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How to properly mix raw neem oil and other horticultural oils

mad librettist

Active member
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I've heard and seen many discussions about which soap/emulsifier/surfactant to use with raw neem oil and other raw hoticultural oils. While I'm sure some are better than others, I wanted to share a trick that makes them all work, and might even work with no emulsifier at all. There used to be a neem oil secret thread, but now you have to read the cached version on google if you want to see it. In any case, the recipe was bad in that thread, and thanks to Clackamas Coot for correcting maryjohn's mistake.

Neem oil stirred by hand, even with equal parts dish soap, looks like this:

fab97fc4.jpg


Notice the distinct layers? The middle layer is most of the oil - in big, suffocating globs, whereas the bottom layer is mostly soap and water with a bit of emulsified neem oil. I've tried a million ways to mix it, including putting rocks in my sprayer and shaking til it hurts.


What's missing is mechanical, not chemical. Enter the blender. In my case, a hand blender. I put just a bit of water, then as much oil as I want with the right amount of soap for the final volume. Hit it with the blender and:

4c1e9145.jpg


Notice there are only two layers?

Now I top up with room temp water and:

513bc5ad.jpg


I'm sure you could do a gallon or more this way. Obviously if you are doing an orchard you want a bigger blender.
 

mad librettist

Active member
Veteran
Voilà! I would put the bulk of the water in the spray bottle, emulsify the oil in a few cups of water, and add that to the spray bottle (warm water for neem)

And the perfect emulsion allows you to spray tiny even droplets of diluted neem or other oil, instead of a lot of soap spray (which works as well for many things) and some concentrated stuff intermittently. You also don't have to worry about shaking the sprayer.
 

DARC MIND

Member
Veteran
hehe
man i just put water and neem in sprayer and shake fast for like a minute or two till it looks like the last pic. i dont think a blender is needed for a small gardener like me but thanks for the pics, good stuff!
 

mad librettist

Active member
Veteran
don't knock it til you tried it!

Is this raw neem you are spraying? Have you tried pouring it out into glass and waiting 2 minutes?
 

DARC MIND

Member
Veteran
yep raw neem and i dont know why i would pour into a glass and wait?
i do let my left over neem mix sit to catch gnats, if that counts?
and im not knocking it, just my way seems easy for me and works great
 

mad librettist

Active member
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I dunno man, I always just mix it up.

DARC, what do you use for soap? I used to do it your way too, and it does work. But the finer you can make the emulsion, the better your coverage.
 

Clackamas Coot

Active member
Veteran
hehe
man i just put water and neem in sprayer and shake fast for like a minute or two till it looks like the last pic. i dont think a blender is needed for a small gardener like me but thanks for the pics, good stuff!
DARC MIND

Dyna-Gro has a liquid silicon product called Pro-TeKt (about $15.00 per quart) which breaks up the neem oil immediately.

To make a quart you would take 1 tsp. of neem seed oil and to that add 1 tsp. of liquid silicon. Stir and it immediately emulsifies the neem oil.

Add 1 cup of warm water to get things mixed then add 3 cups of tepid water and shake briefly.

Silicon is effective against both powdery mildew and spider mites in addition to bulking up the stalk and branches of a plant.

I also add liquid silicon once a week to the water before hydrating the soil.

It's cheap & effective.

HTH

CC
 

big ballin 88

Biology over Chemistry
Veteran
I was thinking about going and buying some pro tekt, where do you get it home depot? I heard it was good stuff, and since Florida's a little hotter its supposed to help deal with heat stress. If it also works with neem oil sounds like good stuff to me.
 

Clackamas Coot

Active member
Veteran
I was thinking about going and buying some pro tekt, where do you get it home depot? I heard it was good stuff, and since Florida's a little hotter its supposed to help deal with heat stress. If it also works with neem oil sounds like good stuff to me.
big ballin 88

The entire Dyna-Gro product is loved by the orchid growers. They definitely made inroads into this hobby/industry.

