ACE's Panama vs Dr Greenthumb's Panama Red?

The more people has access to landraces, the more people will be able to preserve them and the bigger are the chances landraces will be indeed preserved.

Gypsy Nirvana said:

Oh, goody,.. looks like I'm one of the actors in this soap-opera screen-play, and I have been accused of threatening this Mustafunk with what exactly?....'a cruel death by seeds?'..lol

Its nice to know the message behind the fiction. Looks to me though that we may have one actor with a sock-puppet here masquerading as another, so that does add to the intrigue......indeed.

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The best way to find landraces is by seeking them out for yourself. That does mean traveling to far-off/remote areas of the globe with no sanitation or much if any infrastructure, then getting to know some friendly local farmers who might want to trade with you.....lol

It can be a lot of fun too.

JohnnyChicago said:

The more people has access to landraces, the more people will be able to preserve them and the bigger are the chances landraces will be indeed preserved.

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Wise words...i hope to see also more seedbanks to sell REAL landrace...can you imagine a world without honduras,ethiopian highland,mangobiche,punto rojo,thai stick,and others??

dubi said:

I highly doubt you have grown or at least grown properly the old Malawi Killer to be able to appreciate her. The Old Malawi Killer was only shared in a small close circle.

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OK so I read this often. A jealously guarded secret sauce strain that is kept amongst the self chosen few.

How many of these legendary strains that were hoarded are alive now?

How well have these close circle circles done their job of keeping these strains alive?

If people really want to know why anyone these days has to accept shit (or shitter) weed than decades past then it is because of circles of hoarders like you describe.

It doesn't impress anyone with an objective view of what is in the best interests of cannabis and its appreciators.

The jailor vs the free.

Gypsy Nirvana said:

The best way to find landraces is by seeking them out for yourself. That does mean traveling to far-off/remote areas of the globe with no sanitation or much if any infrastructure, then getting to know some friendly local farmers who might want to trade with you.....lol

It can be a lot of fun too.

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Are there any places you like to visit?
I think Papua New guinea would be a nice place to start, but there must be so many others (like so many places in sub Sahara Africa).

Kind regards

Having grown Ace's Panama, it went over 12-13 weeks and was very excellent.
The people looking to achieve the effects of something they smoked 35-40 years ago are simply a bit delusional. Memories from that long ago can be deceiving, certain strains seemed so great because the average smoke typically going around was crap, low potency Mexican. Ace's Panama Haze sure sounds great. The OP should get some.

As far as "Dr Greenthumb" - anybody that sends money to that crook deserves to get ripped off. Hard to believe anybody would be stupid enough to send him any $. If you live in Canada, he might actually send you some seeds of who knows what ? If you live in the USA, you will likely never receive anything. Bad stories about the crook since way back in the OG days.. "Dr Greenthumb" must be the laziest seed seller in history, that pathetic website has not changed in about 15-20 years. "
The Doctor's Own
NIAGARA
plant WOWED'EM
in the Coffee Shops in Holland
and was JUDGED amongst the
BEST ANYWHERE! "


is a total joke and an outright lie from 20 years ago.... Early OG warnings about what a rip-off the Doc was and how Niagara was garbage schwag.

And how he now says how Endless Sky is our "best selling strain" = based on legit great grow reports from decades ago, the Doc fails to mention the fact that he lost the parents of Endless Sky many years ago and how it is not even close to being the same strain. Doc probably bought some Ace Seeds Reg Panama and made his own from those seeds....

Many, many far far better breeders than Doc out there, don't be a fool and waste your $ with him.
As far as the self righteous drama queens spewing about landraces, etc. - lots of outright ugly jealously = get over yourselves, you just are another dude growing a few plants, no more special than the rest of us. You want "pure landraces" ? Then get off your ass and go get them yourself. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

dubi said:

I highly doubt you have grown or at least grown properly the old Malawi Killer to be able to appreciate her.

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This actually cracked me up LOL. At least I grow and produce my own seed.

Congrats for your disertations as well, you make the most of every single post to spit a ton of marketing bs but I also see too much hate and ignorance in your words, almost sounding like if you were desperate for finding valid arguments in order to discredit anyone confronting you and disgress in front of so many potential customers. You try so hard with the bullshit that it’s ridiculous. Remember that once that insults and disrespect become your main argument you are actually discrediting yourself.

