Z's amazing cheap diy grow. how to grow top buds at low cost.

Perpetual variety

Perpetual variety

GROW # 3

The goal here is varietey. Lots of varitey. And to keep it perpetual and a sea of green. Due to my plant limmit this is going to be tuff. I only have enough room for 5-6 moms but IM growing more strains

A lot of poly hybrids.. I know.. But the white berry and papaya should be very stable and Might not be hybrids. Kings kush should do well..

Strains are..


personal breeding project, Bonsai berry (mandala M3 x M1)
Green House Kings Kush (grape ape x OG Kush)
Paradise White Berry
Nirvana Papaya
Mandala Safari Mix
TH seeds Wreckage (Arcata Trainwreck x S.A.G.E)
DnA Genetics La Woman (Martian Mean green x LA confidential)

I think thats all. So its going to be tugh picking out moms I might need to cut 1-2 of these strains completely out. The wreckage and la woman are just for fun so might be cut out unless im super impressed.

Papaya will be undergoing some breeding with Mandala and Bonsai berry.These are going to be my main plants. Main plants will also be the white berry and Kings kush. Might be able to get it down to 4 moms.

Im a big fan of the California scene as you can tell.. I wish that they had a better outlet for seeds IN California. I would love to see more strains coming out in seed form I know they have them.



These are some beans taken from the M3 Mom I shall call these F1 Hybrids Bonsai berry.



Germinating some seeds. i like to use the cup method for 24 hours 48 hours max. I change the water out frequently and sometimes I add a little bit of hydorgen peroxide. As soon as they crack I put them Into a Rapid rooter ON top of my fridge to keep them warm.



A Mandala Just peeking out.



Kings Kush and Mandala Seedlings. mandala is the one with the yellow stick.



Some roots. Kings Kush.

More to come.

Id like to talk about my experience purchasing beans.

I ordered from Attitude seed bank. And Also From the Single Seed Center.

Attitude has great prices and hooked it up with lots of freebies. I got 70 bucks worth of genetics (by the seed) For only 16 dollars.

However. They were supposed to replace a seed from a previous order.. But it didnt come.
(nirvana wonder woman) When I contacted them they gave me the same thing as last time.. Let us know when u order next and we will send it out.. Well thats one of the only reasons I placed my order... How do I know it wont happen again? I have given up on attitude.. They charge a lot for shipping.

The single seed center really impressed me. Cheap shipping. And I love how they Include pieces of the package with single seeds. Attitude does not. There was a problem with the nirvana papaya fem seed that came in. The seed was damaged.. No problem they quickly sent out replacements.. they even gave me 4 reg seeds in the place of the single fem bean.. (so i can do breeding) Fast shipping too.

Highly recomend single seed center.. The attitude is good too just hope your order doesnt get messed up.

Those buds are coming along very nicely..................its been so long since ive stopped in but il be sure to be here more often

Zealious said:

And I love how they Include pieces of the package with single seeds. Attitude does not.

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Huh? What do you mean pieces of the package?

Interesting grow you got. I like the pics.

long time no see.

So far m3 has been chooped and here are her nugz.


I also found a new wondeful mom out of m8 and trashed m7. THey were very similar.. m8 for the win with its intense lime smell. Like suggary 7up or something its amazing.

hazy said:

Huh? What do you mean pieces of the package?

Interesting grow you got. I like the pics.

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sorry so long but. What was meant was that when you order single seeds instead of packs from the single seed center. they will actualy cut a portion of the retail packaging that the single seed came from to authenticate that you are getting the seeds from the retail package. =D

Those pictures gave me a boner

ahh yes and my seedlings are going mediocore... If used dif soil than usual. I got a great deal on a huge 6cuf bag of perlite so I opted for a cheaper base soil to mix it in.. I used jungle growth pure organic with neem cake... dont ask what neem cake is becuase i went on jungle growths website couldnt find anything... Good soil is hard to find around here...

so i used a 40% jungle growth to 60% perlite. The jungle growth is WATER LOGIng. I dont think its peat moss. theres something else... Im thinking of using mulch in the future to aerate. everything was great for the first week. the seedlings were coming on nicely. Then week 2 I was getting yellowing... So i fed them all with a compost tea.. they turned back green for a while then yellowed again.. I dont know if the ph of soil is bad or if there just is not much nutrients in the soil but I went ahead and did a light nutrient feedling 1/8 strength fox farm grow. at about 400ppm most perked up and have been doing great.. the white berry is having leaf curl... im not worried about it dont think its nutes i think its the light or heat. could be genetic. other than that it looks good. the others are all doing good nice and green except one of the papaya didnt like the feeding and got some burn spots and yellowing going on in the lower leaves.. its recovered and is doing fine now. but I just dont like any stress on seedlings..

stress on seedlings = longer maturing time and also >chance of geting males..

