No Bone Meal in Tea......Myth or Fact?

In my never ending quest to stay as far away from any hydro store as humanly possible, I've always had trouble locating a liquid organic source of phosphorus. I've used bat guanos with great success and while they are preferred, they are also very hard to purchase locally, are expensive and require a three hour drive to Worms Way. I know i can always Mail Order, but being the D.I.Y punk i am, i said "self, F.uck The man, make your own damn bone meal tea." And so it went.

At first, after reading on here about it, the common knowledge was that no animal byproducts should go into teas. It made sense at first, but i'm one to question. I started looking around and realized there was bone meal in quite a few other liquid nutrients. Mother Earth Tea as well as Age Old Organics contains bone meal and Meta Naturals makes a liquid bone meal. This gave me a bit of inspiration and i started to experiment.

My first attempt went O.K. My basic vegetative teas start off in about a thirty gallon trash bin.
I add:
8-10 two handed scoops of Alfalfa Meal
1/2-3/4 cup of Fish Emulsion
1 cup of MaxiCrop
1 heaping shovel of garden compost
1 heaping shovel of horse manure.
1 cup of Molasses

This mix gets bubbled for 3 days and then is ready for use by diluting 1 cup to a gallon or stronger depending on feeding habits of plant.

I started by adding 1/3 cup of bone meal and letting it bubble for 36 hours. It seemed to do alright, but i could still see a bit of bone meal mixed in with the bit of sand at the bottom of the trash bin. I began tweaking by letting the mix bubble a day to get the microbes multiplying before adding the bone meal. I let it bubble an extra day, and then added the bone meal. I couldn't see any bonemeal at the bottom this time.

Jumping ahead, my Tea now is made like this.
All ingredients the same. Let bubble for 24 hours. Add 1/2 to 2 cups bone meal and stir really good. Continue letting it bubble but stir it every twelve hours. After 3 days, add another cup of molasses. Continue to let bubble for four more days. Stir every twelve hours. After a week, it should be ready to use. No rotting meat smell, just the barnyard funk, just what an alfalfa tea SHOULD smell like.

This has worked great for me. I've used it this past year on everything i own and have seen nothing but great growth and flowers everywhere. I would like to hear anyone else's experience with adding bone meal to tea....GOOD OR BAD. Its all about sharing info. Well, thought i might share my experience and hopefully i've inspired someone. F.U.C.K T.H.E M.A.N.

You would have to bubble and constantly stir the bone meal for at least two weeks before it became available to the plants. Why don't you simply mix it into your soil mix?
As far as not using animal byproducts in teas, that's false. Dried blood makes great tea.
Burn1

I've got some friends who work with the Rodale Institute creating teas/slurries, and from what I understand, using blood and bone to make tea (especially if it's anaerobic) is a big NO-NO! ...you can breed massive amounts of nasty microbes from letting cow blood and bones sit in water...They like to eat rotting blood and bone in low oxygen environments - Need you know more?

I did it once a while back, but they aren't great sources to make tea from anyway. Most of the blood will dissolve if you let it sit for a while, but it will stink like the most putrid smelling roadkill you've ever smelled. Also, the blood will produce tons of ammonia as it breaks down, which will make some very nasty, toxic stuff if you don't evaporate it all out before using it. Exact same story with making a "bone tea", except you'll have a lot less of the material being dissolved into the water...Bone needs the soil bacteria and fungi to break it down to usable compounds.

I'd say forget using blood and bone all together unless you are using it outdoors in the soil, with ample time before planting for it to break down. They are very great, inexpensive sources of nitrogen and phosphorus, but they're only really any good if you're using them outside, in the soil ecosystem, with ample ventilation.

You could use some kind of plant extract for your phosphorus instead of guano. Also, kelp extracts work miracles for flowering...There is just about every element you can think of that a plant will need in kelp, not to mention plant hormones/growth regulators....Cytokinins (and auxins I think). If you want supreme flavor and smell, use kelp. It's not high phosphorus, but it is high potassium, which is good for flowering too, not to mention the trace elements - Can't hurt to add some into your mix....Microbes will eat it right up.

