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Old 05-22-2012, 12:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Yes4Prop215 View Post
its absolute BULLSHIT that real estate values are down because of marijuana growers....

the marijuana market is the only thing propping up many of these counties..
So true, in the Triangle... Such as it is..

People moving out to the area from other states helps support high RE prices. Handed down Properties keep many families going. Must be nice. The remainder only have what they have.

There are RE agents who cater to the growers primarily - I am sure they are thriving. Many people come out with pockets full of cash and follow their dream of growing Medicine. Most do not succeed on any level. Some do.

The End of the 'Glory Days' for this area is what is happening now. Many are packing. As well as new people arriving, with their shiny new money. Other People lining up to access the funds.

Authorities are very aware of the fact that there is really no Local Commerce without 42o money. \

Local Retail is in the doldrums in a good year, new car sales, etc.,

Basically everything except Grow stores, Pot Brokers and Real Estate Agents (who often run for local office) are dead horses financially.

Except for what 42o money buys..

Things are not at all what they used to be regardless. All Things DO change.. That's the lesson obviously.

The question in my mind is: Will eventual Legalization bring on increased demand for Hi-Q product..?

Keep fighting the Good Fight...!!! Whatever you perceive that to be..
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:44 AM   #32
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I live in Nevada county fuck these supervisors everyone is going to plant big just like usual.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:01 PM   #33
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Not everyone. I spent Tuesday with a friend in GV, he's dispersing his garden and moving to El Dorado county, keeping a much lower profile. He wants to be completely off the radar, and I can't blame him.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:01 PM   #34
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Isn't el dorado county considering a ban on outdoor in November?
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:13 PM   #35
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I personally haven't read anything about that, but they've been at least discussing limits, and I've been under the impression that they do have OD cultivation limits at this time. Something like 100'sq...?
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:43 AM   #36
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I view 200 outdoor plants in a field as an abuse of the medical law. I know alot of you won't like reading this but no one needs a hundred pounds of weed a year. 5.7 pounds is a quarter ounce a day and thats a lot of chronic plus all the hash. You make it hard for people like me who are really sick to get respect because non smokers think of you assholes growing fields. The Feds are pricks but shit would be better if medical patients were required to grow thier own and be limited to indoor and a reasonable plant count. IT IS THESE FIELDS THAT ARE HURTING US

And now the flamming starts by those that sell thier medicine to non patients and cannabis dispenceries that have 90% healthy people as customers.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #37
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I view 200 outdoor plants in a field as an abuse of the medical law.
Indeed, as do those who simply don't like marijuana or those who use it. However, how do you or they know, factually, what's happening with that 'field' of cannabis? Sure, there is lots of speculation and conjecture, but in the end, unless you're actually 'in' on it, you can't state unequivocally that you know what's happening to it.

Then there's the offensive notion that you present, the concept that you or anyone else can tell me or anyone else how much is sufficient for their needs. That's what I personally find offensive.
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Originally Posted by pip313 View Post
I know alot of you won't like reading this but no one needs a hundred pounds of weed a year. 5.7 pounds is a quarter ounce a day and thats a lot of chronic plus all the hash. You make it hard for people like me who are really sick to get respect because non smokers think of you assholes growing fields.
So, according to you, anyone who's growing for a collective is an asshole because they're growing at a large scale for those who, for whatever reasons, cannot or are not growing their own. Do I have that right?

Is illness the only valid reason for MMJ in your view as well, or can chronic pain be an allowable condition as well? I'm curious about that.

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The Feds are pricks but shit would be better if medical patients were required to grow thier own and be limited to indoor and a reasonable plant count. IT IS THESE FIELDS THAT ARE HURTING US
WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO CANNOT GROW THEIR OWN? Shit outta luck? Black market is where they'll go. Then what?
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And now the flamming starts by those that sell thier medicine to non patients and cannabis dispenceries that have 90% healthy people as customers.
No to both assertions. I will tell you that your words are offensive because I've been on both sides of the equation. Last year I was not able to easily grow for myself, and could only get a crop due to the extensive help of others. I know, or KNEW, because now they're dead, others who could not grow their own because they were straight up too sick, could hardly get out of bed let alone tend plants on a daily basis, and that's just the growing side of it.

