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:::::::Jesus and 'The Holy Bible':::::::
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TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
There's lots. But....
In a remote corner of the Roman empire, a holy man preaches a message of peace. He feeds the hungry, heals the sic, and raises the dead. His follower even call him god. His name? Apollonius of Tyana and he's was one of several competing for followers who was born at the time of Jesus with followers of every caste. He lived to a ripe old age and was lifted into heaven.
At the time, the roman empire was absorbing cultures from most of the known world. Roman gods collided with the gods of Persia, Egypt and Israel. Miracle workers, some said to be born of virgins, appeared across the empire preaches spiritual truths.
At the same time, Simon Magus, who is mentioned in the bible, said Jesus was the embodiment of the holy trinity. He was the embodiment of the holy spirit.
Another Jewish messiah Simon bar Kokhba, a descendant of King Davis like Jesus, preached war against rome, not peace. He wiped out an entire roman legion and freed Jerusalem. But rome simply sent it's whole army and wiped them out.
Mithras was a roman soldiers messiah. Born of a virgin on December 25th, shared a final meal before being called to heaven, was resurrected and returned to earth as the son of god. His follwer were more than those of Jesus, and even drank wine and ate bread in his name.
Next was the Holy Mother of God. Isis. The wife of Osiris, king of the gods. She had a child of a virgin birth or Horus, and women practiced abstinence, so men hated her. lol
John the baptists was not a follower of Jesus. He was a rival. In Turkey, people followed the teachings of John the Baptist. John was the Christ, not Jesus. They were called "The Mandaeans" Today, there are 100,000 members world wide.
The Jesus in the "Nag Hammadi Library", is nothing like the Jesus of the bible. The Gnostics almost had a member elected as Pope even. He was a man, not a god, only the son of god. Gnostic Jesus was married to Mary Madeleine, never died on the cross. In the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter, Jesus transcends his human nature completely. He leaves his body during the crucifixion and the roman crucifies an illusion, and the real Jesus watches from the sidelines and mocks their attempt to kill the immortal son of god.
There are even stories about Cleopatra having a son that was sent to live with Joseph and Mary so he wouldn't be killed by Caesar.
With so much history.... where do you turn? Something my dad or mom or preacher said was true? Thankfully my mother believed we should find our own answers.
(mostly from "the rivals of jesus")
W
Water-
zero archaeological evidence and zero written evidence from his supposed lifetime
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
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M
moose eater
I've figured the KJ Bible offers LOTS of useful parables; lessons that might be used to make us better beings.
It also offers violence and knee-jerk destruction that rivals any Jihadist's views.
The thousands of years it has been used by governments and despots to justify abuses toward the disempowered, and the 'hell-fire and brimstone' message left in my memories by zealots, both recent and not, has me leery of whole-heartedly accepting the validity of the God the KJ Bible-thumpers often profess to be The One.
There's been enough carnage that COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED by a truly Omnipotent Being, that I've joked half-seriously with friends and acquaintances, as a devout Agnostic, with a liberal Christian background (who lived in a Jesus Commune at age 13, when I hit the road initially), that -IF- there's a Judgment Day, I'll go where ever I'm sent, obviously. But I first want a chance to poke the Big Man/Woman/Gaseous Entity -squarely- in the eye, for all the BS S/He let go down, that they supposedly COULD'VE stopped.
In that light, if what I was taught is true, then the Almighty has been complicit in heinous crimes against decent persons, and there's no forgiveness in my heart for that.
That's aside from the claims that God made us in His/Her image, and the human race, being as fucked up as it is (the poster child for an 'invasive species'), would then, theoretically, be evidence that what ever Supreme Being we were modeled after, is at least as equally fucked up as we are..
My favorite verse? "There is not one good. Nay, not one."
But even more favorite is:
"Father forgive us for what we must do. You forgive us, we'll forgive you. We'll forgive each other 'til we both turn blue, then we'll whistle and go fishin' in Heaven...." (John Prine)
It can be hard not knowing for sure. But I think it's more honest.
And yes, at 40,000 ft. at 550 miles/hour, in severe turbulence, I can pray with the best of them....
It also offers violence and knee-jerk destruction that rivals any Jihadist's views.
The thousands of years it has been used by governments and despots to justify abuses toward the disempowered, and the 'hell-fire and brimstone' message left in my memories by zealots, both recent and not, has me leery of whole-heartedly accepting the validity of the God the KJ Bible-thumpers often profess to be The One.
There's been enough carnage that COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED by a truly Omnipotent Being, that I've joked half-seriously with friends and acquaintances, as a devout Agnostic, with a liberal Christian background (who lived in a Jesus Commune at age 13, when I hit the road initially), that -IF- there's a Judgment Day, I'll go where ever I'm sent, obviously. But I first want a chance to poke the Big Man/Woman/Gaseous Entity -squarely- in the eye, for all the BS S/He let go down, that they supposedly COULD'VE stopped.
