Foxtailing and wheat pheno is different though
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Revival of the REVIVAL of the ULTIMATE SATIVA THREAD a.k.a R.U.S.T II
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funkyhorse
Well-known member
The Meao Thai used in Destroyer is the same as the one used in Purple Haze x Meao Thai
This supposed thai weed it is a short bush plant finnishing 45 days before the fastest of thai landraces
At this point in the 21st century when everything is polyhybridized in the canna world being bred for the famous keeper in a pack it is clear that all names are fantasy names and it is designed for indoor growing
Cannabiogen was an indoor seedbank
This is in this forum where Cannabiogen was searching for testers and this is their answer when they refused
@Eltitoguay as tester because he grows outdoors
It is highly contradictory to call strains with outdoor landrace names when the weed is only good for indoors...if you really think you are growing real colombian weed or real thai weed from destroyer you are believing in illusion
Thai weed is not good indoors.
The results I got outdoors from CBG weed were not good, at this part of the world they were a huge commercial failure
All this foxtail thing leads to inbreeding depression.
I didnt find not even one foxtail plant that was superior in high as their non foxtails sisters
I grow fenotrigo strains. It is not the same thing as far out pointed out. Fenotrigo strains are productive
Growing outdoors this beautiful foxtails are undesirable for me
This supposed thai weed it is a short bush plant finnishing 45 days before the fastest of thai landraces
At this point in the 21st century when everything is polyhybridized in the canna world being bred for the famous keeper in a pack it is clear that all names are fantasy names and it is designed for indoor growing
Cannabiogen was an indoor seedbank
This means in their tests they searched for indoor growers in order to get reliable results and as fast as possible
This is in this forum where Cannabiogen was searching for testers and this is their answer when they refused
@Eltitoguay as tester because he grows outdoors
It is highly contradictory to call strains with outdoor landrace names when the weed is only good for indoors...if you really think you are growing real colombian weed or real thai weed from destroyer you are believing in illusion
Thai weed is not good indoors.
The results I got outdoors from CBG weed were not good, at this part of the world they were a huge commercial failure
All this foxtail thing leads to inbreeding depression.
I didnt find not even one foxtail plant that was superior in high as their non foxtails sisters
I grow fenotrigo strains. It is not the same thing as far out pointed out. Fenotrigo strains are productive
Growing outdoors this beautiful foxtails are undesirable for me
There's no Oaxacan genetics on Destroyer hybrid.
I thought that Estai used the Verde Limon strain that i sent him 25 years ago.
But Siete (the true breeder behind Cannabiogen) used a unknow mexican strain that he used to call "Zisaña" .
I think it would be interesting to do a side by side lab analysis of the "wheat" phenos in comparison to non in the same familia.
Lets not forget that this phenomenon is a phentotype and not an isolated or established variety or cultivar although some folks that have never grown Cannabis in large numbers will lead you to believe it is. They'll treat this undesirable aspect as if it were some discovered exotic which although rare is not.
If you enjoy these particular pigeon-toed phenotypes imagine how much more you would seeing the fully formed natural flower.
My guess is that this structure is in response to wild plants growing in isolation, a lack of males or possibly a memory of extreme weather conditions but i'm only guessing.
I definetely don't consider it an improvement of any kind and like many other things in natural life if it gets popular it can get out of hand genetically especially with the inexperienced.
For the record i'm smoking some myself jaja but its the result of a cross and not a naturally occuring pheno in an established cultivar.
And it does cut through most of the hybrids I have.
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Ive been asking about you!
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BC LONE WOLF
Well-known member
Beautiful flowers, very unique and probably very uplifting effect.
I have the tendency to not put old labels on things, specially flowers.
I believe that “wheat like” flowers structures, foxtails and the most extreme phenotype the “Pearled flower” are part of an expression that is so rare that is almost extinct.
Before we capitalized on flowers, our ancestors just grew plants for personal use, I think those traits that we see with low yield and sparse flowers are part of a dying genotype. And dying I say because it has been bread out of the gene pool.
That’s how feral cannabis looked like before we discovered extreme swelling female flowers and over fertilized plants (done to make money right? More weight on the flower more money?)
Part of the decision for the cannabis community was to breed for bigger, faster, stinky, narcotic powerful flowers… that was a compromise.
I didn’t take that decision and now I am like some others, finding that cannabis now days has lost diversity and a lot of flowers if not not all mainstream flowers look the same.
I do agree flowers like this are not commercial, and do deserve their own spot/category in the shelf. I don’t think they are a result of inbreeding or poor choice rather they are popping up more often now because some breeders and growers are going back to the source (pure or untouched lines) to bring some variety back to the flower market.
I’ve smoked these pearled sparse flowers before and they have juice in them, a few gram smokes will get you incredibly high and it’s the high that is different.
Just my humble opinion.
I have the tendency to not put old labels on things, specially flowers.
I believe that “wheat like” flowers structures, foxtails and the most extreme phenotype the “Pearled flower” are part of an expression that is so rare that is almost extinct.