What you're doing is completely impugning any and all collective cultivation scenarios, and I know too many people who are doing it right, who are providing to those who would otherwise have to go entirely without OR use the black market to simply allow your accusations to stand without rebuttal. The idea that just because someone is growing a large number of plants ONLY because they're ultimately selling to the black market is simply offensive.

The idea that they're making those who have real illness or injury/pain and need to be less legitimate is also offensive, but that's not happening because of large grows. It's happening because people jump to conclusions, and yes, there *is* abuse of the recommendation system that we have here in the state.

Why should we be relegated to indoor-only growing? What about those who simply cannot afford it, from setting up the space to paying for the power? Do you pay PG&E rates, perchance (or are you one of those who's blowing it up indoors while getting CARE rates from PG&E or whatever power company serves you)? There is no good logical basis for that assertion other than your myopic view that everyone should be able to do and use as you do and use. That's just wrong, how dare you?

And while I still have not yet set foot in a dispensary, I know plenty of people who use them, and not a one of them is considered to be anything resembling completely healthy. Some have mental health issues, some have physical issues, but NONE of them are perfectly healthy.

That is not to say that I personally don't condone recreational use, because I absolutely do condone it. I used it recreationally for years. Then I was injured, and a friend who was suffering yet another bout with cancer told me that it would help with my pain. I didn't believe him, but did what he suggested--stopped using entirely for a month. He was right! It did help, a great deal, with the pain. Does that mean that now that I use it medically that I no longer like getting high? Of course not.

Please, don't paint me or anyone else with such a broad brush unless you yourself wish to be painted thus.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #38
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I think that you both have valid points. The biggest problem that I see with large outdoor grows is where they are sited and how the issues with the neighbors are handled. Obviously there are people who are incapable of growing their own, whether it be from the state of their health or their living situation, and they should have access. However, large outdoor grows in residential areas, or even in areas with small-acreage parcels, do nothing for our image with the straight community. We may like the smell of the plants as they mature, but many people don't. It is an extremely valuable crop and brings all of the attendant problems with security, theft, supplemental lighting, etc, etc.

I don't know the best answer, and haven't run across what I consider to be the most reasonable solution. I don't think that limiting large grows to zoned farmland is necessarily the answer, but the way that we are currently doing things is seriously alienating the straight population, and they vote in far larger numbers than we do. As we are seeing all over California, thumbing our nose at them because we currently have the legal high ground is only resulting in seriously limiting or removing our rights to cultivate.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:14 PM   #39
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LOL, I think pip313 might be on to sumpin that's been an open secret for quite a while.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:32 PM   #40
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I think that you both have valid points. The biggest problem that I see with large outdoor grows is where they are sited and how the issues with the neighbors are handled. Obviously there are people who are incapable of growing their own, whether it be from the state of their health or their living situation, and they should have access. However, large outdoor grows in residential areas, or even in areas with small-acreage parcels, do nothing for our image with the straight community. We may like the smell of the plants as they mature, but many people don't. It is an extremely valuable crop and brings all of the attendant problems with security, theft, supplemental lighting, etc, etc.

I don't know the best answer, and haven't run across what I consider to be the most reasonable solution. I don't think that limiting large grows to zoned farmland is necessarily the answer, but the way that we are currently doing things is seriously alienating the straight population, and they vote in far larger numbers than we do. As we are seeing all over California, thumbing our nose at them because we currently have the legal high ground is only resulting in seriously limiting or removing our rights to cultivate.
It's happening in all the medical states, not just California. And go ag zoned? Not if this is any indicator of what's to come.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/05/22/...t-growers.html

Quote:
Tulare County announced Tuesday that it is suing five people in a medical marijuana collective for growing pot in the wrong location.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Tulare County Superior Court, states they are violating the county's land use ordinance by growing marijuana in a rural area near Cutler in northern Tulare County zoned exclusively for agriculture. Under the county's ordinance, medical marijuana collectives and cooperatives must operate in a commercial or manufacturing zone.