In that light, if what I was taught is true, then the Almighty has been complicit in heinous crimes against decent persons, and there's no forgiveness in my heart for that.
That's aside from the claims that God made us in His/Her image, and the human race, being as fucked up as it is (the poster child for an 'invasive species'), would then, theoretically, be evidence that what ever Supreme Being we were modeled after, is at least as equally fucked up as we are..
My favorite verse? "There is not one good. Nay, not one."
But even more favorite is:
"Father forgive us for what we must do. You forgive us, we'll forgive you. We'll forgive each other 'til we both turn blue, then we'll whistle and go fishin' in Heaven...." (John Prine)
It can be hard not knowing for sure. But I think it's more honest.
And yes, at 40,000 ft. at 550 miles/hour, in severe turbulence, I can pray with the best of them....
Thanks! I know Jesus lived 400 years after The Old Testement where Moses wandered with God's people in the wilderness as a Holy Nation. Yeah, I have heard of some documentaries about Jesus. I will have to see what I can find.
There is a lot we can learn about ourselves with God's Word. Its describes how God and people interact. It helps people to find purpose and I believe its spiritual. Some people have a really negative, bad spirit. Maybe there is something going on or health issues perhaps. But when someone has the Spirit of God, they understand the big picture and truth, and are happier and more aware.
Its a hope of things to come. We wait for God to work!
If we don't see Him working in something, we move on. God is always alive in christians lives who obey Him. Thanks for studying Jesus with me guys!
Do you guys believe that good and evil exist? Is that an indicator of an intelligent creator? Definitely intelligent design evident in creation.
Here's something to think about, I got this off another discussion forum.
I don't need any of this though. Once you accept the Spirit of Jesus into your heart, and pray His name, you are born again.
Here's something to think about, I got this off another discussion forum.
I don't need any of this though. Once you accept the Spirit of Jesus into your heart, and pray His name, you are born again.
Evidence of God is found in one's faith, not the belief in man's construct of God.
The ancient scriptures are completely open to interpretation.
However, there does seem to be a strong argument for cannabis
and its use in biblical times. Just like the apostle Mark wrote in Mark 6:13,
"to be rubbed with the Holy Plant was to “receive divine knowledge.”
There is hope in scripture after all, take heed.
The ancient scriptures are completely open to interpretation.
However, there does seem to be a strong argument for cannabis
and its use in biblical times. Just like the apostle Mark wrote in Mark 6:13,
"to be rubbed with the Holy Plant was to “receive divine knowledge.”
There is hope in scripture after all, take heed.
I have travelled far and wide in this old world - and have never seen, nor never needed any god for anything - I've been quite happy spending all 59 years of my life without having to be the servant or part of 'the flock' of some invisible wizard that is supposed to be our salvation from ourselves - or something.
The thought of getting on my knees and praying to some abstract psychological construct thru some sort of spiritual channel I am supposed to find by praying continuously is almost comical in my mind - since I did actually try this a couple of times - but to no avail.
If its all about faith - then the only faith you really need is in yourself - to have faith in yourself - a confident and conscientious person with an analytical mind can usually see past what has mainly been used to control the majority of people for the benefit of a few - for thousands of years.
If I am religious at all - then its all wrapped up in a one-liner from Jiminy Cricket in 'Pinnochio' - 'Let your conscience be your guide'....
The thought of getting on my knees and praying to some abstract psychological construct thru some sort of spiritual channel I am supposed to find by praying continuously is almost comical in my mind - since I did actually try this a couple of times - but to no avail.
If its all about faith - then the only faith you really need is in yourself - to have faith in yourself - a confident and conscientious person with an analytical mind can usually see past what has mainly been used to control the majority of people for the benefit of a few - for thousands of years.
If I am religious at all - then its all wrapped up in a one-liner from Jiminy Cricket in 'Pinnochio' - 'Let your conscience be your guide'....
Sunshineinabag
Active member
I've figured the KJ Bible offers LOTS of useful parables; lessons that might be used to make us better beings.
It also offers violence and knee-jerk destruction that rivals any Jihadist's views.
The thousands of years it has been used by governments and despots to justify abuses toward the disempowered, and the 'hell-fire and brimstone' message left in my memories by zealots, both recent and not, has me leery of whole-heartedly accepting the validity of the God the KJ Bible-thumpers often profess to be The One.
There's been enough carnage that COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED by a truly Omnipotent Being, that I've joked half-seriously with friends and acquaintances, as a devout Agnostic, with a liberal Christian background (who lived in a Jesus Commune at age 13, when I hit the road initially), that -IF- there's a Judgment Day, I'll go where ever I'm sent, obviously. But I first want a chance to poke the Big Man/Woman/Gaseous Entity -squarely- in the eye, for all the BS S/He let go down, that they supposedly COULD'VE stopped.