Before we capitalized on flowers, our ancestors just grew plants for personal use, I think those traits that we see with low yield and sparse flowers are part of a dying genotype. And dying I say because it has been bread out of the gene pool.
That’s how feral cannabis looked like before we discovered extreme swelling female flowers and over fertilized plants (done to make money right? More weight on the flower more money?)
Part of the decision for the cannabis community was to breed for bigger, faster, stinky, narcotic powerful flowers… that was a compromise.
I didn’t take that decision and now I am like some others, finding that cannabis now days has lost diversity and a lot of flowers if not not all mainstream flowers look the same.
I do agree flowers like this are not commercial, and do deserve their own spot/category in the shelf. I don’t think they are a result of inbreeding or poor choice rather they are popping up more often now because some breeders and growers are going back to the source (pure or untouched lines) to bring some variety back to the flower market.
I’ve smoked these pearled sparse flowers before and they have juice in them, a few gram smokes will get you incredibly high and it’s the high that is different.
Just my humble opinion.
SolarLogos
Well-known member
I had a pearl pheno outdoors this past season. Lineage was OHaze, Oaxaca, and Copper Canyon (Mexican). She got up to 12 feet tall and showed a lot of vigor in growth. She was the only one out of 13 of this cultivar to express any structure of this nature.
I crossed her with my Vientamese Black x NevHaze F3. I'll grow some of these out and see if this trait is hereditary/passed on and what percentage of offspring (if any) expresses the pearl trait.
She is the most potent of 13. I really don't mind this pheno, I have a large bag stuffed with these pearls on a string that will last for quite some time. No trimming needed, easy to roll.
Edit. Forgot a pic
I crossed her with my Vientamese Black x NevHaze F3. I'll grow some of these out and see if this trait is hereditary/passed on and what percentage of offspring (if any) expresses the pearl trait.
She is the most potent of 13. I really don't mind this pheno, I have a large bag stuffed with these pearls on a string that will last for quite some time. No trimming needed, easy to roll.
Edit. Forgot a pic
DESTROYER FROM 15 YEARS AGO.
I think you've nailed it with the first sentence, the rest is unnecessary speculation at this point. This is the root cause in general of the extreme foxtails (lets call it wheat phenotypes) and foxtails/fenotrigo structure.
Even though the Destroyer is now inbred line, the wild genes still comes through sometimes (the compact pheno flowered for 16 weeks after all) and I believe they are totally related to indoor growing, speaking from experience. Just put the same plant outdoors and you will not see such extreme foxtailing, in some cases the buds will be surprisingly compact. These plants are just not comfortable with small pots, artificial lights and bottled nutrients. Therefore before judging this expression as undesirable, inbreeding depression ect., we should first question if the plant was grown to its full potential.
My point is, I dont mind this bud structure, since I know it is compromised by indoor environment. Its the wilder genetics in action and compromise I am willing to accept, to get its unique effect.
Example, here is the same clone of Haze hybrid Indoor vs Lightdep outdoors:
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I've been searching for a plant like this! I'd love to see follow ups on the seed line.
Forgot to ask you before, what is this stunning beauty?
EnjoyingLife
Well-known member
What makes it undesirable to you?
I assume low yield but is there more?
BC LONE WOLF
Well-known member
That some of my personal work from recent years. The pics there are my current 3 different phenos that showed up this first run (under lights in a tent) on these F1s Jamaican skunk x Filipino. Did a run last year outdoors too.
Nice phenos, lots of variations so far, landrace and heirlooms mixed in there. Lots of work left
BC LONE WOLF
Well-known member
I would like to share my experience with wheat 
phenotype I had this male 2 years ago did a open pollination outdoors.
At the time of this project I used my Jamaican skunk line (with high percent of Mexican heritage) and cross the F1s with this male.
The progeny is what you see, a well pronounced wheatgrass phenotype in 2 out of 3 (yes small population, that’s all I can afford to run).
I seen that wheat phenotype last year outdoors as well with a Dutch Durban and that same Filipino male;
Jamaican skunk leaning pheno NarrowLeaf (wheatgrass male)
Dutch Durban leaning pheno Broad Leaf
I didn’t use Broad Leaf phenos particularly for this line so I killed that male not before I collected pollen stored it for other lines. That male flower is pronounced, elongated, sparse… I know that wheatgrass flower is still in there despite the Broad Leaf pheno (something particular about Mexican heritage lines) Broad Leaf foxtails.
To me is got to be more than just bad breeding, a trait that strong can’t be a mistake, it’s more likely to be a Narrow Leaf expression perhaps descendant from the Asian origins. I’m leaning on SEA to be where this genotype comes from.
That’s just my experience, I have not seen all the phenos, but in my small universe I tried outdoors and indoors and still have wheatgrass flower, the pearled flower is a rare one only seen it once.
