more about cigarette smoke and cigarette filters than RJ Reynolds but I can't find shit on cannabis smoke.

You would think that someone would have put some time into this. There are a zillion posts and papers about what is on the raw cannabis plant but absolutely zero on what's in the smoke.

Given that smoking or vaping is still probably the most common method of cannabis ingestion, I find it odd that there are no studies on it.

What few studies I did find only compared the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]analytes that are typically in cigarettes.

Standard cotton filters are out of the question. Simply takes too much away. Might be different with the high CBD strain I have coming up. I hear the high CBD strains have shitty taste. However, I am still looking for a way to cool it down. Maybe I'm a pussy or maybe I take too big of a hit. But, I can cough a good one if I take too much.

Very frustrating project.
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Canna-Tsu cut I'm growing is 20%+ CBD and tastes like orange citrus. Very nice

No smoke is clean. Ever look in a ganja pipe after heavy use? Lot's of crude.

Smoke less, vape more. Edibles and tinctues are also good and well. Vapes just are not all there yet for hash. More centered around oil/shatter/wax.

But there is something very calming about smoke if used rarely. Just a bit painful to stay away from when nothing else to use while cleaning the tract.

Easy7 said:

No smoke is clean. Ever look in a ganja pipe after heavy use? Lot's of crude.

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Clean cannabis is mostly vaped cannabinoids and terpenes when burned. The "resin" looks a lot like reclaim. Seriously, clean cannabis is a rarity and everyone is used to what dirty cannabis causes and smokes like.

Live with the idea there's a better world out there. With time and work you'll reach it.

There is no such thing as clean combustion. I have grown and smoked enough of my own to know it's not going to get anymore pristine. Dirty weed hardly even smokes if it's chem ladden. I enjoy smoke, but I know there is too much of a good thing. Even the purest oil will combust and leave pollutant residue on material. There is always some component to combustion. Plus burning plant material releases a lot of nasties. Those add to the complex taste. There are some thousand chems in coffee, that all shape the flavor.

I have a taste for talakia tobacco. It's smoke cured and takes on a woodie flavor reminiscent of opium and fine ganja. Just a hint of the complex world of chemicals and taste. Honestly it smells bad in the tin, and is best after abstaining and clearing the pallet.

All smoke is going to have carbon. No doubt about that. And, there's no good in the carbon, that's pretty much for sure also.

That was one reason for the research. Filtering out the carbon and nothing else would definitely seem beneficial.