[Yard dog]

Originally Posted by mushroombrew

@AVOH sorry for the off topic action...

@ Yard Dog Damn just shy of 20 questions!

The issue I am seeing constantly is extreme variation. Why? because when you find that special 1 in 10,000 female the chances of her being stable are about zero.

If only one plant is a keeper that, in my opinion, is not a "strain" it is just a "cross". A strain should produce consistent, stable offspring.

90% of "Breeders" are crossing clone only to clone only. And using clone only for BX.

The reason I use symmetry as a guide is because I have yet to find a poly that is. I mean all the way through flower perfect balance. I do not want to continue poly x poly breeding. Or spending $1000's on genetic testing to find diploids. Or going as far back as Landrace. So I pick symmetrical plants for at least one parent. So far so good.

Of course as you said fem x fem does not equal poly x poly always. But these days it often does.

I have two copper chem males. One is diploid one is poly. In case you didn't know you cannot breed poly out. One passes Chem 4 terps the other ChemD

I breed the dip male to poly's and the poly male to Dip females. Or dip x dip.

So never poly x poly.

And yes my stud is so great because of what he passes. I have opened up 8 new lines made with him. He passes symmetry, increases terps, and improves resin in both male and female seedlings. He is in a tent with 40 cuts right now. Test pops; then repeat the best and line breed them.

I can use him for BX's. He "cleans" up the genetics and greatly improves anything he touches. How many seed companies have you seen crush it with just 1 male? I can think of several.

I am heading "backwards" genetically to create stable offspring. All the lines I have made are quite homogenous for unworked F1's. Why? Because my male is "true breeding"

I pop seeds constantly. The only seedlings with uniformity I have grown recently come from my stock. That is just sad. I am all for a good pheno hunt but selling gear that fragmented is lame.

Just look at all the S1 clone only seeds around. Unstable crap. I do not need thiosulphate
to be successful. I have no intentions of making any fem crosses. C-Banana S1? Does that C stand for crap? No thanks.

I have a Y chromosome. So does my pollen...

It's just my opinion. Not interested in arguing my views. I have been growing cannabis for 30 years indoors. I came to this point of view with loads of practical experience.
Lost count of how many guys crossing clone only's for 3 years that tell me I am wrong lol

Time will tell.

I am a little confused by the use of the term "poly" here? I took it as polyhybrid but with you stating diploid (which to my knowledge cannabis mostly is).. Are you saying you have natural polyploids in the population?

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Yard dog

I am a little confused by the use of the term "poly" here? I took it as polyhybrid but with you stating diploid (which to my knowledge cannabis mostly is).. Are you saying you have natural polyploids in the population?

Yes we need to agree on terminology to communicate. When i say poly i mean Polyploid. Extra set of chromosomes. Diploid have 2.

Many, infact most, American genetics are Polyploid. Thats why there are so many mutations and phenotypes. Also why you get silly potency. It has been selected for. In my opinion too much.

So I select against it. At least on one side. There is a perfect and maximum spot. A knife edge. Enough poly and potency maxes out 30+. Too much poly creates negative traits and sterility. As breeders are finding out at F8-10.

My Road warrior clone is polyploid. And bears seeds. She is on the edge of no return genetically speaking. Double thick stems. Giant seeds. Full on mutant. But with a diploid male the results are staggering. Wait until you smell "Stable Wrecker" ahaha you have no idea! Perfect amount of poly. And stable/homegenous...You're welcome lol.

[frostqueen]

Originally Posted by AVOH

I think that maybe there should be an offical thread where breeders and cultivators can come and actually write up ideas and policies that actually put some sort of balance to who puts what name genetics or maybe even if they want there line to be out crossed or crossed ethically.

As a private breeder I agree with your philosophy, but the fat lady has already sung and the credits are rolling. No agreement about proper ethics here will make any. difference. whatsoever. to the outside world. Those days are over.

We're living in a new post-legalization clusterfuck world where anything in the public domain is up for grabs. I don't like it at all, but the fact remains. If you want to protect your elite strains and hybrids you'd better make sure nobody has any access to them, period.

