Looking for CO2 Oil Consultant!

tman26 · Aug 13, 2015

Hey guys,

My group is in the process of starting an edibles brand in Oregon and we are in need of help!

We need to know everything involving CO2 Oil Extraction.

All we know so far is which machine we will be purchasing. We'll need consulting via email, phone, on-site, etc...

We are looking to hire a consultant for an extended period of time until the project is complete.

Let me know if anyone would be interested and we'll discuss more details in private.

Thanks!

Symbiotic AD · Aug 13, 2015

Many of the companies who sell the SFE's actually provide basic training of using the oil, and offer advanced training. I'm unsure if you've looked into that already. Good luck in your search.

tman26 · Aug 13, 2015

Symbiotic AD said:
Many of the companies who sell the SFE's actually provide basic training of using the oil, and offer advanced training. I'm unsure if you've looked into that already. Good luck in your search.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, that is something we considered, but would like a more hands on with someone that has technique with refining and working experience with cannabis.

whereisbrianV. · Aug 13, 2015

The manufactures will train you but most often than not they have ran less than and handful of extractions using cannabis.

That is why most co2 machines set in the corner collecting dust. When the manufacture can't make good oil why would someone grind it out and experiment to get a quality product.

Which machine did you purchase?

snake11 · Aug 14, 2015

Symbiotic AD said:
Many of the companies who sell the SFE's actually provide basic training of using the oil, and offer advanced training. I'm unsure if you've looked into that already. Good luck in your search.

Most of the cannabis specific companies(apeks, eden)know very little about how to make good oil. I have many dealings with apeks and eden and found them to know very little about their processes. The only thing they seemed interested in was getting the check. After that it was like pulling teeth to get what we paid for. Many of the mainstream companies know lots about scfe but do not have cannabis experience.

What part of Oregon are you in?

Rickys bong · Aug 14, 2015

Why would you choose SCFE over butane/ propane extraction? Most reports on CO2 extracted oil don't give it high grades. The main issue being the lack of terpenes and flavor.

CO2 is very selective and to get a similar result to butane would take many runs at different parameters to extract what you want. Cost is going to be many times what a butane system would cost. Then there is the issue of extremely long processing times...

RB

Gray Wolf · Aug 14, 2015

I would start by picking Patrick from Eden Labs keen alleged mind, as he has done experimenting with fractionation and shared some killer samples with me.

snake11 · Aug 14, 2015

Rickys bong said:
Why would you choose SCFE over butane/ propane extraction? Most reports on CO2 extracted oil don't give it high grades. The main issue being the lack of terpenes and flavor.

CO2 is very selective and to get a similar result to butane would take many runs at different parameters to extract what you want. Cost is going to be many times what a butane system would cost. Then there is the issue of extremely long processing times...

RB

As someone who ran multiple co2 machines for 2 years I agree about the bho. Especially for an edibles company. The amount you can process is way higher with butane. Much better yields too. Co2 can make terpene rich great oil too but is way more expensive to produce. I think most are using shitty trim for their runs which is why the majority of co2 oil on the market is sub par. Nug runs can have some intense flavours. Most processing for edibles seem to not want a lot of terps/flavours anyways.

whereisbrianV. · Aug 14, 2015

Why even bother with BHO which is expensive and explosive?

You can extract perfectly good oil using Ethyl Alcohol that will give you low cost of operation and great yeilds.

I wouldn't dare make a extract for food stuffs with a solvent that wasn't food grade. Regardless if all of the solvent was purged fully or not the impurities are left for the consumer.

whereisbrianV. · Aug 14, 2015

I can run 3 1000 grams cycles a day in my 5l apeks.

How many runs could a close-loop BHO extractor run in a 8hr shift?

I would be willing to bet on a operational cost comparison Co2 and BHO are very close in cost per gram of finished product.

The big factor that gives BHO the edge is that the current generation of Co2 machines are not completely functional and grossly over priced for their production rates.

A closed loop Ethyl machine could produce greater volumes than any other means simply because the cycle times would be minutes per pound instead of hours.

snake11 · Aug 14, 2015

whereisbrianV. said:
Why even bother with BHO which is expensive and explosive?

You can extract perfectly good oil using Ethyl Alcohol that will give you low cost of operation and great yeilds.

I wouldn't dare make a extract for food stuffs with a solvent that wasn't food grade. Regardless if all of the solvent was purged fully or not the impurities are left for the consumer.

Bho is cheaper then co2. Alcohol is flammable so it's not completely safe either. Alcohol extracts in general tend to be much darker and more filled with undesirables then bho. This translates to worse tasting edibles. Do you realize how many foods that we ingest are solvent extracted? Hexane being one of the most prevalent. Quality bho makers are predistilling their gas to reduce impurities. What grade co2 are you using for your runs??