Why not having a civil discussion on Cannabis genetics and breeding? Providing pictures and information instead of cheap insults so everyone could make their own conclusions?

Gypsy was clear when he put me back after the ban you’ve requested, since you have privileges as a sponsored vendor, I was adviced to avoid confrontations and personal issues here if I didn’t want to leave the boat permanently. So I'm not gonna play your childish insult game and see who has the bigger dick, it’s easy to make false claims in order to create a distorted image of reality. But such fair debate won’t ever happen here so there’s no point on wasting more time. You’ve proven you can’t even hold a conversation without disqualifications. So don’t try to give lessons of humility when you don’t have it yourself and never did.

Funny, they must be such poorly grown toy plants indeed. Don't you know size doesn't really matters if you know to play with them properly? LOL. Anyway the fact you appropiated some of them like for example the Mauritius from Lasko that you've received from me makes me acually believe they must be still good and useful anyway, isn't it? You’ve asked for seeds in order to help us with those reproductions and I’ve accepted… I’ve sent the Mauritius and some others, including Zamal F7 and up to 3 different generations from it from all the reproductions that ShadaX and some others have been doing (yeah that means 10+ years growing and working with the Zamal line) since they started preserving and breeding that GN Collection line that Gypsy released when no one was giving a shit about rare sativas or even caring on preserving them. Brand new Purple Zamal mom? LOL… there has been purple Zamal plants among those lines you’ve received for years, ShadaX selected many of them and nobody knows that line better than him after all the hears he spent with it. And that’s just one of many. But who cares? You will always deny everything and most people may believe it because they weren’t there, nor they had the chance to speak to the people involved like I did.

Sri Lanka? What the hell are you talking about? Firstly it was Ras Pablo the one who traded the Sri Lanka with some people there, not ACE. Likewise, Ras Pablo obtained all those seeds from Green Hornet from what he said. He traded them with a good friend of mine, so what? Don’t try to make it look like if you were the one who brought the Sri Lanka seeds from one of your trips and shared your line along. I know from first hand where most of your lines came from so don’t waste more time with that.

Same with the Philippines Sagada and Kalinga... Chongkee, the pinoy guy from Overgrow also sent seeds to Huangdi, so you weren't the original source, whether you received seeds or not, all you do is make up bullshit the newbies may swallow but not people like us who know what's up and all your lies:

Huangdi said:

This strain of Phillipines comes from a former member of Overgrow, named Chongkee, a phillipin. We both received seeds from the Kalinga and the Sagada. Dubi did the Kalinga and I made the Sagada. Unfortunately, the Sagada did not give pure males and therefore the seeds obtained are very strongly harrisas. I think we will drop the strain, especially since it had no great interest compared to a strain of South Asia is traditional, despite the fact that it was reputed to be the most traditional of the country.

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You remember Huangdi and Peter from Vibes Co, no?

The funny thing on he Sri Lanka is that I know Green Hornet’s breeder and we’ve been exchanging messages for some time in the past, so I got the info from the horse’s mouth, he told me the stories on how he sourced all of this lines, from the Thais and Malawi to the Erdbeer. He gave great advice and even said I was giving him the motivation to come back to the breeding scene, he even joked about launching a small company together but at the end he moved on and gifted me out all his old lines, Sri Lanka and all others included, along with his blessing to carry on with his legacy. A great guy, an american expat who moved to Switzerland by the way.

Not only you never sent seeds back to us from the lines I’ve sent, nor you didn’t keep your word but you’ve ended cashing on all those without even mentioning anything or asking if it was ok. For you it’s just lines to cash on, you don’t care where they came from or have any respect whatsoever. You only go for the easiest way. Obvioulsy this was a while before Charlie, Estai and others warned me about your true colors and lots of private stuff that I will keep for myself out of respect for them, otherwise I would never have shared anything with someone like you, whose only interest is using people to his advantage and own benefit. But karma watches everything and eventually puts everyone where they belong, so it’s ok.

You suggested that I caused the beef between others or between Charlie and you, but the truth is that it was Charlie and him only the one who first told me about his dissapointment and how he was heartbroken by your betrayal and behaviour during the time we’ve been collaborating and meeting often. Same he did with many other people that was told the same by him, it wasn’t me alone man. So stop the bs and victimism please, you are the only responsable for your own acts and the shortcuts you’ve chosen. If you are ok with him now, that’s fantastic, good for both you guys. It says a lot about how hypocritical the industry is. So I’m done with the dramas… I will only fight my very own fights and walk my very own way.