California law allows people with medical marijuana recommendations from a doctor to grow marijuana for their personal needs, but the county's ordinance regulates the practice by saying that collectives must grow plants "within a secure, locked, and fully enclosed structure."

Too many murders, attempted murders and home invasion robberies have taken place in Tulare County in recent months because of disputes involving medical marijuana, putting the public in danger, according to officials.

Eight homicides linked to marijuana growing happened in the county from October 2010 to October 2011, and three attempted murders occurred since September 2011, according to the county.

"The biggest complaint we have from our constituents is they do not feel safe around these marijuana grows," Board of Supervisors Chairman Allen Ishida said. "People don't feel safe when bullets are flying."

The owner of the one-acre property at 38757 Road 140 near Cutler is Mario Baltazar, according to county assessor records. Baltazar is named in the lawsuit; attempts to reach him for comment Tuesday were unsuccessful. Also named are Dion Baltazar, Sotero Ibarra Salgado, Ana Ysabel Raygoza-Mayorga and Horacio Raygoza.

The lawsuit states that the county sent them letters telling them to stop growing marijuana but the letters were ignored.

This is not the first time Tulare County has sued medical marijuana growers. In 2009, the county sued Foothill Growers Association for growing marijuana in a building on agricultural property near Ivanhoe and cited the same ordinance. The collective put up a court fight but lost.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #41
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There is a definite problem with the present scenario of people using residential neighborhoods for major cultivation operations. In my situation (I'm a wake and baker by the way) I'd like to point out the unpleasantness of those who think more dogs is the answer to your security problems.

So you got yourself a little residential lot and you want a secure grow situation. A lot of people seem to think the answer is to fill your yard with aggressive dogs. Yeah it's your legal right (to a point) but it's going to alienate your neighbors. Maybe you don't give a fuck but these people are going to get sick of living next to your compound, and will get a real sour taste whenever medical marijuana is mentioned. Blame yourselves.

In my quiet neighborhood the guy behind me bought a small lot and did this. When I saw him running electricity to a back building I suspected what was up. When he filled the yard with dogs I had little doubt. Dumb-shit mounts a swamp cooler on the outside of his storage shed. Who mounts a swamp cooler on a storage shed? No carbon filtration so depending on what way the wind is blowing there's NO DOUBT. Guess he depends on the stench of dog shit to be his odor control.

Everyone living around me is sick of his dogs barking at every kid walking down the street. I really don't appreciate being confronted with a threat display from large aggressive animals whenever I step into my backyard. Idiots like this give the movement a bad name. Costs us lots of votes every time this comes up for election.
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:18 PM   #42
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It's happening in all the medical states, not just California. And go ag zoned? Not if this is any indicator of what's to come.
It would be interesting to see what the rationale was for limiting grows to a commercial or manufacturing zone. For warehouse grows, I could see this - the amount of power needed would be enough to exclude it from an agricultural area. For large outdoor grows, ag zoning makes a hell of a lot more sense than the current mess. It seems to me that if a grow is large enough to be someone's exclusive source of income, by definition it becomes agriculture.

Crusader Rabbit, your post is dead on. I understand that a lot of people in this economy have turned to cultivation in order to keep their heads above water, but the scenario that you present has become very common and works against us. The voting populace gave us the legal right to do this, and they can take it away.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:09 PM   #43
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"Then there's the offensive notion that you present, the concept that you or anyone else can tell me or anyone else how much is sufficient for their needs. That's what I personally find offensive"

Feel free to be offended, i'm offended you try to imply that even at pg&e rates (I did look them up) its not affordable. I am dirt poor myself and have been my whole life and I could afford to grow at those rates. If you were really for your patients you would give them free weed and charge them for your costs and time, thats what I do. My patient could grow he just chooses not to due to his brother's kid that comes over. If they can't afford a grow then that sucks but that is no excuse for open fields, something else needs to be figured out. I am not against small backyard grows, privacy fences should be required though.

