RQS Quick-One Auto: Discoloured, Spotted Leaves, why?!

Hi folks!

This is an Auto Indica-Hybrid, RQS Quick-One Auto (Indica Old School x Ruderalis) meant to go from seed to harvest in 8 weeks. This is week 5 and in the last week or so the plant started displaying a weird spotted, discolored, unhealthy appearance.

It's growing indoor, soil, with another "sister" both germinated from seed at the same time. Its sister doesn't display the same unhealthy look but leaves tend to curl upwards but in general the other is way better looking.

They share their space with 2 RQS Bluematic (Blueberry x Afghani x Ruderalis). These 2 girls, which are supposed to take 1-2 weeks more to finish, are in fact much more into flowering and look much healthier and I feed them by prescribed schedule and all of them get the same amount of fertilizers (Canna Terra Line).

First the sick one, 3 pics, whole plant, vision from above and a leaf detail:

RQS_Quick-One_Auto#1


Pic#2


Pic#3



To give you a general idea this is one of the two "Bluematic":


This is RQS_Quick-One_Auto#2_(theoretically the "healthy" one):



All plants are between 2-2,5 feet, LST-only, little defoliation.

Grow Tent 3x3x6
Tot. Plants: 4
Germinated: 18th June
Environment: 76°-85°F. - RH 46-55% - PH 5.8-6.2 - EC 0,2

Thanks in Advance for your help! And forgive me...it's my first time!

Thank you!

First I would say define soil. Peat n perlite? Compost?

Showing multiple deficiences makes me think the medium pH is out of range.

How are you watering? (Frequency, the amount of run off) Do the plants feel top heavy?

Watering details, Feeding-Chart and Soil Tests

Watering details, Feeding-Chart and Soil Tests

Mikell said:

First I would say define soil. Peat n perlite? Compost?

Showing multiple deficiences makes me think the medium pH is out of range.

How are you watering? (Frequency, the amount of run off) Do the plants feel top heavy?

Click to expand...

Medium Composition: Spaghnum peat-moss + Perlite + Vermiculite

I feed them 4 times/week MON_WED_FRI_SUN following this chart to the "T" (4Liters=1 Gal=1/4 Gal*Each Plant):



I'm feeding the RED Box. I have a hard time understanding which chart should I follow, as the chart is for photoperiod plants, I have Autos and not any auto, these are meant to go from seed >>> harvest in 8 weeks (the Quick-Ones - the unhealthy ones btw) and 9 weeks seed >>> harvest the other 2 (Bluematic).

How should I read the feeding chart for the coming weeks?!

When the chart rarely says a min-max value (as per BOOST 8-16ml in the chart pic I generally make an average on the lower side, like 10-12ml in this example).

After I prepared the water+fert. I correct PH-(my normal water is PH 7,51) with Nitrogen Acid NHO 3% (Canna PH-) during Vegetative phase, now I prefer using Citric Acid as I read it helps in making Phosphorous available as a chelate.

As suggested in the Canna-Chart I water with PH 6.0 (5.8-6.2).

TUE_THU_SAT I water (always around 1 Gal for the whole 4 girls):

1/4 Gal of Compost-Tea (homebrewed!)
1/4 Gal of Willow-Tea (as above)
2/4 Gal of A/C Water
Correct PH- as above.

Total I water 1/4 Gal/Plant/Day, 4 days feeding mineral, 3 days feeding organic. No dry days, no water-ONLY days.

In the 3 days I water "organically", I'd add some GuanoKong (I did it once, 50 grams, 12,5gr./plant), once a week I add some organic Humic Acids and once a week I add Aminoacids, always the average between min/max suggested by industry (2-5ml I put 3ml --- 1-4ml I put 2ml)

Yesterday I decided to test soil PH, I followed a tutorial saying to water the soil the max water it can hold, no more, nor less. Then leave it for 24hrs.

I tested it now and these are the results of Soil Tests:

PH 6,51
EC 7,51
TDS 390ppm

If you can help me interpreting these soil numbers I'll thank you! It looks too "light" with the only 390ppm of TDS ...but I really have no clue about what these numbers should be regarding soil. Obv in feeding water PH is too high and both EC & TDS are too low...but in the soil wouldn't it be normal that the plants intake their needs lowering the values?! PH is slightly high maybe...but it doesn't seem so bad at first glance (of an ignorant, LOL).

Thanks indeed for your help! It's sad closing into harvest and seeing 2 out of 4 girls showing bad signs... ;(

Nothing has changed btw...2 good looking ones looking even better, 2 bad looking ones still looking bad!

Are those bugs I see on the undersides of the fan leaves? I think I’d give them a good inspection for pests.

FLUSH and Re-feed

What Mikell said ... maybe shallow saucer under pots to assist water soaking into growing medium ...

