Best seed company for buying seeds?

bigbadbiddy said:

What would you call Nirvana, WhiteLabel etc. then if not B-listers? Sorry if the term offended you.
Discount breeders? Sounded more harsh to me.

Nobody said you can't get good stuff from them. But that doesn't change the fact that they make F2s from other people and sell them at a discount that reflects them not doing any actual breeding work. Which is fine, I didn't tell anybody to avoid them or anything. I would prefer them over many higher priced alternatives.

Gonna see how the Karma gear holds up next.

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no offence... just pointing out that 'cheap' doesnt always mean shitty... as expensive doesnt always mean great...

and wejust bought some josh d fem's, and been veggin '1' seed (no room for more) for 6 weeks, just went 12/12 3 days ago- keen to see how it is- heard a lot of good reports... hope its ass-kickin
peace

I don't think I ever said cheap is bad or expensive is good. Quite the contrary.

I just wanted to illustrate a line between "actual" breeders and those selling F2s of other's work etc. .
Mind you I don't condemn anyone, hell my first grow was with Nirvana seeds and it was far from the worst I had genetically. Matter of fact, I was one of the "lucky" people who bought the Nirvana AK47 in the time when it was by all accounts "better" than the "original" AK47 from Serious Seeds.

But that doesn't change the fact that Nirvana did buy a pack or two from Serious and made F2s and sold those "for cheap" without doing further work on the line.

I think it is important to be aware of this and that this is where the low price comes from. Hence why I called them "B-Listers" along with others who operate similarly.

I would choose such "B-Listers" over many "A-Listers", not only because of price alone.
Take Bubblegum for example. I did a whole lot of research on that strain because I wanted it, bad.

I never pulled the trigger on any beans in the end but ultimately, if I would have, I would have gone with the Nirvana Bubblicious.
My reasoning was that my research told me that neither the Serious, nor the TH seeds version nor any of the other "A-List" versions were widely reported as "it". There were highly controversial reports on all these "A-List" offerings of Bubblegum seeds. For the price these "A-Listers" were asking for those beans, I would expect much more uniformity and much more positive feedback and review.

The Nirvana Bubblicious came with similarly controversial results, ranging from "yeah dude, 100% pink bubblegum kappa!!" to "not even a hint of bubblegum in the entire pack".
Pretty much exactly the same as with the "A-listers".

BUT unlike the "A-listers", Nirvana charged a fraction for their beans.

And as it always is, particularly with cannabis, there is always the genetic lottery you are playing when popping beans.

Now when an "A-Lister" tells me he charges 5 or 10 times as much for his Bubblegum than a "B-Lister", then I expect the odds in the genetic lottery to be massively tilted in my favor. Massively to the tune of "5-10 times as likely to find that pink bubblegum pheno".
If the reviews and reports tell me that this is not the case and the odds are pretty much equal to those of the "B-Listers" offerings, then I struggle to see why I would pay 5-10 times as much...

So in the case of Bubblegum, I would have much rather bought and popped 3-5 packs of Nirvana Bubblicious than buying a single pack of Serious Bubblegum. And I would be convinced that I have a much higher chance of finding a pink bubblegum pheno in the 30-50 Nirvana seeds than I would have in 10-12 Serious seeds.

There was actually a favored third option for me, which was BOG Bubblegum. Now I would not categorize BOG as an "A-Lister" because he doesn't handle his business like Sensi etc. (which I would argue is a good thing) but his work is respected even more than certain "A-Listers" currently on the market. Even though his genetics come from White Label Doublegum (which I would label a B-lister). But more importantly, to me, his price reflects that and is "adequate" for what he offers, imho.
Alas BOG doesnt ship to Europe so I am still hoping to get some of his beans one day through trading or when I visit the US.



Anyway, long ass story short:
Basically, when choosing one breeder over another, you tilt your odds of winning the genetic lottery in one direction or the other.
Sometimes you will pay a lot for very low chances and sometimes you will pay very little for very high chances.

Now I am sure everyone would favor paying very little for very high chances and to do so, my personal opinion and experience tells me that Mr. Nice is a good option, as is Nirvana, White Label, etc.