Also do not act like growing weed is hard, its not there are plenty of fool proof methods and as long as you have easy to clone strains its retardedly easy.

I am a caregiver in michigan, I grow for someone who "can't" and we do just fine on 12 plants each indoors. In fact I regurally have to destroy extra in order to comply with my local laws. Collectives are not nessisary they are abuses. If you want to grow fields then more power to you but don't claim it to be for you and your patients medical use its for profit, you are a cartel just a small not mexican one. I have chron's disease, chronic pain is something I know alot about but I don't need a field nor could I ever smoke it all before the next year, as I said 5.7 pounds is a quarter ounce a day plus hash from trim.

I LOVE CANNABIS I THINK IT SHOULD BE LEGAL

However I don't want to loose my medical card because you want to be greedy. The feds could shut mmj down instantly by refusing to disperse anymore money to the states with mmj. States will choose money over us, and if anyone thinks states run off thier own money without federal "grants" you need to do your own research.


If it was really only the sick, no mmj doctors signing forms for money, everything indoors out of sight and secure the public would be forced to realize its a good thing for society. Instead we got fields where there is either weed stolen or people threatened with violence when they try to steal. Either way the fact that its out in the open in view of anyone is the issue along with the massive amount. If you have enough people that you need to care for then use a barn or warehouse however I don't see why one person needs to be responsible fore more than 5 people.

Michigan's laws are better than cali's from the prospective that michigan is really for the sick and cali is just legal drugs. California still does not allow out of state cards, yet they allow fields. Michigan reconizes out of state cards (not sure what the point is though as we are not supposed to have dispenceries) and we have reasonable amounts of plants, finished product, and are required to do so in a enclosed locked facility which could be a outdoor fence pen with a roof and everything but indoors is whats done 99% of the time here. NO FEAR OF BEING ROBBED FROM SHIT OUT IN THE OPEN

We are left alone by most out cities (oakland county sucks) because we don't cause problems like you do in cali. People around here have the "well what they do in thier home is thier busness" attitude and I love it.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:24 PM   #44
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I was there For a while.. And can compare... I love the State (MI) for many reasons... But, It is not really better from an MMJ standpoint. Different but not better.

I agree local Law-enforcement in Mitten-land can be quite "Hands-Off" about MMJ, in some areas... UNTIL a neighbor calls in a complaint that a filter is not functioning properly..! lol.. Then there can be problems. But, by and large, many folks have a bit more space than Californians do. Also, Californians might be more "Other-Directed" than Mitten-landers.. Who are all about minding-their-own-business, and being respectful, which I really like...

However, In some places, People blow up warehouses with SUBSTANDARD medicine. Mega Air-Conditioning, no outside air.. a plastic enviornment... Wasteful...

Or in fetid basements, with no ventilation, either way..

Much of the Medicine is Diseased, almost always Powdery Mildew and Mites.... I saw many folks fail run after run...

Most are Pulling super early, to get the buck before the diseases and pests ruin ALL value. The Top-Shelf medicine at even reputable Dispensaries is b-grade at best. Knowledge of genetics is not very deep. Homemade Hydroponic methods are popular, but not very effective sometimes..

"Oops - For hours, before it gave out, that Sump pump we use in our DIY aeroponic system leaked all its' oil which was 24/7 sprayed into the roots - and stressed the plants beyond repair..! The roots are greasy brown and smelly..>!
What should I do...?"

"Rinse it off as best you can," said the Midas-Minded 'Boss,' "it is almost time to harvest..!"

TRIM PARTY...!!! yUK.



If Folks could really grow outdoors with all that humidity and the rain believe me, Greed would surface JUST as much.

How absurd is that, to have to put up a 6-foot fence immediately around your greenhouse, and watch most of the sidelight not get in...!!! More Mildew because of the shadows...