In that light, if what I was taught is true, then the Almighty has been complicit in heinous crimes against decent persons, and there's no forgiveness in my heart for that.
That's aside from the claims that God made us in His/Her image, and the human race, being as fucked up as it is (the poster child for an 'invasive species'), would then, theoretically, be evidence that what ever Supreme Being we were modeled after, is at least as equally fucked up as we are..
My favorite verse? "There is not one good. Nay, not one."
But even more favorite is:
"Father forgive us for what we must do. You forgive us, we'll forgive you. We'll forgive each other 'til we both turn blue, then we'll whistle and go fishin' in Heaven...." (John Prine)
It can be hard not knowing for sure. But I think it's more honest.
And yes, at 40,000 ft. at 550 miles/hour, in severe turbulence, I can pray with the best of them....
My elders had to hide and whisper that our people were handed down to earth in a basket......because Christian's decided it was best our oral traditions and way of life be supplanted by thier beliefs .....forcing native children in christain schools were they were mercilessly berated,abused and sexually exploited.......that's the proof I've seen to in real life to stay the fuk away from christians
Sunshineinabag
Active member
They basically starting a beginner Yoda class with the kneeling...
Now just avoid the book and focus on exercise and human interactions instead of preech....pass around the collection plate all the while skirting taxes cough....Frank Zappa wrote a song about it... heavenly bank account! Tax the churches! Tax the buisnesses owned by the churches! A great start imho....for here in the twisted States of America
The way I interpret Matthew 6:5 is that Jesus doesn't want us in a church.
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for. they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the. corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men."
He goes on to say that if you want to pray, go back into an empty area and pray. Then tells you exactly how to pray and what to say ( the Lord's prayer).
Never does he tell you to pray to him for a better life. I hear people praying asking for wealth, or safe travels, it just to have a good day.
In another part of the Bible ( 2nd Corinthians I believe)in the new testament it says that women are not ever to speak in church. If she has a question, to wait until alone with her husband.
How many Christian women agree with this?
My point being.. people just select parts they want and ignore the rest.
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for. they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the. corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men."
He goes on to say that if you want to pray, go back into an empty area and pray. Then tells you exactly how to pray and what to say ( the Lord's prayer).
Never does he tell you to pray to him for a better life. I hear people praying asking for wealth, or safe travels, it just to have a good day.
In another part of the Bible ( 2nd Corinthians I believe)in the new testament it says that women are not ever to speak in church. If she has a question, to wait until alone with her husband.
How many Christian women agree with this?
My point being.. people just select parts they want and ignore the rest.
Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Was reading about Solzhenitsyn earlier, interesting guy.
' As a survivor of the Communist Holocaust I am horrified to witness how my beloved America, my adopted country, is gradually being transformed into a secularist and atheistic utopia, where communist ideals are glorified and promoted, while Judeo-Christian values and morality are ridiculed and increasingly eradicated from the public and social consciousness of our nation. Under the decades-long assault and militant radicalism of many so-called “liberal” and “progressive” elites, God has been progressively erased from our public and educational institutions, to be replaced with all manner of delusion, perversion, corruption, violence, decadence, and insanity.
It is no coincidence that as Marxist ideologies and secularist principles engulf the culture and pervert mainstream thinking, individual freedoms and liberties are rapidly disappearing. As a consequence, Americans feel increasingly more powerless and subjugated by some of the most radical and hypocritical, least democratic, and characterless individuals our society has ever produced.
Those of us who have experienced and witnesses first-hand the atrocities and terror of communism understand fully why such evil takes root, how it grows and deceives, and the kind of hell it will ultimately unleash on the innocent and the faithful. Godlessness is always the first step towards tyranny and oppression!
Nobel laureate, Orthodox Christian author, and Russian dissident, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, in his “Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” address, given when he received the Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983, explained how the Russian revolution and the communist takeover were facilitated by an atheistic mentality an a long process of secularization which alienated the people from God and traditional Christian morality and beliefs. He rightly concluded: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”
' As a survivor of the Communist Holocaust I am horrified to witness how my beloved America, my adopted country, is gradually being transformed into a secularist and atheistic utopia, where communist ideals are glorified and promoted, while Judeo-Christian values and morality are ridiculed and increasingly eradicated from the public and social consciousness of our nation. Under the decades-long assault and militant radicalism of many so-called “liberal” and “progressive” elites, God has been progressively erased from our public and educational institutions, to be replaced with all manner of delusion, perversion, corruption, violence, decadence, and insanity.
It is no coincidence that as Marxist ideologies and secularist principles engulf the culture and pervert mainstream thinking, individual freedoms and liberties are rapidly disappearing. As a consequence, Americans feel increasingly more powerless and subjugated by some of the most radical and hypocritical, least democratic, and characterless individuals our society has ever produced.