Same did Estai, the former member from CBG, he told me about his work with the Bangi Haze (as well as its true lineage and source), and OT Haze in the past and many other interesting stories about misery and why he dissapeared from the scene. I was visting him often man, we were smoking together at his place, so what in the hell are you talking about man? Stop pretending because you are the only one who’s living a true virtual life on ICmag but you are sitting in a big throne of manure that you’ve been building meticulously for years. Most people realize you don't even know your plants and only give generic responses.

So what’s actually patethic here? The fact that I try to draw attention to misinformations or unfair things that few people seem to realize about, or the fact you are a lier who’s just cashing on other people’s hard work and making up bs to market your products? Or how you are trying to disgress and turn anything into a childish disertation bloated with unjustified insults and false claims. Putting in doubt stuff you don’t have a damn clue about. Critizising those who are trying to walk their own path from the scratch when you don’t even produce your own seeds? Funny though.

Why hating? Perhaps because I took my sides and it wasn’t yours? Respect those who have paved your way before you and contributed to your own goals. Nothing wrong about selling seeds and putting nice genetics out so people can enjoy them, but if you want to sell seeds, do your own breeding works or at least get people’s blessing to use and sell their work, so you earn people’s respect and stop being a sneak. It’s that simple, otherwise source your own lines instead of using those provided by other breeders who have invested a great amount of time and hard work in them for their own projects or whatever they want. Jahgreenlabel, Roms and so many others have been doing their own projects and even selling seeds, there was nothing wrong about it. The Vibes was always about sharing and caring the same approach, all the members were sharing genetics and doing their own thing and projects (some leaded to seed companies like USC), all for the love of the plant and seeking the best rare genetics that were often neglected by growers, a bit like DHK Crew but with landraces. But when greedy people started sneaking around and using others it was the end. Be it Luiz from BSC or anyone else. So there is a huge difference actually. Even 20'Thai was so dissapointed after he tried to get some of his seeds back from you and you asked him for money in return, when he had shared loads of seeds with you in the past! That's so miserable.

Unfortunately Tropical Seeds and USC also went that way from the time their old and brilliant leaders left the boat, but the same happened with ACE when Charlie left and you took over it. Many people love ACE genetics but they often forget that 85% of their catalogue is based off CBG’s legacy as well as others. Not that he’s a saint either, it’s a mistake to put anyone into a pedestal since we are all humans, but at least he’s a man of word and has his own approach and vision.

You couldn’t be so wrong about the Vibes Collective, it was never defunct since SillyCone created a brand new forum soon after it dissapeared. But actually no one wanted to have you sneaking around in there after so many bad experiences with you, such was your reputation indeed. Ever since then, most members still gather online in many different places. I still speak often with many like Rahan, Kanza, Huesos, Green Grocer, Kushyman, CTG, 20Thai and others. We are still in touch, sharing experiences and genetics too of course. But because most were disconnected and lacked the motivation, it’s true that I’ve been leading the initiative to keep the Vibes Co legacy and the old spirit alive, as well as trying to put some members together again by bringing them to other forums and keep collaborating or doing projects together. And of course also drawing attention to those who have been cashing on it without consent, taking advantage on people’s hard work without even crediting, because I was feeling all the work and the impact it had was being neglected. People like Rahan and other members always gave me mad love and support for that so that’s the only thing that really matters to me, so if I wasn't a member how comes JGL says this?:

jahgreenlabel said:

Mustafunk is the only guardian of the vibes collective that remains, listen to him about this strain and kept the good vibe that this strain deserves

thank you to everyone who continues the work and keep all its strains alive

and above all a big thank you to Musta which is always trying to keep and protect the memory and work of the vibes collective

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They are the ones who inspire me to keep doing what I’m doing, to keep sharing information, even if it’s just gathering and spreading the true history behind many cultivars and companies within our industry so we could track and write it down someday.

Anyway talking is cheap but the truth is that actions and especially plants speak for themselves, so who cares really? No need to make such a fuss, drama queen. I can understand some may rely on their reputation in order to keep making money, while I don’t give a shit about it. I bet you miss that… back then, when you used to be different, fighting against the greedy seed industry like when Breeder's Choice, Good House Seeds and so on were cashing on CBG/ACE's works, that was way way back, before turning into what you’ve used to critizise. That's why it's often nice to go back in time and see where you came from.

