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Vertical tree grow/smaller more numerous plant comparison grow

TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
Some of you members have probably seen me around here before and seen some of my grows. I have not been around in a while, but recently decided to come back to see how everyone is and also learn a few new tricks. I have been growing continuously for four years now even though I took a break from ICMag about six months ago. It is nice to still see so many familiar members around and about even after my small break from the forums. Actually I have really gotten into photography lately and have been learning on those forums as much as I can absorb, but thats another topic altogether that I won't waste your time with.

Usually I grow vertical style with plants that are very large. I guess you could call it a 'vertical tree style grow' method. I have my gardens set up perpetual and even though I choose tree style with this particular strain I can still produce a crop every 2 months and usually yield seven pounds out of 4 - 1000 watt HPS with a total of about 18 to 20 plants.

What I want to do as an experiment is still maintain my vertical grow system, but grow with aprox. 30 plants under the same amount of light. My reason for this is that it is beginning to be a pain to tie up almost every bud so that they don't get burned up by the lights in the later stages of bud development. It is so much extra work and I am wondering if I do more numerous plants but have them half the size when triggered that they can support the bud weight themselves there-by reducing the amount of work it takes to tie up all those octopus arms and also maintaining the same yield amounts. I don't expect the production time to change as I use a simple two stage perpetual system and don't plan on changing it anytime soon.

The reason I have been so stuck in my ways is because this method I have been using for so long has produced so well and I figured why mess with something that is not broken? Now that I can afford to experiment I want to see if I can accomplish the same yields with much less work.

So this thread will be a log of my next grow so that I can compare the differences from tree style to smaller plants with this perticular strain of AK47 I have been using. The benefit of using the same strain will give me a better idea which system is more efficient and also I know this plant like the back of my hand. It is the best producing plant I have grown that maintains A grade quality and taste along with excellent bag appeal. I have yet to find a better specimen and I have been though literally hundreds of strains with absolutely nothing that even comes close in quality along with yield. I have found some killer strains but they always seem to yield very small.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to explain my purpose for this thread and I hope some of you will find it interesting. If it helps out some of you all the better! I'll post some pic's of the clones that have been planted in Promix a week ago tomorrow night. See ya all then!

TGT
 
maryj315

maryj315

Member
tngreen said:
im in. good to have ya back TGT, cant wait to watch and learn :lurk:
Click to expand...

You mean watch learn and be reminded of how much my grow skills are pretty lame compared to his yes i cant wait :muahaha:

I have 2000 watts i would like to achieve 3 lbs a grow without having a shit load of plants so i will be watching for sure
 
johnipedestran

johnipedestran

1%
Veteran
TGT
I too grow tree style under/around 1400 watts. and it is a pain in the arse to tie em up.

i usually use four stakes in the pot, and tie from there. but I also turn my plants almost everyday.

one suggestion I have thought of but never tried would be a tomatoe cage like structure around the plant.

peace
jip
 
TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
Sorry for the delay, It has been a pretty hectic week to say the least. I took some pictures last night of a garden that I started last night to chop down. Only removed an eigth of what was there, but it's a good start. These were tree style and a real pain in the butt to tie up the last four weeks. I'll post them, but first I wanted to respond to John.

johnipedestran said:
TGT
I too grow tree style under/around 1400 watts. and it is a pain in the arse to tie em up.

i usually use four stakes in the pot, and tie from there. but I also turn my plants almost everyday.

one suggestion I have thought of but never tried would be a tomatoe cage like structure around the plant.

peace
jip
Click to expand...

I feel your pain in trying to keep the octopus arms away from the light. I too thought of using a tomatoe cage if not to do anything but prevent a fire. I am always so worried the plants will tip into the light when I am not there. Even though I worry and am very thorough when I tie them up sometimes I still get the odd occasion where I come in and the tip of a bud is resting on the light brown and dead. Not yet has it caused a fire (thanks god) and it makes me wonder if the bulbs are even hot enough. I think the tomatoe cage is a great idea, but hopefully if I change my grow type I won't have to worry about this anymore.

