[ChaosCatalunya]

Originally Posted by slownickel

Read Dr. Victor Tiedjens, who also advocated nutrient balancing and look at his production data, both yield and quality went through the roof.

The same that has been happening here, yields and quality going through the roof.

Nutrient uptake is one thing, balance is another.

In NO OTHER agricultural industry does CalMag exist That is a stoner industry input and you all seem to suck it up by the truckload and all that Mg really does screw up your quality. Most farmers/agronomists know the problems you get with all that Mg. Maybe go watch the video in my thread by a couple of PhD's (oops, scientific types, start the bonfire!)

Sorry you are so closed minded to the "science".

But on the chance that you do read Tiedjens you will see the arguments and results of feeding having the balance say 1-2-1, which is reported in P2O5 and K2O. This means more phosphate than potash. However, if you do the math, you would quickly realize that this is actually a 1-1-1 in terms of actual P and K (phosphorus and potassium).

Again, those that tried these ratios all saw amazing results in cannabis, but hey, that is science! There is definitely cause and effect. But if you don't understand what drives the cause, you are just guessing!

I know lots of commercial farmers that think the way you do, you aren't alone. At the end of the day, their results are mediocre and have more excuses than there is sand in the desert.

Given that everyone that has attempted to understand soil science (not what is preached by the fertilizer industry) and apply soil science is loving the result.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!

I always point out that in the Tomato industry, where people with PhDs grow hectares with only a few cents of profit... are probably pretty good people to pay attention to. There you do not see people adding A&B, Cal Mag, PK boosters once a day, you see complex machines constantly monitoring and adjusting the nutrient feeds. Very expensive machines, especially considering the low value low profit crop. So, obviously worth doing, and way further technically than Nutrient Balancing.

[painter66]

jidoka.
seriously,what an awesome facility and awesome grow. truly inspiring.
would you please tell what NPK Ca and Mg ppms you like to hit during your flowering weeks.
if not no worries. But I think it would be a real eye opener.
stay safe man.

[jidoka]

You don’t take Slow’s word for it?

I do some consulting. The work is for people that are paying me and for the tissue testing that drives it. I am not gonna give details

1st thing you have to do is evaluate your environment. How much light, temp, co2, pruning, genetics, etc. the more dialed those things, the higher your potential. The higher that is the more nutes you can use.

The other thing you can do is work with custom hydro. I hope he won’t give my exact formula but he knows what is up.



This is my highest potential grow. From stick the clone in a pot to 2 ft tall with 10 tops in 4 weeks.

[Cannabologist]

Originally Posted by Avenger

ok ok, I did it again. I know....insanity.

So Cannabologist, you equate calcium nitrate with 'calmag'? yet calcium nitrate doesn't contain magnesium. what the fuck?

No, its a mixture of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate... Are you having a problem here?? Sounds like you are misreading
The claim was that "cal mag" is not used... It is, widely. Still no literature on why or when it is not used though. Still an amorphous.
Theres reasons why this stuff comes mixed up... You don't just buy "nitrogen" or "phosphorous" as a fertilizer, and add that silly cakes, you buy complex molecules that are done up in formulations for plants... Yes.. WTF indeed!

https://www.greenhousegrower.com/unc...acronutrients/

https://npk-industries.com/resources_...nts_Alike.html

https://www.sangral.com/Products/San...umNitrate.aspx

ROFL I mean... This is ANOTHER cal-mag product for tomatoes... I could google these kinds of products all day..

"Sangral® Calmag is a fully water-soluble calcium magnesium nitrate. It combines three nutrients in one product for good plant structure, increased photosynthetic capacity and rapid leaf mass development during the vegetative stage of plant growth. Sangral® Calmag shows a fast plant reaction because of the nutrient uptake synergy between nitrates, calcium and magnesium.

Fertigation

Water-soluble NPK´s supply all necessary plant nutrients other than calcium and magnesium, which are only partially supplied. Sangral® Calmag has been formulated to complement these two elements.

Sangral® Calmag provides magnesium and calcium, combined with nitrate nitrogen that enhances the uptake of these two elements.