Look into veggie teas...Plant extracts....That type of thing. Also, chicken manures can contain good ratios in regards to phosphorus, and you can make tea with it very easily - and it's *cheap* *cheap* *cheap*!

Stay away from animal parts when making tea - It's dangerous.

BurnOne said:

You would have to bubble and constantly stir the bone meal for at least two weeks before it became available to the plants. Why don't you simply mix it into your soil mix?
As far as not using animal byproducts in teas, that's false. Dried blood makes great tea.
Burn1

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Where did you learn that it takes 2 weeks before bone meal would be available?

There are lots of plants you can grow yourself which contain phosphorous. Try including some Dandelion, Chamomile, or Yarrow. Growing comfrey would also be extremely beneficial for both the soil its growing in and the tea you can make out of fresh cofrey.

Pyrogen: So, it's dangerous to let the bone meal brew in your teas, but it's fine to pour that tea into an even LOWER oxygen enviroment (grow medium) with which there is bone meal sitting???

How can something be dangerous in your tea, and not feed the same microbial bacteria in your grow medium?

In your medium the bone meal has had the time to break down naturally. Easy, I believe post 3 gives you the answers. The soil beasties break down the bone meal.

Interesting...

So by bubbling it with microbes bone meal breaks down in the liquid?

I'm going to experiment. I've often soaked bone meal in my feeding mix but never bubbled.

Nice thread.

EasyBakeIndica -

Soil is generally more balanced as far as aerobic vs. anaerobic microbes go when compared to a compost tea..

STAGNANT WATER, even if being aerated with a bubbler, can create a nice home for anaerobes (nasties). Stagnant conditions will allow nasties to grow, because aerobic bacteria will start to die off, just becoming more food for the things that can handle the environment.

If you place anaerobes into aerobic conditions (top soil), the aerobic microbes do not give them a chance to colonize - They either get destroyed/eaten, or they stay dormant.

AND FURTHER MORE!

Nasties are nasties because they have the ability to live in places with no oxygen - Ex: In your lungs.

Obviously, it depends largly on what the microbe is, and how your body would react to it trying to make a home - It could fight the microbe off, or not.

For example, Klebsiella pneumoniae - The most common cause of pneumonial bacteria infection - is an anaerobe that likes to live in the lungs, and it's very, very common...Found in soil, but only dormant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klebsiella_pneumoniae

Interesting...


I would think any liquid would be suspect?

I'm wondering if there is a safe zone when doing the bone in a bubbler thing.

well folks i think the way to do this is not with bubbling buckets but rather get yer self some EM and fement the bone meal using em then put in bubbling water or soil tea. this is all therory but it seems very well it could work.

Hmm, well I have an extensive background in hydroponics, with experience in every kind of medium and style ith hydroponics.

If you can keep you reservoir temps at about 68 degrees F and have a high level of DO in your water, you are almost guaranteed to not have any "nasties", as they've been referred to. If your aerating your teas properly, keeping them at a good temp, and not killing the fungi/bacteria, then it is highly unlikely you will be breeding anaerobic bacteria.

Anaerobic:

1. (of an organism or tissue) living in the absence of air or free oxygen.
2. pertaining to or caused by the absence of oxygen.

Click to expand...

I asked BurnOne about it taking 2 weeks to break bone meal down, because I believe that there is not set amount of time it takes to break materials down. Really the determining factors are the size of the particles being broken down and the population of those microbes that those particles will be broken down. Bacteria are single cell organisms, so it takes many of them to break down materials; however, if you feed them a sufficient amount of food and have them concentrate on the material (in this case bone meal) I believe it would take less then 7 days.

Probably the ideal way to do this is to create a bacterial culture tea, as Johnny has done for the first 24 hours, and then add bone meal and not make the tea complex; allow them microbes to feed mostly on the bone meal.