You say you rotate your plants. I use to do this, but I find it is a hastle and sometimes impossible with large plants because you have to tie them up to their surroundings to make them utilize the light most efficiently. I have actually found in the past not rotating them produces bigger buds and slighly larger yield. When you rotate them it usually distributes the light more evenly, but causes more small pop corn buds to form as apose to long well developed cola's. When in one position for a long time it seems the concentrated light on each bud produces less buds in total, but with them being much larger over all. This I have found cuts down on work trimming while increasing yield slightly. It is possible the outcome would be different with other strains. This is what I have experienced with mine and a few other large producing strains.

Below I have posted some pictures of the crop I just started to harvest. This is the previous grow and hopefully the last 'tree grow' at this location. I will be using this room for the new 'smaller plant grow' so this room will have to be cleaned out before I can move the new clones into the room. The babies for this next grow are at another location and I took pictures of them also - I'll post them after these next shots. Also, the following pictures are not the entire amount. I trimmed for about six hours before taking these pictures, so there is a considerable amount taken from the garden. I should have taken pictures before to show it unspoiled, but I didn't think about it before it was too late. I seem to do that quite often lol.













This next picture is from what I trimmed last night before taking the pictures above. Took me 6 hours to do all that - not too bad I must say without any help lol.



TGT
 
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Dr Dog

Dr Dog

Sharks have a week dedicated to me
Veteran
OUch 6 hours

My back is finding it harder and harder to crop now a days. I have even taken to tossing some of the smaller buds, as it is too labor intensive trimming them up for the amount they supply.

I like to grow not trees, but I would say bushes, I like multiple tops but nothing above 4 feet, too hard keeping canopy in line. But I am looking forward to seeing how things change in your room
 
TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
This next picture is of the new clones also taken last night that will be occupying this room as soon as it is harvested and cleaned. They have been in veg under this small 400 watt HPS for a week or so since rooting. I will veg them under a 1000 watt MH in the next few days for one to two weeks so that they are about 2 feet tall not including the pot and them place them in the room to bud. Obviously they will be transplanted into bigger pots when the switch is made. I am hoping this to be the perfect height to trigger. I usually use 18 to 20 plants under 4 - 1000 watt HPS. This time I will be using the same amount of light and about 30 to 35 plants. Will see the exact number needed when they get placed in the room and veg a little more. I always have more than I need so this should not be a problem.



The next picture is what I am trying to avoid. This is a crop that is growing right now and the pictures were also taken last night. This is at a seperate location and they were vegged much too long. Actually much longer than I usually do for reasons that were out of our controll. It was either bud these large plants or start over with new clones. We added 1 more 1000 watt HPS to compensate for the size. I think they are about three weeks into bud so the stretch has stopped, but unfortunately they are already touching the ceiling and the largest are about 7 feet tall! Talk about huge for indoor plants lol.



TGT
 
Dr Dog

Dr Dog

Sharks have a week dedicated to me
Veteran
14882IMG_012.jpg


Great shot man, not the most convenient, but it looks like a great place to sit in the shade and read a book
 
TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
Ya, and it is easy to water with there being so much room underneith the canopy. I use to suffer from depression in the winter months, but since I started growing it doesn't happen anymore. I think it is the light that brightens my moods because since I started growing regularily, I am as happy as can be! And I do just sit under there sometimes for quite a while just admiring the plants. I have even layed down underneith on the floor looking up and when I close my eyes it is as though I am relaxing on a beach lol. All I need now is sand for the full effect.

TGT
 
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B

Bigtimer7

Got to be the POST OF THE MONTH right there ^

Im sure im not the only one laying back dreamin right now ;)

Great job +++
 
FrankRizzo

FrankRizzo

Listen to me jerky
Yeah, I hate it when the ladies get too big and I have to start tying them up. :muahaha:

I wish I had the problems you do. It's kind of funny to read this since I was just reading a thread started by someone that thought mj was a really hard plant to grow. I guess everyone has their own set of problems. I think I would prefer to have yours though.

In all seriousness I'm interested in how this is going to turn out.

In those pics with the ladies that are taking up the whole room whats with the ballasts on the ground? :bashhead: :spank:
 
TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
FrankRizzo, they have been on the floor since we set up the room five months ago. I know it is time to put them up on the shelves or better yet place them in the next room. I have been so busy lately managing my family life and taking care of three gardens all by myself that I can't find time to do much. The good thing is I have water plates that I can put under the pots when I have to water more and the water comes out the bottom. That way I don't have to worry about the floor becoming wet with power cordes all over the place. Fortunately the other two gardens are set up perfectly and nothing has to be done. This one still needs the carbon scrubber hung from the ceiling. Right now it sits on the floor but still works well. Probably up top it will work a little more efficiently. Also, I need to still make a door. The door right now is B&W polly that I have too tape closed everytime I leave the room.

