[newestguy]

Got some pics of the issues it caused. I wasn't really trying to document every aspect at the point I was taking these pics I can't remember if I had brought in the organic soil and coco plants yet, but again this was a condition across the board effecting plants in different medias fed from different solutions that where all different sizes.

This was the sag they would do, it looked a lot like overwatered or VPD suffering plants (again, parameters perfect, different medias, different solutions) I believe at the time of these pics I had things set around 77-79 with 50-55% RH. These are some of the most forgiving parameters I am aware of. Definitely not as aggressive as things can run, but obviously things had problems.

[newestguy]

The other look they would get is almost a salt buildup/mag def canoe look. (to clarfy I mean turgidity would increase and they would be splayed out like they had a salt buildup, but the leaves would canoe like a mag def. Also interestingly enough these would begin to look N toxic at this point, which was one of the issues I had fought in the previous months. I felt like ratios that have always worked and are well excepted by the community would all of a sudden cause N toxicity. Again, I know this looks like a PH root zone issue, you just have to remember different medias all healthy as fuck, would melt quickly in this room.

[newestguy]

One final thing (sorry can't edit or post more than 5 pics to a post, so lots of posts for now)

The damage from whatever this is hung on in the plants, I feel like I am losing more old growth than I normally would but all new growth flowers are incredible. The difference is amazing, just basically had to put up with fall colors a couple weeks early.

[growshopfrank]

If I was in your shoes I would hook up some sort of ventilation so that there could be some air changes throughout the day to see if there is any improvement in the plants growth and vigor
It could be something off gassing or even some bad plastic in the irrigation or watering system
And just for shit and giggles I would carefully inspect the plants for pests including the root zone with at least 20x because you never know

FWIW I understand that this isn't your first rodeo, I'm not trying to talk down to you its just trying to trouble shoot this in a logical progression
Sealed rooms can make your head hurt real bad at times...

[testymctester]

I'm pretty sure I have experienced this issue before. I was growing in a 8x8 sealed tent with mini-split, dehuey, and CO2 generator 3 years ago. I battled round after round of vigorous plants that vegged in a different area and would then suffer when they hit this flower spot. I didn't see improvement until I turned the gas down/off.



This was the first and only sealed setup I have ever run. I have been growing with "fresh air" for the last 3 years because I couldn't figure out what was happening. It's crazy for me to see this thread now.

I just moved into a new spot and have an outside shed I want to convert into a sealed room. I'll be sure to have some fresh air in and outs this time around to see if that makes the difference.

[newestguy]

Originally Posted by growshopfrank

If I was in your shoes I would hook up some sort of ventilation so that there could be some air changes throughout the day to see if there is any improvement in the plants growth and vigor
It could be something off gassing or even some bad plastic in the irrigation or watering system
And just for shit and giggles I would carefully inspect the plants for pests including the root zone with at least 20x because you never know

FWIW I understand that this isn't your first rodeo, I'm not trying to talk down to you its just trying to trouble shoot this in a logical progression
Sealed rooms can make your head hurt real bad at times...

No worries at all bro, I totally understand, cover the simple stuff first. Kind of the problem is that I did all that. I approached sealed very carefully. Started with air exchange plus co2 and even then suffered issues. I sealed up more and had issues, by the time I ran it completely sealed I kicked myself for not doing that first. I absolutely would have caught these issues to begin with. I was too afraid of a sealed environment. Turns out there a little tricky to balance but once you do they never change a bit. I love them. Honestly nothing to be afraid of, unless you end up with this issue. Really the only thing that could cause it to not be the generator is if it turned out the controller was bad. I don't think it is based on quick calculations about how long it would take to reach saturation. Its not right on what I think it should be but its not that far off. I do think I am gonna grab a sentinel cchh4 or whatever. I want it so I can hit environmental levels off the bottles late in flower. I really like running sealed, hate to even switch on the air exchange to ripen them.

Originally Posted by testymctester

I'm pretty sure I have experienced this issue before. I was growing in a 8x8 sealed tent with mini-split, dehuey, and CO2 generator 3 years ago. I battled round after round of vigorous plants that vegged in a different area and would then suffer when they hit this flower spot. I didn't see improvement until I turned the gas down/off.

