2,500 watts used in rented house too much? - Page 5 - Growroom Designs & Equipment - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

closetking · 05-23-2004, 01:29 PM

Funny you mention canopy penetration, I was having a discussion last week about that. Seems that the loss of penetration on the smaller bulbs requires a little imagination on growroom design.

I'm using an air cooled hood on my 1000 and I can get it real close to the top, with an effective penetration. The drop off of lumens at 2' from bulb can be dramatic, at 3' it's down right frightening. Not so bad for a shorter indica but not so good for a taller sativa. Planning, planning, this isn't such an easy hobby afterall. HAHAHAHA. What to do, what to do. I had to remind my buddy that the light loss that seems so dramatic really isn't as bad as it looks. We see the loss in the visable spectrum but I've read somewhere (OG I think) the spectrum for the plants is passed thru the leaves more effeciently than the visable spectrum.

Many folks trim the bottoms of the plant to compensate for the penetration loss. Spacing of pots/cubes and carefull trimming should be considered. I gave up on 1 sq ft/plnt. These WW can bush and spread wider than 2'. I use an 8x4 table with 15 plants and a mover. I used to try for 18 plants but they dont like to be crowded.

mybeans420 · 05-23-2004, 01:35 PM

i think that the spread of light kind of makes up for the penetration as there are two points of illumination as opposed to one. so the light gets distributed to the canopy a little more efficienty.
right now i have one 3x6 table with 19 ak 47s in 2 gal pots, 1 table with 8 morning star in 3gal pots. 1 table with 8 g13xhashplant in 3 gallon pots and 2 20 gallon scrogs each 3x3.
one is oddysey and the other is silver haze.

i've got pics of all in my gallery

05-23-2004, 01:47 PM

excellent info guys , thanks it has cleared a few things up for me , i liked the results ive seen from the 600 watt lights ive seen used .. and am often concerned bout power consumption , wonder if the same sorts of rules to that apply down under ....

closetking · 05-23-2004, 01:54 PM

I used to use 3 gal pots, but because of the quick maturity of these WW's (49-56 days) I found the root structure not fully occupying all the soil area. The smaller pots (5qt) allow for a better root mass and watering 2 days sooner than with the 3 gal. I increased my yield by about 20% when I made the change.

Seems that the plant uses too much energy trying to get the roots to fill there space and the overall amount of ferts is upped by the additional waterings.

On longer vegging and flowering plants, ie sativas, the larger pots will make sense.

mybeans420 · 05-23-2004, 02:01 PM

i go from 4" to 1gal to 3 gal, then i let them grow out a week or 2 before flowering. i have to water pretty much every other day if not everyday

wally, i'm pretty sure that it would be the same there.
first find the amps on your ballast
multiply amps by the current (120 or 220 here in the states)
this will you your total watts consumed
now divide the number of initial lumens (140000 for 1000, 90000 for a 600) by the total watts consumed to come to you lumens per watt

Aquaman2112 · 05-23-2004, 02:01 PM

Kida go agaist what I have heard about big buds need lots or room for root growth

closetking · 05-23-2004, 02:45 PM

Aquaman, I think the type of plant and how long it needs to be in the medium dictate the size of pot. Longer growing plants need to be in soil longer and will need more soil to keep nutrient depletion to a minimum and to keep the ph balance a little more stable . If the plant isn't close tp being rootbound by 12/12 it will still devote energy to producing root during 12/12, possibly diverting resourses to bud production. Roots are actually developed during darkness, 12 hrs of dark gives more time for root growth, the 1st cpl of weeks of 12/12 this is good since buds are just forming and the plant is still growing vertically, after that we just want the plant to work at buds.
I'm not sure how this works with hydro, I'm not sure if the roots can get bound in a hydro system

Aquaman2112 · 05-23-2004, 05:43 PM

Closet makes since to me! I will experiment with a couple of clones for myself I have always taken what I read on this subject to be true and never really tried the other way. Cheers M8

closetking · 05-23-2004, 08:14 PM

I also go from a 1gal up to the flower pot (pun intended), since I veg under a 430 till xplant. I let veg for another 10 days or so and go to 12/12. Used to water every 4-5 days with 3 gal now at 3-4 with the 5 qt

I've noticed a consistant trait in trying to recognize and cull those clones that look ok but turn out to be low yielders. Root mass. I clone in 8 oz. styro cups, 2 per cup. When I slice down the middle to seperate, all the root growth is to the ouside of the soil next to the cup. The clones with the heaveist outer root growth, rgardless of leaf and stem formation at that time, do the best thru the whole grow. The center of the mass is less dense.

