New Forum Needed?

maxe · Mar 11, 2007

To make it short:

I'm interested in organic growing but I think we need another forum for biodynamic? growing..... don't really know the difference between organic, ecological and biodynamic terms but I want to grow with:

No shit! guano, manure, urine etc.....earthworm shit is ok :wink:

No nasty stuff scraped off a slaughterhouse floor! blood meal, bone meal etc..... anything made from animals is NOT organic! (not the sense I put in the word at least)

I'll make my own experiments with this 'code of growing' over the next 4-6 months...

-peace

Guest · Mar 11, 2007

I don't mean to sound like an ass but, I'm not sure if you stated something or asked. Your words sound as if you are not sure what you are talking about. As far as organic goes there is at least 1 "vegan" fert, 'Emerald Shaman' by AN. I don't think a forum based on your interpretation of organic is really very bandwidth efficient.

I am willing to admit that perhaps there are more "vegan" growers than I assume to be, so maybe I am wrong on this.

J.

maxe · Mar 11, 2007

I stated an area of growing I would like to explore further - what I don't know is if that method already has a name - I suppose it will be close to 'biodynamic' but I don't know what that word covers...

Another thing I forgot to mention is: No premade stuff! - I'm not dissing premade organic fertilizers, that's just not what I want.
A part of what I like about growing cannabis is the mad-scientist-experimental feeling - I'm sure a lot of growers can relate to this and I think this feeling has driven many growers into hydro systems... I want to get that aspect as much as possible in organic soil + I'm sure it has discovered or undiscovered benefits to grow this way.

Shouldn't really matter if there are 5 or 500 ppl frequenting such a forum should it?

Guest · Mar 11, 2007

Biodynamic would most likely be the use of Rhizobaterias, Mycorrhizaes, beneficial insect, composting and things like this. All of these are incorporated into many orgainic grows already as importan factors.
I must agree alot of the fun is finding out what works for you; if you are against the use of protein based (animals wastes) organics then perhaps composting is what you need to do. Start a compost bin and you can add whatever you like.
As far as a sepperate forum goes ...........I'm not a Mod or anything like that but most all of use the things you would be but we also use the animal wastes.

J.

jojajico · Mar 11, 2007

maxe said:
To make it short:

I'm interested in organic growing but I think we need another forum for biodynamic? growing..... don't really know the difference between organic, ecological and biodynamic terms but I want to grow with:

No shit! guano, manure, urine etc.....earthworm shit is ok :wink:

No nasty stuff scraped off a slaughterhouse floor! blood meal, bone meal etc..... anything made from animals is NOT organic! (not the sense I put in the word at least)

I'll make my own experiments with this 'code of growing' over the next 4-6 months...

-peace

i can understand not wanting to use the animal parts if you are an animal lover but i dont think animals are abused for their shit.... i could be wrong but i think as an animal lover its safe to use. lol vegan soil growing.... what about worm casting... thats animal shit too will u not want to use that?

smokeymacpot · Mar 11, 2007

forum = organic soil
it fits what you want to do, so i cant see a need for a new forum.

i do however think your soft for saying you dont want to use manure. it IS organic, just like animal blood is organic.
you wont find plants around a dead animal saying "no thnx i dont want all those lovely organic nutrients from the dead animal" lol

whats your reason for wanting to grow with no manure or animal matter ?

maxe · Mar 11, 2007

the No shit! part is actually also because I don't want my growroom to smell of it. I'm not a vegetarian :wink:

Other than that I'm sure it's better fertilizing with plants cause they have a lot of other nice things in them than just the NPK.

smokeymacpot > this thread wasn't meant as a personal attack on you - relax..

smokeymacpot · Mar 11, 2007

oh man, if you think your growroom will smell of poo then your wrong.

you can quite easily create your own organic compost heap full of leaves, veg peelings grass cuttings e.t.c and mix the manure into it, then say 6months to a year later it will be ready.

you generally wouldnt use manure straight away.

my advice is to buy organic compost (grow bags from homebase for £1) and organic fertilisers. as its easier, less hassle and already composted.

i see no personal attack, dont worry

Relik · Mar 11, 2007

Maybe a sticky on Biodynamics could be interesting, things are starting to move again in the forum, I guess if we stay patient we can achieve this. I know the subject has been brought a few times here, as well as permaculture.

I remember there was a post about vegan organics a few weeks earlier, can't remember much about it but you can search it.

Guanos may smell, I guess, but I've never used them, as they're unavailable here. But I here only good results, plus they're fast acting, sounds great for some P boost in early-mid flower, for example.

No premade stuff, I'm OK with that, but I do buy liquid kelp, for example, because that way I don't need to get kelp on the beach, rinse it and liquify it when I need it.