Symbiotic AD · Aug 14, 2015

whereisbrianV. said:
I can run 3 1000 grams cycles a day in my 5l apeks.

How many runs could a close-loop BHO extractor run in a 8hr shift?

I would be willing to bet on a operational cost comparison Co2 and BHO are very close in cost per gram of finished product.

The big factor that gives BHO the edge is that the current generation of Co2 machines are not completely functional and grossly over priced for their production rates.

A closed loop Ethyl machine could produce greater volumes than any other means simply because the cycle times would be minutes per pound instead of hours.

When you say 1000gram cycles, do you mean output from the 5L vessel? That sounds insane... a 5L vessel can hold like 8lbs and 1000grams is roughly a 30% yield. I have a Waters SFE and we anticipate 10% yields (based on what others with the unit tell us).

For us cost per run gram is slightly cheaper for our CO2 system, but only because we are using 99.99% butane/propane which is double the cost of 99.95%. However, a single run for ~300 grams of oil from our light hydrocarbon CLS takes 2 hours or so (including recovery) where as a single run of ~300 grams of CO2 oil takes about 3-4 hours, and requires multiple parameter changes for optimization.

The purpose behind us using CO2 is the remove the potential of PAH exposure to extremely ill individuals. It logically makes sense to take out any potential harmful variable to that specific group. We use our CO2 for edibles, capsules, tinctures, and vape pens and use our CLS for everything else.

A6 Grower · Aug 14, 2015

whereisbrianV. said:
I can run 3 1000 grams cycles a day in my 5l apeks.

How many runs could a close-loop BHO extractor run in a 8hr shift?

I would be willing to bet on a operational cost comparison Co2 and BHO are very close in cost per gram of finished product.

The big factor that gives BHO the edge is that the current generation of Co2 machines are not completely functional and grossly over priced for their production rates.

A closed loop Ethyl machine could produce greater volumes than any other means simply because the cycle times would be minutes per pound instead of hours.

I can run 8 1000g columns in a 10 hour day.

I agree co2 is just not there yet and the machines are stupid expensive.

Closed loop ethyl would be fine for edible oil but not smoking. Takes way to long to purge the ethyl unless you fully decarb.

tman26 · Aug 14, 2015

whereisbrianV. said:
The manufactures will train you but most often than not they have ran less than and handful of extractions using cannabis.

That is why most co2 machines set in the corner collecting dust. When the manufacture can't make good oil why would someone grind it out and experiment to get a quality product.

Which machine did you purchase?

We are looking to purchase the Apeks 20L 5000PSI

tman26 · Aug 14, 2015

snake11 said:
Most of the cannabis specific companies(apeks, eden)know very little about how to make good oil. I have many dealings with apeks and eden and found them to know very little about their processes. The only thing they seemed interested in was getting the check. After that it was like pulling teeth to get what we paid for. Many of the mainstream companies know lots about scfe but do not have cannabis experience.

What part of Oregon are you in?

Yeah, thats what I was thinking.

We're in Portland.

Symbiotic AD · Aug 14, 2015

We've purchased and received our Waters 2x5L system. They came and did the initial install and training and part of the purchase is that they provide "advanced" training. We have yet to under-go the "advanced" training, but the system is extremely user friendly compared to the other top systems. Also it has three separate collection vessels that allow you to adjust the amount of pressure and heat, allowing you to do some fractionation - albeit not accurately.

Have you looked into some of the other SFEs that are available?

Francy420 · Aug 14, 2015

Try to contact Cannabis Reverend. I think he is up in Washington and runs tons of Co2. I am sure he would take a check for consulting. I know he is on Instagram and Facebook. Also on Hash Church most weekends.

snake11 · Aug 14, 2015

tman26 said:
Yeah, thats what I was thinking.

We're in Portland.

Get to 50 posts and pm me.

Permacultuure · Aug 15, 2015

Whoa guys!! If I'm not mistake this unit was purchased for strictly edible. Just run the system at high psi and you'll have a full extract completely activated. Major consultation is only required if producing high end smoke able products. Which doesn't seem to be your path.

snake11 · Aug 15, 2015

Permacultuure said:
Whoa guys!! If I'm not mistake this unit was purchased for strictly edible. Just run the system at high psi and you'll have a full extract completely activated. Major consultation is only required if producing high end smoke able products. Which doesn't seem to be your path.

Yeah try making edibles from extract made at 5000psi. Tastes yummy!! Great color too!! Lots of high end edible companies require high quality oil for the best taste of their edibles. Not every company tries to use shit oil for edibles to maximize profit.

Looking for CO2 Oil Consultant!

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