But hey, the more you speak and try to discredit me, the more the more attention you are drawing to this. Sooner or later intelligent people will start wondering what's going on behind the lines and they may start researching by themselves and finding their own truths like I did too. Then I would know it was worth it to spark something inside them... but I'm done with you and your dramas.

desperate for attention and to be recognized as someone importnat

Siever said:

Are there any places you like to visit?
I think Papua New guinea would be a nice place to start, but there must be so many others (like so many places in sub Sahara Africa).

Kind regards

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Sure, I would like to go back to the far north of Madagascar around Diego Saurez and see what I could find.

Or back to Northern Laos or Cambodia for another adventure. There is more than any one of us could ever see out there. PNG might be a good place to start, although I have never been there, it sure sounds interesting.....but at this time I am kinda grounded in the UK, so its just wishful thinking right now.

I would like to find the old lines in the Caribbean, not Jamaica, rather the smaller islands, saint vincent, Antigua, virgin island ...
all my respect for those who face these adventures ...

Gypsy Nirvana said:

I am kinda grounded in the UK, so its just wishful thinking right now.

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That's cuz you were a naughty boy

Bangi Haze aka Bangui White.
Banghi x Greenhouse White Widow aka Congo #3 x White Widow aka White Congo

Banghi = NL x Congo x Mexi x Affy

So Bangi Haze = NL x Congo x Mexi x Affy x White Widow.

1-I dont see Nepalese anywhere in there.
2- How can it be called Congo when its more NL and WW than Congo?

I had to scrap all my Bangi Haze projects because the NL was too damned dominant in crosses.

Estai bred this cross, Dubi took it over and rebranded it.

willydread said:

I would like to find the old lines in the Caribbean, not Jamaica, rather the smaller islands, saint vincent, Antigua, virgin island ...
all my respect for those who face these adventures ...

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there is a strain hunters video about st Vincent. I think Suriname would be great too. It's not known to be a weed epicentrum, but neither places like Congo or La Reunion aren't known to be an epicetrum. So Suriname might be an interesting place.

Gypsy Nirvana said:

Sure, I would like to go back to the far north of Madagascar around Diego Saurez and see what I could find.

Or back to Northern Laos or Cambodia for another adventure. There is more than any one of us could ever see out there. PNG might be a good place to start, although I have never been there, it sure sounds interesting.....but at this time I am kinda grounded in the UK, so its just wishful thinking right now.

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If I ever go to one of the places you mentionned and I find good seeds I might send some to you. PNG Gold and PNG red are said to be very good strains that's why I'd go to PNG first.

Siever said:

there is a strain hunters video about st Vincent. I think Suriname would be great too. It's not known to be a weed epicentrum, but neither places like Congo or La Reunion aren't known to be an epicetrum. So Suriname might be an interesting place.

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Never heard of a Suriname landrace and i know a lot of people from Suriname.

Vintage photos of Panama red is not much to find, but found only this one.

mexcurandero420 said:

Never heard of a Suriname landrace and i know a lot of people from Suriname.

Vintage photos of Panama red is not much to find, but found only this one.

View Image

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Most probably there are some people over there who grow some heirloom varieties.

here is a post "grow report" on a panama

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7747271&postcount=7

Strain: Panama (stock f8 i get them around 2013 ~)



medium : several hydroponic method ( grodan, coco etc, except indoor soil)



nutes : Ferticare IV
as usual

lights : 600w / square meter

days of flowering: 80 days



conclusions: *****
indoors it gives fucking good results, outdoors only warm south region to make big buds usualy finishes early november,
pink pheno is the best, the other greens yields good and ok in or out but i didn t like them enough,



appearance: *****
beautiful, slender, tall growing but nice structure

scents:*****
spicy,with a hint of mint, and some kind of floral

difficulty: *****
easy to grow, only needs patience

results: *****
fantastic sativa, hesitating between kali mist and her, she clearly k.o-d c99 from my garden though 2x flowering time

WHIPEDMEAT said:

here is a post "grow report" on a panama

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7747271&postcount=7

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I could figure out only the stars in the rating,the only Hungarian words I know are Lajos Detari

Edit:Thanks whiped meat!

I haven't seen any signs of dutch or indica genetics in all my Panama x Original Hazes.