Stuff from the slaughterhouse work great and are included in the most famous soil mixes you can find here... I'd stick with them unless someone has the motivation and time to experiment with other stuff to get a working recipe. Sadly, I don't have the time actually.

My definition of organic is anything that is life-derived. In other terms, carbon-based molecules. Exceptions are mineral components (ie. dolomite lime) but I'm OK with that, as long as they are necessary to balance the system we're building.

If I keep on typing I'm gonna be late for university, I'll get back to you guys soon. :joint:

Peace

maxe · Mar 11, 2007

smokeymacpot > the thing is that I want to mainly rely on the watering/spray instead of the medium. Sure a compost is nice - I'm not a fanatic, if I were to grow outdoors I would just pre-fertilize the ground with the horse/chicken/sheep manure I have here homemade hehe ... I said what I want, so I think I'll skip on your advice of the opposite

Relik > Hehe sure.. I will probably use stuff like kelp also unless I can find the same contents in something in a 100 yard radius. I will try to use whatever I have around...or testing it... and I don't mind mineral components

I have the motivation and the time.. but I don't have any high tech measuring equipment so it will be on trial and hopefully-not-too-many-errors.

Part of the reason I made this thread is that the organic forum is a bit messy, would be nice to share info, tea recipes etc. easily if there are others with the same growing style/wishes - not because I want to stand out or anything... just don't want to read thru 40 threads with blood meal first f.ex.... just a few stickies maybe...

green_grow · Mar 11, 2007

since i switched this current grow to 12/12 i have been feeding them a 10% urine solution . they seem to like it. i have read a thread where the grower used urine as his ONLY source of nutrients, right from the start. interesting stuff.

maxe · Mar 11, 2007

urine only sticky?

hmm not for me but I would follow ppls experiments hehe

JackTheGrower · Mar 11, 2007

I think we need a solid foundation of the term "Organic Soil growing."

I think I have not only the right reference but I may well introduce you to someone we can take note of.

"An organic farm, properly speaking, is not one that uses certain methods and substances and avoids others; it is a farm whose structure is formed in imitation of the structure of a natural system that has the integrity, the independence and the benign dependence of an organism

" Wendell Berry, "

The Gift of Good Land"

-------------

Biodynamic? it's a part of the soil web IMO..

I'm a deciple of a living soil system.

Our Model is the Natural.

Then it's the system that we are about and as such we are already biodynamic minded.

----

Large soil beds work best IMO. More room for the microherd to work as well as a large root area.

So what do we think of letting Wendell Berry's quote be the foundation of Organic Soil Growing ?

smokeymacpot · Mar 12, 2007

green_grow said:
since i switched this current grow to 12/12 i have been feeding them a 10% urine solution . they seem to like it. i have read a thread where the grower used urine as his ONLY source of nutrients, right from the start. interesting stuff.

thats gotta smell ??

Guest · Mar 12, 2007

maxe, you don't have to amend your soil with ferts; you can also use them as teas. Many of the growers here in Organic use both amended soil and foliar ferting with a tea having a base utilizing guano, castings, etc..
Really the only stink is in the concentrated forms, once diluted the smell is cut dramatically and combined with good air circulation it's not the poop smell you'll need to worry about.

BioDynamics = A method of organic gardening and crop cultivation in which certain factors, such as planetary and seasonal cycles, are considered.

Organic = Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms; Involving organisms or the products of their life processes.

Is the above what you mean; growing using the phases of the moon and so on?

J.

Guest · Mar 12, 2007

no shit then wtf do u use why no shit that is rediculous no lab made chemical extracts is all that needs to be extracted form the soil and organic soil catagories i mean no shit in soil is like dick with no balls it just aint right unless u are a house cat or a child molester so i dont understand ur pont never will shit is what makes the plant so good and smell u have never ever been around an organic grow before if u think it smells
you will becovering up the smell of stank plant with shit that is about it
peace and thanks for the entertainment organic growing woth no shit haha fucking ha

maxe · Mar 12, 2007

Pyrex > hehe no I will not be counting in the lunar cycle in an indoor grow...but it sounds interesting... I will however try to draw knowledge from other areas than botany.

jimbob > you need some courtesy in your life bro...

JackTheGrower · Mar 12, 2007

^^^^^

Look Verbal composting in action... How Biodynamic.

A moderator would be nice.

JackTheGrower · Mar 12, 2007

I never went deep with it but the Farmers Almanac may be a good resource for study.

And I was pointing out jimbob's post not yours.

maxe · Mar 12, 2007

Jack > yeh it might be a idea to read up on it, I tried reading some biodynamics pages but they seem to focus a lot on compost and don't really share any tea recipes - can also see they sometimes fertilize with plants that contain hormones which might be growth inhibiting so I guess I'll have to find something else.

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