I guess when ur doing multiple strains the feeding needs will be def among them.. for this reason I will go soil.. once I get a feel for their needs future clones will be getting sexed and possibly go hydro...

ramble on

greengringo said:

Those pictures gave me a boner

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Um thanks I guess. They are pretty sexy. All organic and sexy indeed.

Thanks green...

Looking really good Zealious. I'm digging your grow. Your following the same type of analogy that I follow.. spend the least amount for the greatest return.

It's not just about upfront cost ie. low cost on equipment. It's also getting your best bang for the buck, continually.

a number of factors play into this.

1. turn around time
2. System operation cost including(power,nutrients)
3. Overall yields.

For these reasons my closet consists of a 1k hortilux bulb, RSWC hydroponic system.System also runs a trimeter for constant readout of ppm/ph/temp, and I also have diy carbon scrubber..

Running the Lucas formula(GH micro, bloom) In my area they are the most widely used and is cheapest.

Looks like your getting great results outta you rig, great work dude. One thing i would suggest is you loose the CFL bulbs and invest in a cheap 4 foot flouros(2bulb) These also burn little power(compared to an HPS or MH) and will give you much faster growth in veg. CFL's work OK but only up close and with minimal plant count.

The other thing i would change is your flowering light. MH light spectrum is not optimized for flower or the budding phase of mj life, they tend to grow smaller potent buds, where as an HPS will balloon your potent buds. The other thing you could try is a 400W CMH bulb(optimized red spectrum).This saves you from having to buy a different ballast. Your plants would benefit huge from this change, cause it looks like you got the rest down pat..

The hortilux HPS is primarily red spectrum same as regular HPS lamp, but has an optimized blue spectrum.I use my bulb in veg and flower.

In veg you want blue spectrum, in flower you want red spectrum.Ideally the most optimized is a mix between the two.

Hey wick. Thanks for the comments. Bang for buck is exactly what I am going for as well. I wish you the best luck with your set up. It sounds pretty damn welll.. sound. =D. Your right to factor in all costs.. People dont realize how much it cost for all the small things.. but they do add up. For you I would recomend trying to get your hands on used equipment. things like magnetic ballasts and pots and trays... they do not break down quickly so its good to get them used...
I like the 1k light and I have heard good things about lucas....

I apreciate your recomendations on my set up. You are right about the spectrum.. For me personaly I love flowering with mh. Ive done a lot of research on this subject and I have used hps before and I honestly think there is more light used from mh and the plants are healthier. the nugs are more compact but yea ur right not as large. I like that mh keeps things compact.. there are also other bulbs im going to experiment with that have a more even amount of reds in it.. What it comes down to is science and frankly there is more par the plants use from a mh than hps. I do have warm cfls scattered around for the warm spectrum.. I have been thinking of adding a 250w hps into the 400w hood.. it should double my lumens but keep temps the same... I want to be able to get my hood really close to the cannopy and Ive also been trying to rig some sort of light mover... ghetto style.. maybe home made cervos and shit.. I dont know yet.

Oh and about the tube vs cfls... I get WAY more lumes from the cfl.. Trust me. ITs huge growth is very rapid and compact. U get better penetration into the cannopy from cfls too.. Tubes are great as well for clones and seedling because of the even and cool light... With the cfls i get more heat.. but you have to understand the cfls im using are 28w a piece you time 28w x 8 and thats a lot of light they are also about 3k lumes a piece. I think a tube fluro is about 4k lume for both lights and 60w max for both lights.

well see tho. I have been considering using the tubes to keep temps lower..

Thanks for checking out my grow man and take it easy. Let me know when u get ur set up going would love to see it.

So since the subject of bud size came up... what advantage do large buds have besides "bag appeal?" I know smaller buds and more compact plants in general have the advantage of fitting closer together under a lamp, so what else makes large buds preferable?

How does size affect the burning of the buds? My friend says that when he gets fluffy looking stuff that it tends to burn quickly, which makes for a less enjoyable smoking experience, regardless of potency. He's weird like that, he enjoys the finer aspects of the entire ritual.

I also know that many factors affect potency, but is there any proof that larger buds are generally more potent than smaller buds (of the same strain, say, identical plants grown under seperate lights)?

Btw, regarding neem cake (and since I'm new and need to make some posts somehow) I will post what little I know about neem.