Teddybrae said:

FLUSH and Re-feed

What Mikell said ... maybe shallow saucer under pots to assist water soaking into growing medium ...

Click to expand...

Actually there are meant to be saucers....it's just that they are 2 inches short so only the centre really touches the saucer...but I never over-watered them to the point of letting water drain throughly.

I always watered little by little every day.

And...about pests?! Do, they don't have any. I pesonally took 'em out of the tent, one by one, inspect them under daylight with leds off. No, they don't have any pests. I inspected the soil as well ans roots are growing well, making a big bundle of small "white hairs"...nothing.

Consideerd also that the other 2 plants are doing geat, no issues and superhealthy.

Just a quick note to water to heavy run off and remove excess water immediately.

Could it be some sort of spider mite or rousset mite, not visible with the naked eye?!

No the problem with "top off" style watering is you are letting salt build up and a different ratio of nutrients than what you are applying.

Water to run off at least once a week.

How did you test the soil? It sounds like saturated media extract but I don't see the end part mentioned. A slurry test of multiple horizons is a more accurate and accepted method.

Mikell said:

No the problem with "top off" style watering is you are letting salt build-up and a different ratio of nutrients than what you are applying.

Water to run off at least once a week.

Click to expand...

Okay...I got your point. You can top-off but considering the salt accumulation and reducing the dosage of feeding accordingly. Thanks!

Mikell said:

How did you test the soil? It sounds like saturated media extract but I don't see the end part mentioned. A slurry test of multiple horizons is a more accurate and accepted method.

Click to expand...

Yep. Is what I did. I mixed distilled water with soil and analyzed the output which (ouch, I haven't kept a record, blame me!) was PH 6.4 ...but I don't remember EC and TDS I'm sorry.

What is the slurry test of multiple horizons? First time I come across this and...I have no clue about what it is. But I'll be more than happy to read you...or if you don't fancy writing you could gimme a couple of links to dig through...

Hope to read from you soon, ty!

Mikell said:

https://www.greenhousegrower.com/pr...gh-method-and-saturated-media-extract-methods

Click to expand...

Hi Mikell,
I read through the info on the link you posted. I used the Saturated Media Extract method, but I did it wrong because I used tap water, not distilled one. Would it be ok if I use demineralized water instead of distilled one?
Dunno why but lately it's not so easy to find distilled water while you can find demineralized water everywhere. The difference is that the latter contains bacteria & stuff, is not sterile, but it has EC 0. Is it good?

Question: Is it bad/good/makes no difference using the water from the A/C for the crop? I thought it's good as it's softer water (EC 0.3 instead of 0.4) but maybe it doesn't...considerations on this?

After having flushed, left 24 hrs to dry, fed the following day (I gave em 1/3 of what says the chart), dry again, today topped-off (1gal for 4 plants) with bio-fertilizer only (humic acids, amino acids, bat guano, melassa) and again I gave only 1/3 of what is written in the bottles. Tomorrow I'll feed lightly again (1/3rd) and next day is water only.

Let's say the diagnosis was correct: "multiple deficiencies caused by salts built up and blocked the ability of the plant to uptake its nutrients".
I flushed and re-fed.

(This afternoon I'll look for the distilled water and go on with the actual measurements of the soil PH, EC, TDS using the Saturated Media Method as explained in the link you kindly shared, then I'll post results)

If the diagnosis is correct, treatments should be fine, when and what indicators would show I'm on the right path? I doubt the leaves would restore themselves...

I also decided to put a sticky trap, just to see if I had any pests. I found 3-4 incredibly small gnats, like 1/8in max, but maaaxxx.

Result:


(at this page: https://ibb.co/MfCHfVJ you can find the original pic of the gnat in full HD so that you can zoom it more and clearly at your preference)

Is this Fungus Gnat? Thrips? None of them? In 24hrs I found 4 stuck to the trap...but they look too small...maybe...

Bump!

Looks like fungus gnats but without a better picture I can’t say for sure. Sounds like you’re on the right track, get some mosquito dunks from the hardware store and crumble them up and mix in the top layer of media in all your pots; this will kill their larvae and eventually stop the life cycle.

Healthy, green new growth is what’s going to tell you if what you’re doing is working or not. Typically your growth tips are where you will see the plant respond first.

Make sure you are giving her good wet/dry cycles. Stop trying to keep the plant semi-watered all the time. Fungus gnats lay eggs in the top 2” and they thrive in moist media. You will quickly reduce their population this way and give your plant a chance to go through its natural cycles. PH and EC change as the moisture content in the media changes and certain nutrients are used. I think this aids in catching the “full spectrum” of nutrients, etc.

Don’t let her get bone dry, or to the point of causing stress, but the top 2” should be pretty dry before you water again.

