growroom design help needed

haitran412 · Jan 18, 2007

this is my first time setting up a real grow room 8x8x10, and advise is much needed.
im gonna use..
4 1000 watt with air cooled reflector
multiflow ebb & flow hydro system with 3 1/2 gallon buckets with 55 gallon drums
i want go with the can carbon filter for the odor, but dont know which size or is there something better? Is a water chiller necessery? AC is a must what btu? co2 with Air-3 Atmospheric Controller with photosensor operates exhaust and intake fans, i know that Co2 shouldnt be on while the room is getting vented, when venting how many times a day or how many minutes per hour should i vent or should i even vent, and is it okay to have the intake fan going at the same time? I am trying to find out when to vent and have intake air coming in the room and when to release C02, i want to acheive the perfect growing enviroment. Any input or suggestion would be greatful. thank you

MTF-Sandman · Jan 18, 2007

Personally I like sealed rooms for CO2. It's a lot more stable environment if you get the correct equipment.

Depending on your climate, you could get away with a 12-15Kbtu AC if you're in a cooler area but if the temps get too hot around your area you'll probably need an 18-21Kbtu AC. That should give you enough extra cooling so that you don't have to fight to keep the temps in check in mid summer. I would setup the lights on a dedicated intake/exhaust and just let the fan(s) cooling the hoods run while the lights are on to help keep the temps down.

For a sealed setup odor control is also much easier to take care of. A small scrubber/fan recirculating the room air or a puck style odor killer should work fine.

In a sealed room the CO2 controller will also make sure that the PPMs stay in the optimal range during lights on...and disable CO2 while the lights are off.

You will need a dehumidifier most likely tho...especially for after the lights turn off and the AC stops running...

haitran412 · Jan 18, 2007

hey sandman, so you are saying i can set up my grow room without venting/intaking air from and to the room? Except for the air cooled lights. sorry if this question falls into the dump category as you prolly can tell i'm a newbie. thanks

MTF-Sandman · Jan 18, 2007

Yeah...just use a dedicated intake from outside the room and exhaust the air from the hoods out of the room. You'll need to make sure that your hoods & ducting are air tight, but that's easy with foil backed tape.

Just use the AC to control the temps during the day, and set the dehumidifier to keep the RH% down to the 40-50% range.

The biggest hassle in setting up a sealed room is adequate cooling...after that, there's nothing to it and you don't have the security risks of a vented setup.

nUt_jOb · Jan 18, 2007

well at least you are a newbie who is aiming high.. its better than a newbie who wants to grow lbs of weed under a couple shop lights

The latest and greatest thing to growing is a "sealed room" which means no incoming and outgoing air (other than possibly air cooled lights). This is acomplished by completely controlling the growing invironment. A/C for temps, CO2 tank or burner to add CO2, dehumidifier to remove excess moisture, and that about does it. Not too hard to imagine just hard to get all dialed in correctly. This is the "perfect" environment you seek.

Q - want go with the can carbon filter for the odor, but dont know which size or is there something better?

A - Get the largest one you can afford. If its for a sealed room then it doesnt have to be as big but the total lbs. of carbon really determine the lifespan of the filter so the more the marrier even in a sealed room.

Q - Is a water chiller necessery?
No.

AC is a must what btu?
Already answered

The rest of that stuff is N/A if you go sealed room. Check out that new George Cervanes grow video.. I know its not a sealed room but its a great vid.

haitran412 · Jan 18, 2007

thanks for the input guys, greatly appreciated

lemonblazer · Jan 18, 2007

Umm hey guys...I'm glad I saw this thread cause I'm curious about sealed rooms....the only thing I don't understand is if people who have sealed rooms use an a/c year round...Wouldn't it be strange to some ppl that you have an a/c running in the fall...or the spring...i mean I guess if your venting the lights outside the room you can shut the a/c off for the winter but I mean still...with the effect of global warming we even have some "hot" days in the winter.....I mean like in the 70's......so how exactly do you hide that fact to your neighbors that your a/c is on in october?

nUt_jOb · Jan 18, 2007

That is why many growers prefer watercooled A/C units since they run indoors and there is no loud A/C running in the middle of winter outdoors.

MTF-Sandman · Jan 18, 2007

lemonblazer said:
......so how exactly do you hide that fact to your neighbors that your a/c is on in october?

There's alot of window units that have a heating function on em...and that's all you have to say if anyone asks.

Smaller setups probably won't require the AC to be running tho during the cooler months...with a well setup light cooling system, you can direct the output from the lights to help heat the rest of the house during winter and make a simple duct rerouting once the temps get warm enough to just dump the heat into the attic for late spring/summer/early fall.

Guest · Jan 18, 2007

My sealed setup is very close to what you are about to do 8 by 8 with 3 1K vertizontals.Sandman covered the majority of it,a dehumidifier is an absolute must to run during the dark hours.I wouldnt vent any air,with a good co2 system and controller,you'll keep a steady PPM the entire times the lights are on.Keeping the PPMs from fluctuating is the key,I set my controller to 1500 PPM if it drops to 1450 it kicks the generator on.You can use the dehumid water also,its excellent.I get a little over 2 gallons in the 12 hours the lights are off.I have a 12000 BTU window AC ,3000BTU for each fixture.My fixtures are not aircooled either.For odor control I really like the vaportek optimum 4000,it works fine for me.Maybe not as effective as carbon but good enough.Like it was said before most larger window units have a heat function also,I run mine 24/7 365 days a year.You want higher temps when using co2 enrichment also,around 85 degrees at the canopy is perfect.Expect to use more food.They will grow much faster and finish sooner,the difference is noticable if you've grown without co2 enrichment.

lemonblazer · Jan 18, 2007

thanks nut job.....ANYONE know what the prices are like for these things?....Do I need to dedicate a line to power one of these things?....I read that these water cooled units actually use less electricity...is this true?.....