This is all my humble opinion, please don't take it has fact; these are my observations and logically mind at work. Thank you.

BurnOne said:

You would have to bubble and constantly stir the bone meal for at least two weeks before it became available to the plants. Why don't you simply mix it into your soil mix?
As far as not using animal byproducts in teas, that's false. Dried blood makes great tea.
Burn1

Click to expand...

Hey Burn1, Thank for stopping by. You definitely know the organics more than I, so i do respect your opinion. My tea is stirred more than twice a day. This was just a suggested stirring for those who don't have alot of free time. I'm handicapped and have all day to play with my plants and teas, so they get stirred alot. I also run two small air pumps that keep the water quite vigorously mixed.

I also add bonemeal to my soil mix as well as to my compost pile. I was just searching for an organic LIQUID AVAILABLE phosphorus source. I usually would use PureBlend Pro, but that is strictly mail order or the three hour drive.

Pyrogen said:

I've got some friends who work with the Rodale Institute creating teas/slurries, and from what I understand, using blood and bone to make tea (especially if it's anaerobic) is a big NO-NO! ...you can breed massive amounts of nasty microbes from letting cow blood and bones sit in water...They like to eat rotting blood and bone in low oxygen environments - Need you know more?

I did it once a while back, but they aren't great sources to make tea from anyway. Most of the blood will dissolve if you let it sit for a while, but it will stink like the most putrid smelling roadkill you've ever smelled. Also, the blood will produce tons of ammonia as it breaks down, which will make some very nasty, toxic stuff if you don't evaporate it all out before using it. Exact same story with making a "bone tea", except you'll have a lot less of the material being dissolved into the water...Bone needs the soil bacteria and fungi to break it down to usable compounds.

I'd say forget using blood and bone all together unless you are using it outdoors in the soil, with ample time before planting for it to break down. They are very great, inexpensive sources of nitrogen and phosphorus, but they're only really any good if you're using them outside, in the soil ecosystem, with ample ventilation.

You could use some kind of plant extract for your phosphorus instead of guano. Also, kelp extracts work miracles for flowering...There is just about every element you can think of that a plant will need in kelp, not to mention plant hormones/growth regulators....Cytokinins (and auxins I think). If you want supreme flavor and smell, use kelp. It's not high phosphorus, but it is high potassium, which is good for flowering too, not to mention the trace elements - Can't hurt to add some into your mix....Microbes will eat it right up.

Look into veggie teas...Plant extracts....That type of thing. Also, chicken manures can contain good ratios in regards to phosphorus, and you can make tea with it very easily - and it's *cheap* *cheap* *cheap*!

Stay away from animal parts when making tea - It's dangerous.

Click to expand...

Pyrogen, I understand your friends thinking and it was what i always thought as well. But what about the commercial blend ferts with bone meal as an ingredient? It has to get in there someway and it must be relatively safe. Right?? My mix couldn't be more aerated and it is done in a separate building with a/c set at 78..... I've taken precautions as i could see them.

Also, i use a shovel full of REAL composted horse manure, not some sanitary bagged crap as well as my homemade garden compost. If there aren't as many or more microbes after feeding on alfalfa, fish, and molasses for a few days, i'd drink my tea.

Its funny you'd mention kelp. While i think it's the answer to any problem in the garden (almost) it definitely isn't a good flowering Fert. Just you mentioning it as such is a little suspect.....as any i've bought contain
NO PHOSPHOROUS........and if you read my mix you would see its already in there.

Chicken manure is a damn good additive, but i can only get Black Hen, and i'm not to sure as to the contents of it. I'm not an organic Nazi but i do like to know what goes in. Also, it adds a bit to much other nutrients that could make my tea the wrong ratio that i'm looking for. Bone meal is good because i can really control the ratios with it. If i want an all around tea, id use Black Hen and a lot less of the bone meal. My whole point of this is to be able to make a flowering tea as well as a vegetative tea.

