[Microbeman]

I don't have much time; Got construction workers showing up this AM. Coot & CT Guy, that is very well said. Jeff's book is not perfect (I've made some corrections to him, accepted graciously) but it is perhaps the best contemporary introduction, on the market broadly, to the microbial (the only) aspect of organic growing. Jeff is my friend and he accepts when I take a stance different from his. It was not always this way on the forum but once he understood that I know some stuff, his tune changed. At that point he never interfered if I contradicted a post by Elaine so long as I was not insulting. I did not like that she was allowed to be insulting but CT Guy has explained that well enough.

Spurr, I was not privy to your posts which were blocked and I don't agree with it but perhaps things may have evolved over time as they did with me.

I do not like what is happening at SFI and I think it is a shame that many feel they need to test there to legitimize their products. I do see a big collapse of confidence in SFI coming, once more people realize the collusions going on. It seems that if you spend lots of money at SFI/Earthfort you get good test results. I hope I'm wrong. Some will know that I found a large problem with their testing process a few years back. I have a customer with one of my brewers who is a commercial ACT applicator. He had a client who wanted to see a good SFI test. I told him how to tweak the test so as to get good results by doing a short brew and let the bacteria multiply and fungi grow during shipment and the flagellates and amoebae would excyst and multiply in the SFI culture plates. It worked perfectly but had he applied that ACT it would not have been ready.

[spurr]

Hey guys!

CTGuy, good post, that is pretty much what I thought your take on the topic was. I have some poor personality traits such as I am very far from a diplomat, I would rather burn a bridge than allow an untruth from an expert to go un-called-out (ex. I just tore into Jorge Cervantes about much wrong info in his book/s).

I guess I just expect everyone to act in an altruistic manner all time and set a very high bar for themselves regardless of the finical incentive to do otherwise. I am not talking about you, like I wrote, I think you do act in an altruistic manner, I have a very high opinion of you; I am talking about Elaine, Jeff, et al. I really dislike money as a main motivation for teaching and for research, they make very poor bedfellows. I guess I am purist and it helps that I don't rely upon anything from Dr. E to make money. I see what you mean in that Jeff, yourself, etc., need to tread lightly about Dr. E...

It's mostly Dr. E that I have deep disrespect for, I only slightly disrespect Jeff (I have never had interaction with Wayne) because to me Jeff is a sellout from how he acts on his yahoo group. YMMV. And the fact he relies much upon Dr. E for info in his book (re: compost, bacterial dominate vs. fungal dominate, etc.) bothers me; people reading his book (who don't know any better) think the way he describes making compost is ideal and yet it's far from ideal, he doesn't talk about C:N ratios, moisture content, etc., etc. His and Dr. E. prescribed method to make compost is what I term 'ACT compost', not real humus rich thermal compost (e..g Luebke compost).

RE: Jeff and his book

I agree 100% his book is great, not in terms of academic perfection, but in terms of being an amazing book for the basics in an easy to read and understand format. While I have a few bones to pick with his book, my issues with this book do nothing to detract from the huge values his book offers. My issues are minor in scope and don't effect the overall goodness of the book. My issues with his book would fall under the 'perfectionism' fallacy which I tend to fall victim to (i.e. if it's not perfect it's not worth doing). The only gripe I have with his book that I think is very valid is his lack of referencing claims made that are not common knowledge, I think he should have gone the extra mile and properly referenced info.

yrs, spurr

(CC, now that Matt Raize's thread is locked I will make a new thread for a few posts where ppl asked me questions, like yours about minerals. I avoided posting in his thread due to the fact it was far too long and was become a bitch fest.)

[Clackamas Coot]

Originally Posted by spurr

(CC, now that Matt Raize's thread is locked I will make a new thread for a few posts where ppl asked me questions, like yours about minerals. I avoided posting in his thread due to the fact it was far too long and was become a bitch fest.)

I should apologize for my unnecessary posts on that thread - it was pointless.

RE: EarthFort

Several months back an organic farm down in the Willamette Valley began to sell their thermal compost under the 'Marwest' label. It's available at the organic farm stores for $8.00 for 1.5 c.f. or $5.34 per 1 c.f. - an amazing price for the quality. Then about 6 months ago they began to sell their EWC under their new name 'GroundUp' and I had the opportunity to visit their farm and we discussed their products being used to make to a high-end potting soil.

The farm is 300 acres a few miles east of Salem in one of the most beautiful farm areas in Oregon. They're doing everything by the book - the owner didn't hit the lottery but almost as good - he was in on the ground floor of Yahoo in the 1990's when they went public. Big money and this gentleman spent some of the money wisely.