Around here it's available at mainstream nurseries, indoor garden stores, etc.

Worst case scenario would be if you had to order it through Amazon but at the Dyna-Gro web they should have a list of retailers so that might be a good place to look as well.

You don't necessarily have to buy the Dyna-Gro Pro-TeKt product as there are other fine products from other companies.

HTH

CC
 

mad librettist

Active member
Veteran
that pro-tekt sounds good. If I were restocking neem oil I would get it.


until then I use the blender and plain soap.
 
Funny to see this...found this same trick out a few months ago. Ordered a Gal. of neem oil and it wouldn't mix up like the stuff you get from the store. Bought a really nice blender a while ago and decided to try it out. I also use a hot pepper oil I made with a ton of habaneros and red chilles cooked with some vegetable oil. I don't have bug problems or fungus problems on anything when I keep up with spraying. It isn't fun spraying when it's windy...it is as bad as pepper spray.
 

humble1

crazaer at overgrow 2.0
ICMag Donor
Veteran
+1 for electric hand mixers
and
+1 for silica additives as emulsifiers
and
+1 for warm water in the mix

just don't use water much warmer than 70-75 F or the constituent chemicals in neem begin to degrade......
 

Clackamas Coot

Active member
Veteran
humble1

As things turned out I discontinued using yucca extract for this specific application, i.e. I still apply yucca extract to my plants but not as an emulsifier. Liquid silicon (like Pro TeKt) breaks up the neem tree seed oil immediately/instantly.

Because of the weather patterns in the Pacific Northwest and the severe powdery mildew problems that affects everyone - not just medical growers, I have found that spraying plants with neem and silicon 2x per week keeps the powdery mildew away as well as the mites.

It's a pretty inexpensive prevention.

CC
 

mad librettist

Active member
Veteran
I wonder if pro-tekt washes away the waxy coating of many pests?

I'm ordering some to do the same test (and use on my squashes).
 

dub 6

Member
hehe
man i just put water and neem in sprayer and shake fast for like a minute or two till it looks like the last pic. i dont think a blender is needed for a small gardener like me but thanks for the pics, good stuff!

i was about to suggest, why not just shaking it???
 
T

tokinafaty420

Do you guys just apply neem oil when you detect insects or do you apply it as a preventive measure?

I probably am one of the luckiest of growers. I haven't had a single gnat, fly, or mite in my garden for the past 4 years or at least been able to detect them. I stock up on lady bugs and set about 50-100 free into the flowering room once a month.
 

Clackamas Coot

Active member
Veteran
i was about to suggest, why not just shaking it???
It's my 'opinion' and little more that if a person does not use some form of an emulsifier (horticultural soap, yucca extract, liquid silicon, whatever) the level of active ingredients will not be consistent regardless of how hard you shake it.

The viscosity of pure cold-processed neem tree seed oil (like Dyna-Gro's product) is about 25x that of motor oil - probably more.

Breaking up the oil solids (via an emulsifier) is mandatory to achieve the results that you're look for in using these types of products.

Having said that, the neem tree seed meal (what's left after the pressing of the neem oil) may be a better alternative if you don't want to use the required (again IMHO) emulsifier.

Rate of usage: 2 tsp. of kelp meal and bubble/aerate for 24 hours. Then add 1/2 cup of neem seed meal (aka neem seed cake) and aerate for another 24 hours. This is for 1 gallon of tea.

Spray and completely douche the plant. Do this for 2x per week to prevent spider mites and/or powdery mildew.

"The prevention of powdery mildew and/or spider mites is far, far easier than trying to fight an infestation" - Clackamas Coot.

YMMV but hopefully this information will be helpful.

CC
 

B. Friendly

"IBIUBU" Sayeith the Dude
Veteran
can't just shake up Einstein Oil no way. I usually heat it up in an electric water boiler/kettle at 1:1 water to oil. never tried a blender, good idea.
 

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