A Lot goin' on...

A Lot goin' on...

PurplePotion said:

Looks like fungus gnats but without a better picture, I can’t say for sure. Sounds like you’re on the right track, get some mosquito dunks from the hardware store and crumble them up and mix in the top layer of media in all your pots; this will kill their larvae and eventually stop the life cycle.

Healthy, green new growth is what’s going to tell you if what you’re doing is working or not. Typically your growth tips are where you will see the plant respond first.

Make sure you are giving her good wet/dry cycles. Stop trying to keep the plant semi-watered all the time. Fungus gnats lay eggs in the top 2” and they thrive in moist media. You will quickly reduce their population this way and give your plant a chance to go through its natural cycles. PH and EC change as the moisture content in the media changes and certain nutrients are used. I think this aids in catching the “full-spectrum” of nutrients, etc.

Don’t let her get bone dry, or to the point of causing stress, but the top 2” should be pretty dry before you water again.

Click to expand...

Thanks, PP!
OK, I (maybe) think I got it now. I wrote a cycle of feed, dry, top-off w/only, dry, w/o with 50% drainage aaaaand again!

I realized that even with my best intentions and studying as much as I can I was making a few huge mistakes and now, thanks to ALL OF YOU, things start sorting themselves out.

I got what you mean with the PH, EC & TDS changing so the plant has each & every possibility to nute itself with macro, micro, and even Super (If some kind of Sativa's Superhero"!)

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Questions:

I read about a remedy against F.Gnats that suggests leaving the tobacco of 3 cigarettes steep overnight in 1L (1/4gal) of water. Then water, the plants and larvae/eggs will be dead. Believable considering the hundreds of poisons contained in a feg but...they also say to water "till it drains". Well, I have 4x4 gal pots, how much water+tobacco should I use? Is it perfectly safe for my plants? Another method was mixing 4 parts of water with 1 part of hydrogen peroxide and do the same, rinse through. Again, how much H.Peroxide should I buy to rinse 16gal?!
TOO Much!

My thought...

I studied that F.Gnats drop-off eggs within the first 2" of soil. What if I carefully remove 3" of soil from each pot. Than I nebulize whatever mixture on the soil (in case of a deep egg "got lost"). I mix the collected soil in a tin and I pour the mixture on it (would be around 1-2L (1/4-1/2 gal) total. The soil would not only be "rinsed" but I can leave the mix acting 1hr or so. Last I rinse the soil thoroughly (in case of tobacco) and place it back on the girls.

Am I talking shit?!

Lamps and distance from canopy

I know the suggested distances for the lights above canopy considering the plant's stage but I am wondering...these distances don't take into account the type of light (at least I never seen suggested distances divided by type of source (HPS, MH, LED, COB, ...)). Are these because of the heat? (as these measures probably date back to HPS only or discharge lamps only)
Or is it an average considering more factors? Dunno, like heat and light penetration?!
In few ads about lamps I read "this lamp does not heat, you can place it 2" from the canopy and your plants will absorb any tiny bit of PAR!"
This is what made me think.

Best PH in soil or soil-mixes (with at least 20% soil)

In my "Canna" nutes, the "Terra" (which means "soil", as this line is made for soil and soil mixes) line, they state that is best to keep a PH of 5.8-6.2 whereas I read in @Joe Fresh 1st post here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231387 that, as an example, Calcium get locked-up (can't be absorbed, even if/when present/administered, with a PH within 2-6.4 range.

Well, if I always (and this is what I did WTF!) keep my PH UNDER 6.2 (obv above 2, LOL) my babies will suffer from Ca Deficiency.(As it happened!) How much can we really trust these vendors? Is there a deeper, detailed (and maybe Correct!) reason for Canna advertising this range? 5.8-6.2?

Canna is not new neither small nor cheap if I cannot trust them, who than?!?!

By now I studied @Joe Fresh the whole guide here in the infirmary and I noticed that in the soil a PH 6.5ish is best.
Am I (is @Joe XD ) right? Or?

I finish it here, I'll open new 3d for the bunch of different questions I crave an answer to. I leave this 3d only for what is meant to be here for: Health issues of both Quick-Ones. One plant is doin' really, REALLY bad, the other much, MUCH better ( in recovery I'd say).

Thanks in advance!

Ciao everyone, I wait for your comments!
Da1Gròa

I noticed the pH on your feeding chart as well.. I thought it was kind of odd.. it’s almost identical to my Coco chart (5.5-6.2). Maybe Canna anticipates the wet/dry cycles as typically pH rises as the media dries out. Total and complete guess, though..

Light distances depend on heat, intensity, coverage area, reflector design, etc.. you’re gonna have to find your sweet spot.