Those of us who have experienced and witnesses first-hand the atrocities and terror of communism understand fully why such evil takes root, how it grows and deceives, and the kind of hell it will ultimately unleash on the innocent and the faithful. Godlessness is always the first step towards tyranny and oppression!
Nobel laureate, Orthodox Christian author, and Russian dissident, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, in his “Godlessness: the First Step to the Gulag” address, given when he received the Templeton Prize for Progress in Religion on May of 1983, explained how the Russian revolution and the communist takeover were facilitated by an atheistic mentality an a long process of secularization which alienated the people from God and traditional Christian morality and beliefs. He rightly concluded: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”
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W
Water-
While digesting Reader's Digest in the back of a dirty book store
A plastic flag, with gum on the back fell out on the floor
Well, I picked it up and I ran outside, slapped it on my window shield
And if I could see old Betsy Ross I'd tell her how good I feel
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
Well, I went to the bank this morning and the cashier he said to me
"If you join the Christmas club we'll give you ten of them flags for free"
Well, I didn't mess around a bit, I took him up on what he said
And I stuck them stickers all over my car and one on my wife's forehead
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
Well, I got my window shield so filled with flags I couldn't see
So, I ran the car upside a curb and right into a tree
By the time they got a doctor down I was already dead
And I'll never understand why the man standing in the pearly gates said
"But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
We're already overcrowded from your dirty little war"
"Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore"
Songwriter: John Prine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ge8dHg7R6U
A plastic flag, with gum on the back fell out on the floor
Well, I picked it up and I ran outside, slapped it on my window shield
And if I could see old Betsy Ross I'd tell her how good I feel
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
Well, I went to the bank this morning and the cashier he said to me
"If you join the Christmas club we'll give you ten of them flags for free"
Well, I didn't mess around a bit, I took him up on what he said
And I stuck them stickers all over my car and one on my wife's forehead
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
Well, I got my window shield so filled with flags I couldn't see
So, I ran the car upside a curb and right into a tree
By the time they got a doctor down I was already dead
And I'll never understand why the man standing in the pearly gates said
"But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
We're already overcrowded from your dirty little war"
"Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore"
Songwriter: John Prine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ge8dHg7R6U
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
I agree he's an interesting fellow. But...
You're saying I can't be a good person unless i believe in god? I call bullshit.
A society's religious beliefs doesn't guarantee your safety. If anything, it risks it.
Yes, I agree! I guess I meant christians will notice, acknowledge, and try to be a part of the works of God they see in the world.
M
moose eater
My elders had to hide and whisper that our people were handed down to earth in a basket......because Christian's decided it was best our oral traditions and way of life be supplanted by thier beliefs .....forcing native children in christain schools were they were mercilessly berated,abused and sexually exploited.......that's the proof I've seen to in real life to stay the fuk away from christians
In 1971, a group of folks began turning one such residential school into an alternative community school, in the mountains of the Yukon Territory. Our experiment closed of its own volition June 29, 1979, though maybe those left there should've tried to maintain its mission.
The residential Indian boarding school had been started by Bishop Bompass in the very late 1800's. Bompass was Anglican.
All of the horror stories you posted were present there until the 1960s.
Later, when we were operating what came to be nick-named, The Hippie School, we would host sporting games (softball, etc.) and dinners for anyone who wished to come, including from the nearby Village.. The elders would stay away. Not because of us, or our gig, but because of their history with that school in years gone by, as it had been run under Bishop Bompass & the Anglican Church..
Sexual abuse, corporal punishment for any culturally-synched garb, or for speaking their original languages, TB, other sickness, and sometimes death. All of that occurred there.. in a religious boarding school.
When one of the Carcross-Taggish Band Elders who'd been alive for the earlier stint there came to a formal Hippie School reunion a handful of years ago, he stated that the hippies taking the place over filled the place with a different, better spirit, and was a good thing.
Personally I believe he was not completely informed as to OUR functions or short-comings, as we carried some of the same hypocrisy found nearly anywhere people exist. But the ills that had kept some of the elders away from our gatherings were a fair bit different than our ills, at least in specificity..
The period at that school involving Bishop Bompass had been about assimilation of conquered and disrespected persons. The same as it has always been. And assimilation included forcing religious beliefs upon others, and punishing them when they failed to comply with their new instructions.
I think it was General Westmoreland, referencing SE Asia's 'Police Action,' who said what I look back on to be a part of the fuel of ignorance in much of these sorts of efforts; "Inside every Gook is an American trying to get out." I suspect Bompass and those like him believed the same about the First Nations Peoples whose children they stole for purposes of 'assimilation' into non-Native, Euro-culture. Or what some might more accurately label as concentrated efforts toward 'cultural genocide.'
I apologize for what some of my ancestors did to some of yours.