Of course, the Jester from Hell, William "Bill" Schutte - the crazy AG - who could implode the whole system at any moment.

72 plants includes all rooted clones.. Not easy to provide for your 5 other patients as well as yourself, with 72 total... A grower will need clones, teens, and mothers - as well as flowering stock... Do the math...

VERY Many Patients are unable to stay with any ONE Caregiver due to not receiving ANYTHING, or anywhere near what was promised when the Patient signed over to the Caregiver. An act allowing the Caregiver to grow 12 plants "for that patient" - and 5 others if desired, including oneself.. Many "Caregivers" get their friends and relatives to obtain a "Doctor's recommendation," which is as easy to get as in California... And NEVER Give them anything for the service..! They sell their meds to dispensaries, or anyone they can, and take a trip to _____ (carribbean Island, fill in the blank)..

I suggested to a "Maxed-Out Caregiver that I knew to give one ounce to each patient per month, and he looked as at me as if I had asked him to Fly to the moon.. No recompense for those whose cards he was growing for.. They either did it as a favor, ir were duped. I heard that from a few people who were "Caregiving." Why would they want to do that..?? lol...

Many Patients end up getting nothing... Bouncing from one to another, Desperately looking for a Caregiver who can do what he/she promised, and then who actually DOES it.. ! It is a scene played out in all counties of the state.

Quite a few good points have been made here, such as the "BAD NEIGHBOR" scenario described above.

This is awful, and a real factor in the rural parts of Northern California. I get fired up over this too.. But, at least here, some of the people who have aggressive Dogs 5 abandoned vehicles, etc., as described above are NOT Growing, just bad neighbors...

SO: Rule #1 is: In the Country (or anywhere) Be a GOOD NEIGHBOR.. We all know that....!

It is so simple to make judgements from the sidelines...
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:39 PM   #45
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VERY Many Patients are unable to stay with any ONE Caregiver due to not receiving ANYTHING, or anywhere near what was promised when the Patient signed over to the Caregiver. An act allowing the Caregiver to grow 12 plants "for that patient" - and 5 others if desired, including oneself.. Many "Caregivers" get their friends and relatives to obtain a "Doctor's recommendation," which is as easy to get as in California... And NEVER Give them anything for the service..! They sell their meds to dispensaries, or anyone they can, and take a trip to _____ (carribbean Island, fill in the blank)..

I suggested to a "Maxed-Out Caregiver that I knew to give one ounce to each patient per month, and he looked as at me as if I had asked him to Fly to the moon.. No recompense for those whose cards he was growing for.. They either did it as a favor, ir were duped. I heard that from a few people who were "Caregiving." Why would they want to do that..?? lol...

Many Patients end up getting nothing... Bouncing from one to another, Desperately looking for a Caregiver who can do what he/she promised, and then who actually DOES it.. ! It is a scene played out in all counties of the state.
Surely the patient can reclaim their card, if someone just lets a person keep their rec after not coming through with any herb, then its on them really....
If I were in that situation, the grower would have 14 weeks from the day I give him the card to come through with MY 11 plants worth of smoke, or I will be taking back my card/getting it invalidated and requesting a new one.
Too many greedy fucks using sick people as cover for sure, some growers seem to be operating under the mistaken impression that the weed grown under someones card belongs to the grower to dish out as he chooses. It is definately a problem in some collective grows(based on discussions I've had with folks), too much scope for exploitation.
If the card says 12 plants, and the grower grows 12 plants, I want 11 plants worth of weed, and the grower can do what he will with the other.
There are also a lot of very compassionate people, who truly do want to help people, and who live in circumstances that could be greatly improved-if only they would be a bit more greedy,but its just not in them to do so...
To my mind a collective is a group of people sharing the bills and and sharing the product, not a grower collecting recommendations, growing at the max limit, but only giving the cardholders 1 percent of what has been grown under their name and selling the rest to them and others at full black market prices.
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