I'm in a legal state, and I can assure you that all of the huge warehouse growers that have come here from out of state don't give a single fuck about the ethics of breeding or about the source of what they grow. The sad truth is that they will be breeding every elite type they can get their hands on. They are doing it right now in huge operations everywhere. They don't care if you spent 10 years developing your incredible hybrid. They're just glad to take it and then mass produce it and make millions from it.

Sorry to rain on the ethics parade. Just sayin'. I wish it were different.

[Natural high]

Originally Posted by mushroombrew

Many, infact most, American genetics are Polyploid. Thats why there are so many mutations and phenotypes.

How do you know this? Polyploidy is a relatively rare occurance and cannabis is typically diploid in keeping with most other organisms. Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?

[Roms]

With the legalisation time logically there will be a "plant variety certificate" big plan as for all other vegetals imho!... Then royalties?... Canna-revolution fo sure! ?

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Natural high

How do you know this? Polyploidy is a relatively rare occurance and cannabis is typically diploid in keeping with most other organisms. Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?

Sorry done going off topic. Hit the PM if you like.

[dank.frank]

Originally Posted by Yard dog

DF~

I don't know the scoop on who wronged you...

See, that's why it's abstract. I've not been wronged in any way, because I have an open policy on genetics.

Phillthy and I discussed this until we both turned purple. The conclusion: It's stupid to set yourself up for emotional conflict or controversy over things you really have no control over. The better option for the sake of ones mental health, , is just to let people have free reign, otherwise you are just setting the stage for conflict to exist.

To take it one step further, no one owns the plant. That notion has been fought against more than any other. The proliferation of cannabis was paramount to the core premise of overgrowing prohibition.

I think, in time, life catches up with everyone and eventually, whether we like it or not, there comes a time to crawl into a ditch and die or spend money to continue existing. It's hard to look at something you have dedicated your life to and then to realize you have nothing to show for it. Genetics, have become a means of establishing identity. For creating reputation. For elevating oneself above others. Ultimately, they have become an economic platform propped up by creative marketing of individual personalities.

This is exactly what cannabis use denounces. Mushrooms, will reveal that fallacy even more clearly. Entheogens, reveal to us the fabric of the universe and if we are willing, reveal to us our truest most vile self for the purpose of cleansing our spirit from that which is our own mind. Cannabis is part of that equation. For me, it IS the equation. It is medicine.

I'm realizing though, even that notion, has been manipulated and abused by others, who understand sociology. Many people have been conned by those who seek only to profit off the passion of individuals who have given their soul to strangers through a plant.

Then again, I've made this "argument" before and that is EXACTLY why I have a new signature. Because it is unfortunately relevant and appropriate.



dank.Frank

[Gr33nSanta]

Originally Posted by dank.frank

.....no one owns the plant.......

dank.Frank

it was a great post, this one line sums it up.

[beanz]

Originally Posted by dank.frank

It's hard to look at something you have dedicated your life to and then to realize you have nothing to show for it. Genetics, have become a means of establishing identity. For creating reputation. For elevating oneself above others. Ultimately, they have become an economic platform propped up by creative marketing of individual personalities.


manipulated and abused by others, who understand sociology. Many people have been conned by those who seek only to profit off the passion of individuals who have given their soul to strangers through a plant.




dank.Frank

sad but true

[Dog Star]

Problem starts when we privatize something that dont belong just to us...

this plant evolute in a hands of thousends but inner ego wish everything just
for self,while plant is given to everybody... thats why there is a paradox..

paradox of crying ego that cant accept others will have same as he does...

or maybe he will be overachived with a work that does guy after him,then
again crying wolfs all around how somebody still his work,la la la,etc..

people need to move from their own selfishness if they wish to unveil
a new Heaven... whithouth ego beautifull stuff will happend but folks have hard
time to beat their own devil..

Creation dont belong to some certain ego,creation belongs to superego... or us...
all breeders that made regular seeds are by defoult playing for superego..

those femmed breeders play for profit,they play for ego...

so its easy to choose what kind of breeder you wish to become,does you wish
to give to community further or you choose selfish ways and sell just fem seeds..
think on buiss and dont give a damn about those little one in a chain,dont give
him chance to breed further with your fem seeds..


That is how i sees breeding ethics and keeping creation that does not come from humans,humans didnt invent or create plant so they dont have right to claim creation as their own... its given to humans to use it while we are here on Earth...and thats it,no more no less...