When I examined my root balls after the grows, the "runts" had less developed outer roots, denser mass towards the stem, but had good overall development. The heavies were basically rootbound.

I explained that to the local grow shop guru and he said to use a smaller pot for my particular tomato plant with this maturity time. This speeds up the time it takes to get nearly rootbound. The 10 days from xplant to 12/12 isn't enuf time for a good headstart on rootbound in 3 gals pots.. He said root development slows when the plant gets rootbound and the plant uses its energy for bud better and it's like the soil becomes a hydro medium. I went to the 5 qt size from the 3 gal and even the poorer clones I used, yielded better than I would have expected from the 3 gal. And the high yielders did way much better, Need to factor in more frequent watering/feeding into this improvement, It all added up.

I think it's important to factor in each different strains attributes to make best use of this technique.

Aquaman2112 · 05-23-2004, 08:28 PM

True different strain do well different but what you say does make sence I guess there is a fine line when it comes to roots

05-23-2004, 01:29 PM	#41
closetking Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: usa Posts: 127	Funny you mention canopy penetration, I was having a discussion last week about that. Seems that the loss of penetration on the smaller bulbs requires a little imagination on growroom design. I'm using an air cooled hood on my 1000 and I can get it real close to the top, with an effective penetration. The drop off of lumens at 2' from bulb can be dramatic, at 3' it's down right frightening. Not so bad for a shorter indica but not so good for a taller sativa. Planning, planning, this isn't such an easy hobby afterall. HAHAHAHA. What to do, what to do. I had to remind my buddy that the light loss that seems so dramatic really isn't as bad as it looks. We see the loss in the visable spectrum but I've read somewhere (OG I think) the spectrum for the plants is passed thru the leaves more effeciently than the visable spectrum. Many folks trim the bottoms of the plant to compensate for the penetration loss. Spacing of pots/cubes and carefull trimming should be considered. I gave up on 1 sq ft/plnt. These WW can bush and spread wider than 2'. I use an 8x4 table with 15 plants and a mover. I used to try for 18 plants but they dont like to be crowded.
	Quote

05-23-2004, 01:35 PM	#42
mybeans420 resident slackass Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: somewhere that has a pool table Posts: 1,053	i think that the spread of light kind of makes up for the penetration as there are two points of illumination as opposed to one. so the light gets distributed to the canopy a little more efficienty. right now i have one 3x6 table with 19 ak 47s in 2 gal pots, 1 table with 8 morning star in 3gal pots. 1 table with 8 g13xhashplant in 3 gallon pots and 2 20 gallon scrogs each 3x3. one is oddysey and the other is silver haze. i've got pics of all in my gallery __________________ "POWER TO THE PEACEFUL" micheal franti LET LOVE GUIDE YOU LEAVE YOUR CLOWNSHOES AND YOUR NEGATIVITY AT THE DOOR PLEASE.. THANK YOU "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921 "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President. 18 Dec. 1840 PLEASE don't PM me for seeds or cuts,.. Thank you
	Quote

05-23-2004, 01:47 PM	#43
guest123 Guest Posts: n/a	excellent info guys , thanks it has cleared a few things up for me , i liked the results ive seen from the 600 watt lights ive seen used .. and am often concerned bout power consumption , wonder if the same sorts of rules to that apply down under ....
	Quote

05-23-2004, 01:54 PM	#44
closetking Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: usa Posts: 127	I used to use 3 gal pots, but because of the quick maturity of these WW's (49-56 days) I found the root structure not fully occupying all the soil area. The smaller pots (5qt) allow for a better root mass and watering 2 days sooner than with the 3 gal. I increased my yield by about 20% when I made the change. Seems that the plant uses too much energy trying to get the roots to fill there space and the overall amount of ferts is upped by the additional waterings. On longer vegging and flowering plants, ie sativas, the larger pots will make sense.
	Quote