Now EarthFort/SFI are working so the compost and EWC will be distributed by them exclusively. Currently EarthFort sells 2 humus products - Denali Gold (they used to sell it under the name 'Alaska Humus') and Cascade Compost which is from a small operation down in Klamath Falls, Oregon.

Both of these products cost $22.00 FOB at their office in Corvallis, Oregon. The chances that EarthFort will continue with the pricing currently available once they've yanked the product from the farm stores is somewhere between nil and none. I expect that the price on the former 'Marwest Compost' will increase by a minimum of 300% assuming that they stick with the 1.5 c.f. size.

Then there's the deal with the seaweed extract at EarthFort. KIS sells seaweed extract for under $15.00 per lb. That's less than the 1 lb. price from one farm store and the other store has a 3 lb. minimum for $36.00 - so basically the soluble seaweed extracts run between $12.00 - $16.50 per lb.

EarthFort sells the exact same seaweed extract for $27.00 per lb.

And then there's the fish hydrolysate product that they now sell. Last year they were carrying Organic Gem which is a very high-end product. And the pricing was almost inline with the online retailers for this product.

Now they have their own fish hydrolysate and the price is almost double of the former product/price. That wouldn't be too bad if this product walked on water - it's out of a packer in Anacortes, Washington that process the fish into hydrolysate and packs for at least 6 companies that I'm aware.

That's not a bad thing necessarily but if you were to buy Down-To-Earth's Fish & Kelp Liquid you'll be buying the very same fish product and the 'kelp' in their product is the same seaweed extract from Nova Scotia.

Good racket.

CC

[Albertine]

Oh, say it aint so, CC! How much longer before it gets locked up?

What are the test results on the Yelm and 4 Corners castings? Are there any other options for viable ewc/compost after this happens?

Originally Posted by Albertine

Oh, say it aint so, CC! How much longer before it gets locked up?

What are the test results on the Yelm and 4 Corners castings? Are there any other options for viable ewc/compost after this happens?

Depends on what you're looking to use the material for. Are you trying to make a tea or use it as part of your soil mix? How much material are we talking about?

[spurr]

FWIW, here is a good book:

"Handbook of Microbial Biofertilizers"
Mahendra Rai (Editor)
Psychology Press, 2006


Read some of it for free at Google Books:
https://books.google.com/books?id=xE4...ed=0CBsQ6AEwAA


Buy it at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Micro.../dp/1560222697

[Albertine]

I just picked up my first bags of Marwest products and now they are getting corporatized, bummer.

CT Guy, I've been doing both, although I don't have a microscope, so the tea aspect I am taking on faith and the idea that if you can at least get something going in a hospitable environment, the numbers will grow. I like the idea of using the most active ingredients available, though and following CC's recommendations for local material. Your kelp is up for the next bag.

[guest2012y]

Originally Posted by Albertine

I just picked up my first bags of Marwest products and now they are getting corporatized, bummer.

CT Guy, I've been doing both, although I don't have a microscope, so the tea aspect I am taking on faith and the idea that if you can at least get something going in a hospitable environment, the numbers will grow. I like the idea of using the most active ingredients available, though and following CC's recommendations for local material. Your kelp is up for the next bag.

I don't know if that's good or bad...all I know is that's the best damned compost $$$ can buy...should I roll up and get as much as possible before it turns to shit or what?
EDIT: BTW...I purchased a bag of kelp meal extract from Yelm's.....I suppose it's the same stuff eh? Should last me an eternity.

[spurr]

For those who want to use Luebke compost contact "MidWest Biosystems", there are a few other producers of Luebke compost, but MidWest is well thought of, and often has stock on hand.

I agree with MM and others, that homemade and fresh vermicompost is a great source of compost teas, better then compost I have ever purchased commercially. MM has stated his indoor vermicompost bins produce high quality ACT. I believe an outdoor vermicompost pile might be better than indoor, but I trust MM way more than myself on the optic of verimcompost/vermiculture.

MM, please correct me if I did not represent your feelings/claims correctly, thanks!

[guest2012y]

My only problem is that I don't consume enough matter or have the by-product of enough matter to continually generate the material necessary to make the amount of HIGH quality compost I NEED. I compost..it's just not enough.... so I have to buy it. I utilize all I consume....except electricity...which gets used to the full extent as possible..sorry off topic.

hey anybody read High Times.....uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh der duh uhhh ask Ed Oh wait there's a new guy now.