Below is a picture of the cooling system I use for this garden (this is not the room I will be using for my 'smaller plant' grow). It is a 12,000 BTU portable air conditioner and unbelievably it cools the room perfectly even with using 5 - 1000 watt HPS with the bulbs hoodless. In the middle of summer my hottest temperatures were only 80 degree's and now I don't think it is even needed now that winter is here. I still use it for dehumidifying along with a 60 pint dehumidifier. With plants this large humidity can really become a problem.







TGT
 
Last edited:
C21H30O2

C21H30O2

I have ridden the mighty sandworm.
Veteran
TGT said:
Some of you members have probably seen me around here before and seen some of my grows. I have not been around in a while, but recently decided to come back to see how everyone is and also learn a few new tricks. I have been growing continuously for four years now even though I took a break from ICMag about six months ago. It is nice to still see so many familiar members around and about even after my small break from the forums. Actually I have really gotten into photography lately and have been learning on those forums as much as I can absorb, but thats another topic altogether that I won't waste your time with.

Usually I grow vertical style with plants that are very large. I guess you could call it a 'vertical tree style grow' method. I have my gardens set up perpetual and even though I choose tree style with this particular strain I can still produce a crop every 2 months and usually yield seven pounds out of 4 - 1000 watt HPS with a total of about 18 to 20 plants.

What I want to do as an experiment is still maintain my vertical grow system, but grow with aprox. 30 plants under the same amount of light. My reason for this is that it is beginning to be a pain to tie up almost every bud so that they don't get burned up by the lights in the later stages of bud development. It is so much extra work and I am wondering if I do more numerous plants but have them half the size when triggered that they can support the bud weight themselves there-by reducing the amount of work it takes to tie up all those octopus arms and also maintaining the same yield amounts. I don't expect the production time to change as I use a simple two stage perpetual system and don't plan on changing it anytime soon.

The reason I have been so stuck in my ways is because this method I have been using for so long has produced so well and I figured why mess with something that is not broken? Now that I can afford to experiment I want to see if I can accomplish the same yields with much less work.

So this thread will be a log of my next grow so that I can compare the differences from tree style to smaller plants with this perticular strain of AK47 I have been using. The benefit of using the same strain will give me a better idea which system is more efficient and also I know this plant like the back of my hand. It is the best producing plant I have grown that maintains A grade quality and taste along with excellent bag appeal. I have yet to find a better specimen and I have been though literally hundreds of strains with absolutely nothing that even comes close in quality along with yield. I have found some killer strains but they always seem to yield very small.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to explain my purpose for this thread and I hope some of you will find it interesting. If it helps out some of you all the better! I'll post some pic's of the clones that have been planted in Promix a week ago tomorrow night. See ya all then!

TGT
Click to expand...
why not just put a wire cage around the bulbs at a distance that you know will prevent burning. problem solved let em grow natural and free.
i see your trying something new though very cool. how long did you veg them when you grew them big and how long are you vegging them now.
 
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TGT

TGT

Tom 'Green' Thumb
Veteran
C21H30O2 said:
why not just put a wire cage around the bulbs at a distance that you know will prevent burning. problem solved let em grow natural and free.
i see your trying something new though very cool. how long did you veg them when you grew them big and how long are you vegging them now.
Click to expand...

I have thought about it before but the main reason I have not done it is because if I let the plants grow against the cage it will shade the other cola's. I like to have the freedom to move them any way I like to maximize light use and if pressed against a cage it will be very hard to minipulate them. I usually like to tie them to the ceiling, but I quess I could still use a cage to stop the plants from burning and still using the ceiling to tie - half the idea. I hope that made sense.

Usually I veg them for about 5 weeks and that is why they get so large. The ones you see in the pictures above with the plants filling the room was not unpurpose and I think they were vegged for six weeks, may be even 7. I am going to only veg for around 3 weeks, but we will see how well they grow before making my final decision. What I do know is they will be much smaller so they can support themselves and also make better use of the 3.5 gallon buckets I am using. Around 30 to 35 plants would be perfect, but like I said I'll play it by ear (or sight).

TGT
 
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