I have used several different genotypes, I ruled out inbreeding several runs ago.
phenotype I had this male 2 years ago did a open pollination outdoors.At the time of this project I used my Jamaican skunk line (with high percent of Mexican heritage) and cross the F1s with this male.
The progeny is what you see, a well pronounced wheatgrass phenotype in 2 out of 3 (yes small population, that’s all I can afford to run).
I seen that wheat phenotype last year outdoors as well with a Dutch Durban and that same Filipino male;
Jamaican skunk leaning pheno NarrowLeaf (wheatgrass male)
Dutch Durban leaning pheno Broad Leaf
I didn’t use Broad Leaf phenos particularly for this line so I killed that male not before I collected pollen stored it for other lines. That male flower is pronounced, elongated, sparse… I know that wheatgrass flower is still in there despite the Broad Leaf pheno (something particular about Mexican heritage lines) Broad Leaf foxtails.
To me is got to be more than just bad breeding, a trait that strong can’t be a mistake, it’s more likely to be a Narrow Leaf expression perhaps descendant from the Asian origins. I’m leaning on SEA to be where this genotype comes from.
That’s just my experience, I have not seen all the phenos, but in my small universe I tried outdoors and indoors and still have wheatgrass flower, the pearled flower is a rare one only seen it once.
I have used several different genotypes, I ruled out inbreeding several runs ago.
Mainly the reason for myself is they get massive , the Africans, i don’t want to be putting so much effort time and space ,and not be rewarded… in that I can find stronger smokes in the siblings that deliver. It’s cute and different but that’s it , for me anyway
EnjoyingLife
Well-known member
Thanks for a quick response!
Makes perfect sense.
I wonder if it'd be worth keeping a clone or three of something special with low yield for personal head stash.
No worries, not so much the yield thing, if it’s “special” it gets kept regardless
But I’m say the the other plants of the genotype aren’t throwing this expression but are more potent mostly in that you have to smoke the same amount
It’s not like you smoke that one bract “pearl” and you high … not myself I’m a manybong wake and baker
More bracts more high ?
But I’m say the the other plants of the genotype aren’t throwing this expression but are more potent mostly in that you have to smoke the same amount
It’s not like you smoke that one bract “pearl” and you high … not myself I’m a manybong wake and baker
More bracts more high ?
BC LONE WOLF
Well-known member
No worries, not so much the yield thing, if it’s “special” it gets kept regardless
But I’m say the the other plants of the genotype aren’t throwing this expression but are more potent mostly in that you have to smoke the same amount
It’s not like you smoke that one bract “pearl” and you high … not myself I’m a manybong wake and baker
More bracts more high ?
I have the same idea as you If i need more and more then its not really worth it, specially if I have to wait 4 months of flowering to have 2 oz of one plant.
Here is the catch for me, If i have 2 oz of any other yielding genotype making big buds, I will finish that stash first because the desired effect is not obtained smoking one joint, so I find myself smoking 3 4 5 joints a day... my 2 oz are gone in 10 days.
The sparse foxtail flowers have a considerable stronger effect for me and it last longer. There is the come up, the high and the come down, like being high on psychedelics. I am smoking 1 joint a day same 2 oz are gonna last me 4 weeks... Because the high has a cerebral effect with out the narcotic come down, I feel high and euphoric longer so I don't feel the need to smoke again.
That tells me I have almost no Indica effect in my stash, and thats my main goal since the mainstream market (Licensed Producers in Canada) all they sell is narcotic Indicas because they crop at 50-60 days... with the worst labelling ever... a Sativa here is basically a Indica with a twist of some sort of "sativa dominant" hybrid.
To do justice to this flower or phenotype, one must not compare it with the mainstream chemotypes. It's a whole different beast. They do amazing gene pools for breeding.
I have been wanting to do a lab test on my flowers to really have a scientific measurement of what I am consuming, but in all honesty I cant force myself to pay like 100 Cad$ for a lab to tell me some numbers, also I have to send them like 3.5 grms of flower lol. No way, I am too cheap.
It's pretty refreshing to see that the vibe has changed regarding these flowers, 10 years ago people would laugh at and say thats garbage (in Canada at least). Today at least people acknowledge their presence and some are keen to grow them instead of sending them to the dump. I have been hesitant for years to put my stuff out there for fear of backlash, so I keep them to myself. No one around my circle wants to grow these phenos, they don't understand them and Canadian season is restrictive in what will actually grow and mature, so these plants need specific parameters. No LP will pick up wheatgrass/pearl phenos, or freakshow phenos, or duck foot... heck I never even seen a Sour Diesel or any diesel sold by a LP... to many variables, they stick to Og kush derivates and Amnesia haze.
Smoking and growing these phenos is a counter culture statement.
note; sorry for my long text, high as a kite. lol
BC LONE WOLF
Well-known member
150 days later, will have to cut for reveg in the next weeks.
MangoBiche X 60sLB
MangoBiche X 60sLB
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Beautiful job man. May I ask what 60sLB refers to? Is that a pure sativa like the mangobiche?