Thank you everyone for looking at my thread. I'm still gonna keep an open mind and if presented some good facts against using it i surely won't use it.

My fertilizers and teas always stay under 70. Plenty of reasons for that.

Like I've said in previous posts, I'm still using soil that's been recycled 5-6 times over. What signs should it be showing from feeding it all that nasty bone meal/molasses tea?

Even then, couldn't hydrogen peroxide help insure there's too much oxygen for anything nasty to thrive? All you need to do is break down the bone meal.

I'm not arguing. I'm just stubborn. Like Johnny, I too love the cheap, abundance of organic bones in my area.

ebi

JR,
This is excellent info! Thanks for sharing! I've been wracking my brain for a while trying to figure out how to get bone meal into a solution due to the fact as stated earlier that it is a readily available cheap source of organic phosphorus. It seems as though you have been successful at getting it digested/composted as the bone meal is not settling out after the microbes munch on it. The phosphorus is more than likely already in a form that is usable by the plants. I think as someone mentioned by keeping the initial particle size of the BM small in an aerobic environment w/ agitation (i.e. bubbling) helps to facilitate the breakdown of BM into a usable water soluble form. I wonder if this is how the product Liquid Bone Meal is made? Curious. Thanks again for sharing the info.

there is so much info. on this topic; I wonder if it is safer 2 trust scientific facts or old school tried and true farming? I, being very new 2 this whole organic farming want the best of both safe high quality resinous bud that is safe 2 ingest as well as max. yeild. I am experimenting with the bone meal added 2 my soil. included in my soil mix worm casings, kelp, peat, promix( with myc's ), hydrated lime,worms, and 2kinds of guanos ( seabird and powdered budswell), and pure humus. I let this mixture ferment 4 4weeks and just watered 2 keep moist not wet; then finally added epsom salt in wk.5. I put my girls in this mixture and soo far so good they r a beautiful shade of dark green at d-9 and the foilage is has no sign of nute lock with vigorous gowth. i will keep u bros posted its my second go around i will post pics soon. any thoughts on my mixture and if anyone has some suggestions please feel free i am here 2 learn thanx.

how could i 4get perlite and urea were added initially; i added the perlite until the texture of the soil was easy 2 run my hands through but firm enuff 2 stay 2gether in a ball when u squeeze it in your palm and break up easy.

hhhmmmm...

hhhmmmm...

Isn't most bone meal steamed? would that not kill any harmfull nasties in it? And about particle size,some folk think organics are slow, this is not true, the smaller or more broke down the things are the quicker they can be used by the microherd and in some cases by the plant itself.So if bonemeal doesn't want ta break down in yer tea or soil (quickly),break it down first by smashin it with somethin like a rolling pin,a brick,a hammer lol you get the idea.Think about it, when ya use a tea on a plant you see the results from it in jus a day er two,hows that fer fast...It's all about how broke down it is before ya give it to the soil/plant.Good thread Johnny! Take care...BC

B.C, Hey bro. Thanks for stopping in. I definitely agree with you about particle size. I've used a few different kinds and have found one that seems pretty good when it comes to particle size. It is almost powder with a bit being larger sand sized particles. I tried screening them out but the kitchen strainer i had let most particles fall through. I could smash them up.....a rolling pin would definitely work. These big particles don't really get digested.....next time ill smash em all up.

I've been thinking about lowering the temperature next time i brew some tea up. My AC wont get it down below 75 so i'm gonna freeze a few 20 oz. bottles of water and add them as necessary. I'm also gonna wear my gas mask next time I'm in there with the tea brewing. I use it whenever i use the dry bone meal, chitin nemocite, or perlite. I didn't really think about how much air I'm pushing through this tea and how many particles could be in the tea. Safety first kids.

I'm still learning when it comes to the tea and i've been thinking about leaving out half of the alfalfa and half of the Fish to reduce nitrogen for late flowering. My next tea will be like this and i will post my results. I'd still love to hear from anyone that has experimented with this. Could i leave out all the fish or should i leave it in?