Neem is a plant native to India that has been considered a major ayurvedic herb (Indian traditional medicine) for thousands of years. I first learned about it when I saw that it was an ingredient in a toothpaste that I use. Traditionally, Indians chewed neem sticks to clean their teeth. Neem products have the following properties: they are anthelmintic, antifungal, antidiabetic, antibacterial, antiviral, anti-fertility, and sedative. Neem extracts are popularly used in pest control products because it is effective at repelling hundreds of pests, yet non-toxic to larger organisms.

Neem cake is simply the byproduct of extracting the essential oils of the neem tree. Neem cake is used in gardening in part because of its pest repellant properties. However, neem cake appears to make soil more fertile because it slows decomposition of nitrogen compounds into gas, thus prolonging the availability of nitrogen to crops.

These wikipedia entries have some interesting additional info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem_cake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem

Isn't it funny how plants benefit from each other? Like the mycorrhizal relationship between plants and fungi growing in the same soil, or the plants (and their human pets) across the world who are benefitting from this website. We all work much more effectively when we work together

Oh.....since you asked you betcha i have a thread. I have a little somethin, somthin going on here.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=141051

Let me tell you greengringo exactly what bud size means. Big BUDS mean BIG weight.The whole point is to achieve the nicest possible nugs at the least cost, that includes final yield duder. Big buds are also the most developed spots of the plant. So of course the bigger and more developed they get the more killer they become.BAG APPEAL ie killer herb is what it's about.

Here is some from my last round, trust me homes, these are VERY compact.





a few from last round




Fucken rights bud size matters dudes!!!!Is that a joke or what.lol

Now..... do you guys want to learn how to grow the killer...hmmmm???
....now thats outta the way..........

I honestly think there is more light used from mh and the plants are healthier

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Well I can appreciate all the hard work you did researching all about MH...but your wrong. Flower will always be more potent and larger using HPS lighting. MH strength is in veg, the veg cycle uses more blue spectrum then red. In flower the opposite is true. I have grown colas the size of your leg...Trust ME...

250w hps into the 400w hood.

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thats not a bad idea at all there buds defiantly go for that, but don't think your gonna get away with less heat cause you wont..It will throw more heat.Hope your exhaust is up to the task! With the power you are running you could get a sealed hood close as 6 inchs, but to stay safe i run over 12 inchs gap.Burning tops or to hot of a room is counter productive.

Oh and about the tube vs cfls... I get WAY more lumes from the cfl.. Trust me

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Trust me, get a cheap 2 bulb T8 4 foot flouro with warm bulbs, It will kick the shit out of CFL's chained together anyday of the week my friend.....last i checked they were like 24$ + bulbs.cheap. CFL's life isn't even close to what they say they are. Especially the Eco cheapo CFLS..

I will not steer you wrong bud..

peace.

nicely put wick.

warm tube fluros in veg = disaster.
I know about the t8 and I love them... I use them for seedlings and clones but I use 6500k cool specturm cfls.. Clones do horibly under warm and seedlings grow more compact under cool.

The hps is offical and it will be getting added to my flower.. I am however a advocate of mh in flower.. If you could only pick one I would pick mh.

I mean we are both right wick.. the best flower lighting is MH AND HPS together. during flower.

Oh and about the CMH I thought they would be winners but some people are noticing issues with certain strains... i think the future of indoor lighting will be a mix of led and cfl and mh hps all combined.. Ive heard of plasma bulbs possibly compteing but we will see.

Wick, when I said "bag appeal", I was talking about volume over weight. I guess weight would be "scale appeal." I can imagine that bigger (weightier), more mature buds will also be more potent, but my question was regarding fluffy, light buds in particular.

Basically, what's the difference between two buds both weighing an even gram, but one is twice the volume of the other? From both a grower's and a smoker's perspective...

Basically, what's the difference between two buds both weighing an even gram, but one is twice the volume of the other? From both a grower's and a smoker's perspective...

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From a growers perspective// a commercial grower or your average Joe growen the weed??

Myself I could care less in both cases. If it's killer that's what matters.Taste and burning characteristics is what i base my Killer scale on.

Okay, my next question.. what are your ideal burning characteristics?

gringo im sorry but u are indeed green.. I have to question that you have smoked pot before..

No ofense man But ur questions are extreemly basic.

Maybe in a good way. I dont really know.

Its all prefrance man.. Get out there and get ur smoke on ... find out what u like and emulate it.

I like indicas. Just because I am a medical patient and it offers reliefe. they are not for evfeyoe.. if u want to funtion go with sativias.. but then agian if ur into acid go with sativas.. just smoke more...

find what u like and experiment. thats the best you can do..

if u dont do that than atleast read. Read tons. and ask questions.. or just keep up ur great work green.

Hey nown that i think of it.. i belive4 greg green has a descent book out...