A high NO3-/ NH4+ balance ensures sufficient uptake of Ca++ and Mg++ and avoids root degeneration, especially at high soil temperatures. Additionally, nitrogen losses by volatilization are avoided when using nitrate nitrogen. For intensive horticulture, nitrate nitrogen is the optimum nitrogen source. Sangral® Calmag, alternated with balanced NPK´s (e.g. Sangral®), will ensure optimum nutrient availability.

Foliar Application

Calcium and magnesium deficiencies often occur simultaneously.

Sangral® Calmag is an excellent way of effectively supplying additional calcium and magnesium during critical physiological or environmental conditions. Due to its low EC, the risk of burning and scorching is low, making it a suitable choice for foliar applications and enabling higher concentrations."

No one is saying you couldn't just apply one or the other as you want to,... But there are reasons why you wouldn't... Likely because if you are having one deficiency you are likely having others along with it

Shit, these supplements don't contain K... In my experience adding potash would also help, but they don't. Because I suppose if you wanted to supplant it yourself, you could. Or lol wait lemme google I'm sure I'll find some things I know I will

[slownickel]

[quote=Cannabolo
Or lol wait lemme google I'm sure I'll find some things I know I will [/QUOTE]

There are many many blends of what is kindly referred to as "woo woo juice" google it bolo. Basically it means taking $0.30 of fertilizer and mixing it with water and selling it to clowns that don't bother to read where it says calcium nitrate and in this case magnesium nitrate. for $75 or more per gallon.

What are the chances that this is what they really need? Ca:Mg at 3:1 or so... what happens to the medium with all that Mg? Stays wet for ever.

No one is saying that you can't grow with woo woo juice in a bottle, this is a weed, it will take all kinds of abuse. However, to raise the bar and achieve quality, high terps, no rasp, etc., that is different.

Many years ago, most of the fertilizers had a much better balance and then the phosphorus was pushed out to a certain extent.

[jidoka]

[Cannabologist]

It's kinda fun!

Originally Posted by slownickel

There are many many blends of what is kindly referred to as "woo woo juice" google it bolo.
Oh boy.... You're not that good at damage control. I figured you wouldn't be back after the calmag thing... Now I see you are doubling down on stupid... O...k..

Basically it means taking $0.30 of fertilizer and mixing it with water and selling it to clowns that don't bother to read where it says calcium nitrate and in this case magnesium nitrate. for $75 or more per gallon. Or it means you are buying a well formulated product at concentrations and ratios the plants you are growing need, you add at a certain rate, and VIOLA! No need to go cray buying loads of chemicals and mixing yourself and guessing and failing and taking all this time... Someone else made it easy for you. Time is money.
NO bottle of calmag is $75 a gallon. LoL well maybe some companies?? You can get a bottle of gh calimagic for roughly $40 a gallon off the top of my head. That is not expensive and no where near your inflated bullshit price. Everything you say is angry nonsense that simply goes on some attack angle that makes literally, no sense and is exaggerated bullshit.

What are the chances that this is what they really need? Ca:Mg at 3:1 or so... what happens to the medium with all that Mg? Stays wet for ever. The chances are in fact super high; all these companies especially the ones that stay in business are making the best products they can with the right formulations and proportions so you don't have to go to all this trouble sourcing chemicals yourself and wasting time doing it wrong the first 3 times trying to figure out what to add and how much and when and then did you wear safety gear while mixing some of those lololol why should it take an advanced chemistry degree to grow great weed again OH it doesn't morons can do it cheap and easy, cheaper and easier than you friend!

Media stays wet if you don't let it dry. A media depending on it's composition could say more or less wet depending on any number of reasons and factors. No one is having this problem with Mg unless you're an idiot and suck at following directions. The problem you are referring to with Mg, is a specific problem with certain soils and is a problem largely with large scale agro field growing and has nothing to do with cannabis indoors in pots or otherwise - you are bring into the discussion a mish mash of concepts that don't jive.