05-23-2004, 02:01 PM	#45
mybeans420 resident slackass Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: somewhere that has a pool table Posts: 1,053	i go from 4" to 1gal to 3 gal, then i let them grow out a week or 2 before flowering. i have to water pretty much every other day if not everyday wally, i'm pretty sure that it would be the same there. first find the amps on your ballast multiply amps by the current (120 or 220 here in the states) this will you your total watts consumed now divide the number of initial lumens (140000 for 1000, 90000 for a 600) by the total watts consumed to come to you lumens per watt __________________ "POWER TO THE PEACEFUL" micheal franti LET LOVE GUIDE YOU LEAVE YOUR CLOWNSHOES AND YOUR NEGATIVITY AT THE DOOR PLEASE.. THANK YOU "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921 "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President. 18 Dec. 1840 PLEASE don't PM me for seeds or cuts,.. Thank you
	Quote

05-23-2004, 02:01 PM	#46
Aquaman2112 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE USA Posts: 676	Kida go agaist what I have heard about big buds need lots or room for root growth __________________ Give a Man a Fish and he eats today, Teach a Man to Fish and he will eat a Lifetime! Aquaman2112's Grow Giude
	Quote

05-23-2004, 02:45 PM	#47
closetking Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: usa Posts: 127	Aquaman, I think the type of plant and how long it needs to be in the medium dictate the size of pot. Longer growing plants need to be in soil longer and will need more soil to keep nutrient depletion to a minimum and to keep the ph balance a little more stable . If the plant isn't close tp being rootbound by 12/12 it will still devote energy to producing root during 12/12, possibly diverting resourses to bud production. Roots are actually developed during darkness, 12 hrs of dark gives more time for root growth, the 1st cpl of weeks of 12/12 this is good since buds are just forming and the plant is still growing vertically, after that we just want the plant to work at buds. I'm not sure how this works with hydro, I'm not sure if the roots can get bound in a hydro system
	Quote

05-23-2004, 05:43 PM	#48
Aquaman2112 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE USA Posts: 676	Closet makes since to me! I will experiment with a couple of clones for myself I have always taken what I read on this subject to be true and never really tried the other way. Cheers M8 __________________ Give a Man a Fish and he eats today, Teach a Man to Fish and he will eat a Lifetime! Aquaman2112's Grow Giude
	Quote

05-23-2004, 08:14 PM	#49
closetking Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: usa Posts: 127	I also go from a 1gal up to the flower pot (pun intended), since I veg under a 430 till xplant. I let veg for another 10 days or so and go to 12/12. Used to water every 4-5 days with 3 gal now at 3-4 with the 5 qt I've noticed a consistant trait in trying to recognize and cull those clones that look ok but turn out to be low yielders. Root mass. I clone in 8 oz. styro cups, 2 per cup. When I slice down the middle to seperate, all the root growth is to the ouside of the soil next to the cup. The clones with the heaveist outer root growth, rgardless of leaf and stem formation at that time, do the best thru the whole grow. The center of the mass is less dense. When I examined my root balls after the grows, the "runts" had less developed outer roots, denser mass towards the stem, but had good overall development. The heavies were basically rootbound. I explained that to the local grow shop guru and he said to use a smaller pot for my particular tomato plant with this maturity time. This speeds up the time it takes to get nearly rootbound. The 10 days from xplant to 12/12 isn't enuf time for a good headstart on rootbound in 3 gals pots.. He said root development slows when the plant gets rootbound and the plant uses its energy for bud better and it's like the soil becomes a hydro medium. I went to the 5 qt size from the 3 gal and even the poorer clones I used, yielded better than I would have expected from the 3 gal. And the high yielders did way much better, Need to factor in more frequent watering/feeding into this improvement, It all added up. I think it's important to factor in each different strains attributes to make best use of this technique.
	Quote

05-23-2004, 08:28 PM	#50
Aquaman2112 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SE USA Posts: 676	True different strain do well different but what you say does make sence I guess there is a fine line when it comes to roots __________________ Give a Man a Fish and he eats today, Teach a Man to Fish and he will eat a Lifetime! Aquaman2112's Grow Giude
	Quote