View Image

This was the first and only sealed setup I have ever run. I have been growing with "fresh air" for the last 3 years because I couldn't figure out what was happening. It's crazy for me to see this thread now.

I just moved into a new spot and have an outside shed I want to convert into a sealed room. I'll be sure to have some fresh air in and outs this time around to see if that makes the difference.

That looks very much like the issue. I can kind of see the same mag def, n tox there that is characteristic of whatever this is. Really wish I would have detailed this better. My goal here in starting this thread is really to let others know that its not normal. I definitely experienced the negative effects of whatever this is even when I had exchange. I ran it both actually air cooled (fans on an environment controller in the winter) and also with just a passive exhaust with the ac running. Both had issues. Not nearly as bad as completely sealed but it does still create insta schwaag in the sense that it seems to effect terpine oil production pretty bad. Also I never felt like i got nearly the stack and swell that I would normally. It seemed as though it created an increased maturing of the plant that killed yield and quality by the end.

[testymctester]

I can definitely remember the insta-schwag. Ugh. Strains I had previously run struggled and finished all fucked up in this spot. I couldn't figure it out.

So, what's your thought then if it is not air exchange? I had a CAP propane 4-burner C02 gen running off store bought Blue Rhino gas. My flame was blue when I checked it out.

I'm starting to work on a new room this weekend and was planning to solve the old problem by incorporating air exchange into the room design.

[newestguy]

Originally Posted by testymctester

I can definitely remember the insta-schwag. Ugh. Strains I had previously run struggled and finished all fucked up in this spot. I couldn't figure it out.

So, what's your thought then if it is not air exchange? I had a CAP propane 4-burner C02 gen running off store bought Blue Rhino gas. My flame was blue when I checked it out.

I'm starting to work on a new room this weekend and was planning to solve the old problem by incorporating air exchange into the room design.

My guess is that the autopilot (and probably the blueprint) are just clones of the cap products. It seems to me that when cap went out of business last year both of those companies popped up over night vending near exact copies of all of the cap products. I hated cap but used to use them because I could get the stuff cheap. Sometimes cheap isn't what its cracked up to be.

I can definitely promise you that air exchange will not solve the problem if you are in fact having the same issue I was (which I believe you are based on the very unique characteristics of the problem).

Someday I will have to try some other brands of co2 gens but for now im just too afraid. I am using bottled gas, and while its a pain its soooooo nice not to have this problem.

I would either straight air cool or go to bottled gas. If you want to though you buy another co2 gen, that would be awesome because then you could tell me if it keeps happening. Since you have seen the problem you could identify it again. I probably will give up at some point and try a sentinel or something, just not doing it now.

I am honestly afraid this problem is more common and people just think they are having trouble with a sealed room. Honestly as long as the infrastructure is there to cool and dehu the room, sealed is extremely desirable.

[Mikell]

I'm not sure why you asked for advice if you already have all the answers...

Definitely the poison was most noticeable with the room completely 100% sealed.

periodic venting slowed the crash

When the generator ran all new growth would sag

the room ran better when pulling negative pressure with a 6" fan filter combo.

You had a room that ran perfectly, until you added a burner. Things went down hill, until you added some fresh air, upon which it slightly improved. Then, you switched to bottled, and things took off. Seems straight forward, at least from here.

I think I even tried an active intake, turning down the intake fan with a rheostat, not positive I left that on for long, because the burner just ran non stop.

We ran an intake under a timer, 5 minutes an hour was more than sufficient.


Maybe get an O2 meter, so you can observe the action of combustion depleting the rooms oxygen. At the very least, it would verify or dismiss that as the cause.

[the gnome]

Originally Posted by newestguy

The atlas 7 that was controlling that generator is currently controlling the bottled gas with no issues. I do not suspect it being the problem. I have not re calibrated or checked it with a second meter (wish I could but gonna wait awhile before buying anything else). One of the reasons I trust the meter is I am able to calculate the time it will take the bottle to bring the room up to correct saturation at the right PPM. So far I have always seen it on an appropriate amount of time.
.

how many ppm's did you have in the room with the burner?
do you have a Co2 monitor that can tell you what your actually running?
and not a controller that you set specific ppm's by entering a set point value.
I'm not familiar with your unit so if it has a display... my bad