Frankly at this point you are just making up flack because you can't stand being wrong. I can stand being wrong, you go "oh shit, well, looks like I was wrong", and move on. Probably would only take a couple links to some vetted websites to do so.. Idk...

No one is saying that you can't grow with woo woo juice in a bottle, this is a weed, it will take all kinds of abuse. You just said you the opposite though. Now you are changing positions. Adding chemicals is woo woo juice rofl... How mad you are that you are proven SO wrong.. Its hilarious. Woo woo juice lollol
Keep calling chemicals woo woo juice now.

Again, according to you and your ridiculous ill-logic, nitrogen, phosphorous, sure all chemicals, what else, bat guano, lets see, microbes, worms castings, hell, ALL fertilizers at some level can be considered woo woo juice to you!!!

Better start digging up elements out of the ground in your backyard kids, smashing rocks down to bits, heating them up, and separating out those elements to mix yourself and add to your plants....
Because otherwise you are buying snake oil! woo woo juice!! Remember, grow organic!!! And by organic I mean add chemicals!!!!

lol .30cents eh>? Does that include shipping costs too ;-D ?? What about time wasted doing that work lol? Why pay chemists to do what a farm hand should be able to do?


However, to raise the bar and achieve quality, high terps, no rasp, etc., that is different. YEAH OK SURE BUDDY woo woo juice!
And I'm sure to get those terps too I need to dig the rocks myself by my own hands, no backhoes or tools, only human flesh hands, out of the earth myself BECAUSE OR ELSE...

Gtfo.

And and and... Wait.. Yours is magically better now??? ORLY?

NO WAY BRO!!! ORGANICS IS BETTER BRO don't you know you gotta feed the microbes mannnnn. Comeon I can't believe you mannnn monsanto! Dont you know, monsanto bro! Your feeding chems the chem weed is the WORST no terps no taste how can you get taste feeding chems bro you gotta feed your plants shit and poop and piss and vinegar. Literally vinegar and piss lolol.... I mean WTF BRO COMEON you're on icmag how dare you take a shit on organics like that!! rofl olololol

Where are all my religious organic heads here to decry you!!!

ROFL you are feeding chemicals, but now, feeding chemicals, because they are YOUR chemicals, you are getting terps, no rasp.. ROFL yeah ok

Terps rasp, all that is GENETICS BRO... .lolol are you one of those ash morons too who thinks ash changes colors based on how you fertilized and if you grew "organic" or "conventional"?? LOL... oh my God.. Seems like you might be but of a whole new variety rofl... The "sourced chemicals from my back yard vs bought at the store" stone head lol.

Srs though, its genes ;-D

You keep adding your woo woo juice and chasing calcium deficiencies, I'll add fertilizer that has been properly proportioned and figured out to be the optimum balanced ratios of elements for cannabis by scientists the world over, plus all the organic bio stimulant goodies, and grow better weed than you, save more time, more money, yes, save money by buying something whole teams of people put together for me who are constantly testing and innovating more than you or I ever could, and I'll reap all the benefits and rewards by foregoing time wasting nonsense, and just following the process.

All your claims of exorbitant and exaggerated costs are exactly that - nonsensical claims that are in fact time wasting, which are money wasting ventures.

Because in fact sourcing all the chemicals yourself, and trying to mix them up all the time, and doing that over and over... How much time did you just waste?? You wasted too much and you lost tens of thousands to millions simply not doing it right the first time and following the process.

You try to come from an area of sound logic but the practice is not all it appears it always depends on the operation and setup and what the business wants and style of growing of the farmer(s) involved,, most smart businesses will automate as many processes as possible and take out areas where human error is highest and so most all business people aren't going to go with some rando's numbers they made out of their house, they want a proven working business model with a proven process that works.

Many years ago, most of the fertilizers had a much better balance and then the phosphorus was pushed out to a certain extent. What?? And again... I ask and ask and ask... Where are the sources for any of the information you post??? Why isn't any of this common horticultural knowledge that is easily googleable?

The fertilizers formulated for cannabis today are way better than they are 5, 10, or 20 years ago because they have been customized and tailored for drug cannabis and it's needs for over the last 20 years by companies catering not to lettuce or corn growers but weed growers.