I must say without a doubt the hardest part of setting up one of these larger grow rooms is electricity...and cooling it down year round...damn wish i was an electrician....

lemonblazer · Jan 18, 2007

ballastman said:
They will grow much faster and finish sooner,the difference is noticable if you've grown without co2 enrichment.

Hey ballast man....Did you notice any drop in trichome production or potency with your faster flowering time?

Oh and do you suggest that I go for the co2 from a burner or a gas tank?.....I just happen to have a co2 tank around (don't ask)...so I figured I would just give it a go to see if it was worth it....but would a burner be more efficient?

And can I asked how you dealt with your power issues?? Looks like your setup is pulling alotta juice there

nUt_jOb · Jan 18, 2007

I can field some of these questions.

Prices for watercooled A/C units can be found all over the internet. You can find one that is the voltage and capacity that you need. Concider looking at "marine air conditioners" as they are water cooled and more typical.

Burners are more efficient by far if you can handle the heat. If your temps are barely in spec now then I would def reccomend injecting via a tank untill you can get control on temps.

As far as electrical goes.. STAY SAFE! Bigger grow ops like we are discussing require someone with some adaquate electrical skill to complete. I have seen it done as easily as guys who run those big beefy extension cords to other rooms in their house (different circuits) under carpet or through walls and often up into the attick and back down into the grow area. I am not reccomending this as it can be a fire hazard and is not optimum but it is the way some choose to do it.

They will then balance out the loads in their grow rooms between circuts and attempt to not exceed 80% of rated capacity for the circuits. My personal reccomendation is that ventilation and A/C as well as all essential loads (like water pumps) be on their very own dedicated circuit that is far from capacity.

Guest · Jan 18, 2007

I'm an electrician lol,lucky me hehe.I use a burner, a green air cd-6 to be exact.I just picked my most recent blockhead harvest,I've been perpetually growing this strain for close to 3 years now and I swear to god this is absolutely the strongest erb I've grown in the 6 or 7 yewars I've been growing inside.No,it improves trich production if anything,and knocks a week of finishing time.Its important to get a controller,I just used the generator on a cyclestat for a couple years and didnt see results like this.This is because the controller is keeping a steady PPM.I used to OD my plants in the morning.I had no idea when the lights come on I'm at 2500PPM!Thats when my generator used to kick in giving it even more co2.Instead of spending a hundred on a cyclestat,spend 500 and get a cap PPM3 or better controller,your plants will thank you

haitran412 · Jan 18, 2007

hey ballast man you have stated, "I set my controller to 1500 PPM if it drops to 1450 it kicks the generator on". I want the same setup , So can you tell me what i need to buy to achieve that and also can u give me a idea of how much the whole co2 setup is going to cost? No matter what i am still going to get it, just want to have a ruff estimate before i head to they hydro store. thanks

lemonblazer · Jan 18, 2007

Thanks for all the info guys......I think I'm convinced now...A sealed room sounds great....except...I still gotta deal with the electric issue....Any suggestions on electricity for a 5000 watt grow?

MTF-Sandman · Jan 19, 2007

lemonblazer said:
....Any suggestions on electricity for a 5000 watt grow?

30a/240v running off 10/3 wire will take care of the lights...if you need more juice for an AC or dehumidifier, go with a 50a/240v circuit running on 6/3 wire.

If you're planning on running them at 120v you'll need a subpanel in the room, but that's easy enough to do by just buying a small circuit breaker panel (rated for at least 50a) from the local home improvement store.

lemonblazer · Jan 19, 2007

MTF-Sandman said:
30a/240v running off 10/3 wire will take care of the lights...if you need more juice for an AC or dehumidifier, go with a 50a/240v circuit running on 6/3 wire.

If you're planning on running them at 120v you'll need a subpanel in the room, but that's easy enough to do by just buying a small circuit breaker panel (rated for at least 50a) from the local home improvement store.

Thank you MTF....I'm in the US so 120v...it is...I think I understand....the only thing is I thought the max you could get on one "line" from a panel was 20amps (15 being the norm)....but your saying I can go up to 50 or more on one line :woohoo:

......did I understand you right?

MTF-Sandman · Jan 19, 2007

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you're very familiar with wiring...you may want to have this circuit professionally installed.

Most home wiring is done on 15a or 20a 120v circuits...for a 30a or 50a circuit, you're going to need to install a new breaker, a new run of wire, and either a T104 timer (if you change the ballasts over to 240v) or a subpanel if you want to run 120v devices.

It's not hard to do, but it does require a certain level of understanding to do it safely.

If you want to do the work yourself, I'd highly suggest getting a home wiring book from HD or Lowes and doing a little reading first...it'll make it ALOT easier on you.

lemonblazer · Jan 19, 2007

Thanks MTF.....chances are I would have someone do it....But I at least want to understand what I'm telling them to do...I will probably read one of those books anyway though....If it seems reasonable I'll give it a run but I doubt it....I rather be as safe as possible....Your right I don't know anything about wiring...I always counted on the sun til now...Who knows...might just wait til the summer and go all silverback....damn wish they had a gorilla icon...

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