Simply because you can get many beans for a very low price and they are NOT horrible quality or anything. You just have to pop more beans and select from a larger populace. Which is not possible for everyone, which is also why femmed seeds and 10 bucks a seed strains are so healthy on the market. I understand.


But if you have the ability to search through more beans, it is often, I would say pretty much always, advisable to tilt the odds in your favor by buying more beans and selecting from a larger populace, even if you go through what I called "B-Listers" here.
I would say you have a higher chance of finding a good pheno from 50 cheap seeds from Mr. Nice or Nirvana than finding a good pheno out of 10 seeds from an "A-Lister" at the same price.

I just made the opposite decision, buying a pack of Serious Bubblegum. But then, I've grown Bubblicious, which I found to be vine-like with wispy buds. Yield was low, although one plant did seem to have sort of a bubblegum flavor. May have just been my imagination or wistful thinking. Anyway, Bubblicious did not impress me.

I don't put much emphasis on cost of the seeds anymore. Compared to the time and effort, along with the cost of electricity, lightbulbs, fertilizer, etc., the price of seeds is a minor item.

I do think it's absurd for some seeds to cost fifteen bucks and up per seed, but even at that price, seeds are a fraction of the cost of growing weed.

If you want good fruit, start with good seeds.

Research what you like and get the best possible genetics you can afford.

Besides what Lester said, Research what you like and get the best possible genetics you can afford., opinion, and trying a few for comparison. Have tried many, many strains (dating back to M. Emery's catalog) and a few stand out. A few I wished I'd have made seeds from, but mostly, it's what I enjoy. Anything Haze, J. Herer is a keeper for me. Also love fruity. Hard to choose.

karma genetics for me

zachrockbadenof said:

no offence... just pointing out that 'cheap' doesnt always mean shitty... as expensive doesnt always mean great...

and wejust bought some josh d fem's, and been veggin '1' seed (no room for more) for 6 weeks, just went 12/12 3 days ago- keen to see how it is- heard a lot of good reports... hope its ass-kickin
peace

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the JD OG "appears" to be good breeding (it looks good, smells ok, performs well)

aridbud said:

Besides what Lester said, Research what you like and get the best possible genetics you can afford., opinion, and trying a few for comparison. Have tried many, many strains (dating back to M. Emery's catalog) and a few stand out. A few I wished I'd have made seeds from, but mostly, it's what I enjoy. Anything Haze, J. Herer is a keeper for me. Also love fruity. Hard to choose.

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best possible genetics if u speak of price is ...BULLSHIT... as the best seed we ever grew came from a pack of nirvana jock horror- back when we bought it, it was prob 15/20bucks for the pack... we didnt keep a cutting of the jock we found, and searched numerous packs but always came up empty.. also bought a pack of the original jack herer and didnt find anything approaching that orig pheno..

i have hopes for our josh og... we'll see in a couple of months... our experience with 99.999999 of breeders ... they are just pollen chuckers....

a word of advice: if you buy from a reputable seed bank, a lot of the seeds match the description on their product information page. to be honest, after I scored a freebie of dinafem blue kush from herbies, and ended up with product that looked exactly like the pictures I go exclusively by descriptions by the breeder

don't be afraid to experiment!

IM NOT THE BIGGEST FAN OF SEEDBANKS

IM NOT THE BIGGEST FAN OF SEEDBANKS

I'm not the biggest fan of seed banks or should I be more specific and say seed vendors and I personally believe anytime you can buy seeds strait from the breeder this should always be your first choice for example when I placed my first order with ACE SEEDS not only did the give me free seeds with my order I also received extra seeds of the strains I paid for and I also had 100% seed germ rates and excellent communication from them....you can not ask for a better experience than that

Buying Seeds is gambling. Sure ya know some things about parents, or grow reports. But phenotypes tend to vary and it's the luck of what seeds are in the pack. Grow reports might have had better or worse luck than you (or grower choices).

Get the seed dice rolling in the direction you feel favors sucess. Your not going to buy 100 day flowering narrow leaf beans for a guerilla grow outdoors up North. Sure some beans have a rep but ya gotta watch for different parents switched and all that inside info.

I had shit for luck with Nirvana. Lot's of people had good luck. Different grows have different needs. As always there is usually some searching for the real fire.