But you claim calmag is a 'stoner product' rofl seems like it is marketed to farmers of all sorts for particular plants and it there are good reasons why and you still can't coherently explain or source to us why or why not but pretty sure I told + linked why you'd want the Mg with the Ca and N and not just supplant alone..

Hell sure if you wanted to just supplant Mg you could use epsom salt ie. magnesium sulfate, in fact this is what is in many terp boosters or other finishing products you use throughout the end as you cut out N and Ca but you still want the Mg... But usually you don't use magnesium sulfate throughout and I can think of quite a few good reasons why could you lol? And why instead I'd use a mixture like calmag if necessary that's been formulated specifically for cannabis. Yes you are probably paying for some water, so what, I don't source the chemicals for my own soap and shampoo and mix those up too because what I am paying for in my bathroom is also comprised of water. That is the way it is for most things. Do you source the chlorine for your bleach and then dilute that yourself and then wash your white clothes with that? When you want a beer, do you first, well, grow some hops, then, rofl, well, you get the point to where you have to go to get some beer. Oh, oh, wait, no, first, you have to go to your backyard with your shovel. Oh you don't want to pay for a shovel cause you have 2 good hands? Sure sure guy then get to work!

You can buy epsom salts SLIGHTLY cheaper and figure it out yourself or hey look some company did all these tests and runs on multiple strains of cannabis for years and years with their nutrient products and figured out ideal ratios and formulations and scheduling for what nutrients, how much and when to add them and they did it all for you easy peasy no worries needed!!! It costs me how much more for that epsoms salts in water than have to figure it out myself or let some someone else figure it out and risk screwing up? Its all done for us cheap and easy???? Oh ok yeah lets do that!

You simply say "stoner product" and "woo woo juice" any momo can say that about anything doesn't make it so, but you keep laying down this ad hominem argument that makes no sense and is frankly childish and stupid. There are nutrient lines that forgo supplanting calcium but not many as usually extra is always needed and sure there are varying products that one could use besides products containing calcium nitrate, like calmag products. But calmag works, it's quick, and yeah, its not a bad thing like you claim lol but... ok.. llol...

We don't see any of your magic formulations, what are you using how much and when, where do you source them from what company and then how are you adding what is your procedure, what is the process what do you keep ph at what strains are your formula(s) even good for since strains all slightly vary I mean you could notecard us a wall of text I like reading it's ok

Its like you talk out of 2 sides of your mouth chemicals are bad but yet when YOU add chemicals oh oh, Oooh ok I get it it's not only okay its the best thing everrrrrrr and you are getting all this super quality and OF COURSE everyone else is growing shit rofl k yeah right guy you really gotta drop the bs

[slownickel]

Originally Posted by Cannabologist

It's kinda fun!

You are all over the place guy, chemicals, fertilizers, organic, etc.. hard to keep up with you flying all over the place. Good luck with your "science".

Just found how to ignore someone, wow. Wish I had found this button before!

[jidoka]

When custom hydro and I walked into one grow it was because they were facing a 0.5 million dollar per month nute bill with bottled nutes. We fixed that easily.

But then stuff they did not expect happened. Yield went up significantly. And they have thca data by strain going way back. We have improved that by at least 50% avg. no clue how it compares to anyone else’s quality but I got data for that grow.

Cost, yield, quality all going the right direction is a fair testimonial if you ask my dumb ass. Fuck bottled nute ratios regardless of how many phds are involved

[slownickel]

Originally Posted by jidoka

When custom hydro and I walked into one grow it was because they were facing a 0.5 million dollar per month nute bill with bottled nutes. We fixed that easily.

But then stuff they did not expect happened. Yield went up significantly. And they have thca data by strain going way back. We have improved that by at least 50% avg. no clue how it compares to anyone else’s quality but I got data for that grow.

Cost, yield, quality all going the right direction is a fair testimonial if you ask my dumb ass. Fuck bottled nute ratios regardless of how many phds are involved

I have heard the quality is getting pretty amazing. Congrats.