As for your fungus gnat ideas, I always remind myself to keep it simple when I start thinking like that xD. Just do your best. Keep a dunk in your reservoir or watering can, too.

PurplePotion said:

I noticed the pH on your feeding chart as well... I thought it was kind of odd... it’s almost identical to my Coco chart (5.5-6.2). Maybe Canna anticipates the wet/dry cycles as typically pH rises as the media dries out. Total and complete guess, though...

Light distances depend on heat, intensity, coverage area, reflector design, etc.. you’re gonna have to find your sweet spot.

As for your fungus gnat ideas, I always remind myself to keep it simple when I start thinking like that xD. Just do your best. Keep a dunk in your reservoir or watering can, too.

Click to expand...

SORRY I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE ITALIC/UNDERLINED SENTENCE OF YOUR QUOTE...'bout the "dunk"...(Sry Caps-Lock)

You know PP,
the point is that I am on the other side of the ocean and nearly every product, more so regarding pesticides, amendments, micro, they all come with different brands/commercial names. It'd be nice if everyone would indicate Brand-Commercial Name-Active ingredient/s. The latter can be looked up anywhere in the world.
Nitric Acid 5% is Nitric Acid 5% everywhere, while Canna PH- Growth, to make an example, can be a real nightmare to unearth!
1k words to say Mosquito bits aren't a possibility, unless I order from the US, pay 30$ delivery and wait good 2-3 weeks.

It's gonna take me some time to learn what products correspond to the ones I have available here in 2 days time and with 5$ delivery if any! But I am patient...XD

Ok, I got you 'bout the lights...yep, more or less I guess it wasn't that easy...I'll work my way through...

I really am fascinated by your theory about the prevision of Canna's engineers about PH's fluctuations....I'd really like to confirm/discard as it means a lot if you think about it.

It does make sense if you think...Macro & micro nutes which are best absorbed from acidic soil are gonna be absorbed first, as I water more on the acidic part, the remaining nutes are gonna have their rota when the soil dries out and while it dries, different nutes will alternate their "glory moment".

I'm gonna write Canna about this! Rest assured!

Last thing: (last for this post, LOL)

In the section infirmary, you can find a 3d of mine re the one plant (Quick-1) which did NOT recover but got worse. It does not look as a def. to me, rather a Disease. No pests neither, unless I have some microscopic shitty bug or root nematodes or root "bugs", to synthesize 'em all.

Anyway I'd really like if you (and any other folk who reads this) would see that 3d, as I need to decide if it makes sense to bring to to ripening or if it's better to eutanize it to gain space and maybe get better yields from the other 3, which will have more space, more light, more attention. And the first 2 aren't so abundant!

My inexperience doesn't allow me to make a proper decision without inputs, considerations, suggestions, other grower's experience.

You find it here if you like: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=8637518#post8637518

: thank you:

PS: One of the girls who are giving me satisfaction and strength, an RQS Bluematic (Blueberry x Ruderalis). I'd have a ton of questions 'bout the 2 going fine, too! But I promised that it was the last subject.

BABY#1


BABY#2

https://www.amazon.com/Summit-respo...Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=asc_df_B0000AH849/

Those are what I’ve been using (mosquito _dunks_). BTI is the active ingredient. Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis to be exact. I believe Gnatrol is a liquid version.

Let us know if you get a response from Canna on the pH deal, curious about that one.

PurplePotion said:

https://www.amazon.com/Summit-respo...Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=asc_df_B0000AH849/

Those are what I’ve been using (mosquito _dunks_). BTI is the active ingredient. Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis to be exact. I believe Gnatrol is a liquid version.

Let us know if you get a response from Canna on the pH deal, curious about that one.

Click to expand...

Thanks! BTI is the acronym for? (maybe too pretentious innit! ) BTW, I'll look for this Active Stuff and see, I'm sure there is a EU's equivalent.

It's a "bacillus" therefore is BIO, true?

Yep man! I surely let ya know the Canna's deal!!!

You got the chance to visit my "Euthanasia" 3d btw?! No rush, just asking...

Catch ya soon, thank-you meanwhile PP!

GL! Bye!

Da1Gròa

PurplePotion said:

https://www.amazon.com/Summit-respo...Mosquito/dp/B0000AH849/ref=asc_df_B0000AH849/

Those are what I’ve been using (mosquito _dunks_). BTI is the active ingredient. Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis to be exact. I believe Gnatrol is a liquid version.

Let us know if you get a response from Canna on the pH deal, curious about that one.

Click to expand...

In the end, I found a product with BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) which solved the issues in a matter of days. No F. Gnats no more! LOL

I wrote Canna and question them about the Ph range they suggest with soil, the reason why, etc. Will update as soon as I get an answer on this subject.

We'll see how long will it take 'em...

Ciao!