The S1 Showcase

Morphote · Nov 7, 2011

I'm looking to compile scientific evidence either supporting or condemning selfed seeds. I've read some say they are the genetic equivalent of an F2 or F3. Does anyone know the answer? I've seen S1s that perform like F1s. I've seen where some think they are bad and some say they are good. Do we have a definitive answer or is the answer that it's all strain dependent? What is your experience with S1s and how do you feel about them? Should they not be sold, and if not then why? Should we breed using them as P1s or is that a terrible idea? As part of this, I encourage everyone to post any and all S1 pics that support your opinions.

Here is my S1 as a seedling:

The strain is Dark Vader [Hindu Kush x (Hindu Kush x Afghan)]:

...and the plant is so amazing I'm revegging it.

All opinions and perspectives are welcome.

M.

Iron_Lion · Nov 7, 2011

MummyCat · Nov 7, 2011

Regardless of how they perform, they're a gene pool destroyer.

cheesey · Nov 7, 2011

my s1 of the whites is the top class . better yeild , more taste ,more smell and the best thing stronger buzz . Lets hope the s2s are like there mom .....

Iron_Lion · Nov 7, 2011

(. )( .)
U
~~~

MummyCat · Nov 7, 2011

negative rep? really? Because you like them and I have a fundamental reason for disliking them? Isn't that what the thread is about? Whoever did that is a total dickface

cheesey · Nov 7, 2011

MummyCat said:
Regardless of how they perform, they're a gene pool destroyer.

MummyCat said:
negative rep? really? Because you like them and I have a fundamental reason for disliking them? Isn't that what the thread is about? Whoever did that is a total dickface

can you tell us more about s1s being a gene pool destroyer? and what is your fundamental reason for disliking them as you are a noob and only found out what a BX was a 3 months ago how do you know so much about s1s ...........

MummyCat · Nov 7, 2011

cross anything to an S1 and it becomes female no? That's my reason.

cheesey · Nov 7, 2011

MummyCat said:
cross anything to an S1 and it becomes female no? That's my reason.

think you need to research dude .
IF u cross a male to a s1 the seeds will be males and fems .

lost in a sea · Nov 7, 2011

s1's are extremely useful for many people without elites cuts or the time to search through loads of seeds,, or the room to sex males,,

if all the breeders started selfing everything and stopped producing any regular beans then there would arguably be damage to the gene pool but as it stands they have caused no harm,, imo anyway,,

sallyforthDeleted member 75382 · Nov 7, 2011

Breeder's make S1's all the time for desirable traits, then cross it with males, make more selections etc till they finally make a strain.

MummyCat · Nov 7, 2011

cheesey said:
think you need to research dude .
IF u cross a male to a s1 the seeds will be males and fems .

If that's the case, then I got bad info. I was under the impression that an S1 could only be XX or YY and that crossing an XY to either would make a XX or YY

I apologize. You're right, I'm a "noob" thanks for being such a nice guy

GP73LPC · Nov 7, 2011

lost in a sea said:
s1's are extremely useful for many people without elites cuts or the time to search through loads of seeds,, or the room to sex males,,

if all the breeders started selfing everything and stopped producing any regular beans then there would arguably be damage to the gene pool but as it stands they have caused no harm,, imo anyway,,

well said... :tiphat:

VerdantGreen · Nov 7, 2011

Iron_Lion said:
.......
I think BXing and "IBLing" do more to muddy things up, when they take a clone only, do a BX or 2 then try to sell it as an exact replica of the original clone when in reality you still have a possibility of the male genetics used in the original outcross popping back up even generations later.

I look at CC's OG's and I still see influences from his afghan male he used in the outcross, where as an OG S1 looks like OG and further crossing doesnt bring out any unwanted characteristics of the male.

exactly, selfing is a perfectly good breeding tool and if you want to get an elite cut in seed form then its probably the best thing to try first off. the results depend upon how true-breeding the clone is, but often it can throw up phenos even better than the original.

also some people have perfectly good reasons for wanting guaranteed females like if they are growing outdoors or have limited space of plant numbers. try growing a few plants all spring and summer to a huge size - only to find out they're males - then try and get on your high horse about fem seeds.

unfortunately its one of those topics that people like to talk shit about becuase thay feel it is safe or 'proper' to sneer at fems - but apparently 90% of seed demand is for fems these days, you cant argue with that!

im not saying that there is no valid points against fems but as part of a varied set of breeding methods its a valuable technique.

VG

GP73LPC · Nov 7, 2011

VerdantGreen said:
im not saying that there is no valid points against fems but as part of a varied set of breeding methods its a valuable technique.

VG

what are the valid points against S1's?

i'm curious, i cannot logically see how it effects the gene pool...

Lung.Butter · Nov 7, 2011

For all day. Been buying up s1's recently, white, starbud, cheese, etc. Had some good results in the past, better than most seeds i buy anyway.

You guys think s1's would lose a bit of vigour?

lost in a sea · Nov 7, 2011

s1's shouldnt lack any vigour really,,, shouldnt imagine it would get any extra hybrid vigour though selfed to itself,,

valid points against for me would include how some companies use fems,,, like GHS just thieving gene pools and producing their crappy unnecessary versions,, then if people breed with this crap and call it white widow or ssh or chemdog or cheese it annoys me because i know the gene pool used has been bastardised,,, but thats really just GHS and a few other dutch companies like dutch passion giving the technique(and genes) a bad name,,

in my opinion if over used, you move more towards being a seed producer than a breeder,, but thats no problem there is room for everyone whilst people are still happy to store away regular seeds and veg up males,,, i worried at one point years ago that loads of over excited noobs would flood everywhere with elite s1 crosses or something and everyone would give up on bothering with males,, but even if it did if stopped caring about the possiblity because i have most things in regular form that i'd want to use males of anyway now,,, :canabis:

LouDog420 · Nov 7, 2011

I'm not too concerned with S1s affecting the gene pool... As long as I have the option to buy both, I'm a happy camper...

What does upset me a bit about S1s is those breeders selling selfed beans for big bucks and calling it their own 'breeding' work. It is very possible the plant does not breed true, and the S1s can be very different than the parent. I'd much rather see crosses with two different female clone onlys, rather than crossing a clone back to itself, as that is inbreeding to an extreme and often not representative of the line

Testing helps this loads too, but is often overlooked more often than not :tiphat:

For backing up genes, I'm all for it if that's the route you want to go. It's quick and an easy way to get that clone represented somewhere in a seed line, even if it doesn't breed true, you're likely to get a similar pheno somewhere in there, just not good for backing up an entire seedline

VerdantGreen · Nov 7, 2011

yeah i think the gene pool argument is rubbish - its no worse for the gene pool than crossing crosses together and making multi hybrids that stretch in a ridiculous fashion

but even then you can get a gem now and again.

people, if you have something with genetics you feel should be preserved - then effin' preserve them yourselves. grow some out, as many as you can. keep all the males (cut them and keep a branch in water to collect pollen if you have to) pollinate all the females. pass some seeds around, keep some in the freezer. your genetics are preserved!
making S1's isnt the best way to start a 'line', but to get a seed version of a clone only and pheno hunt thereafter i'm all for it.
dont rely on others to do the work for you and start bleating about their methods - if somethings worth doing then DO IT YOURSELF!

VG

Mt Toaker · Nov 7, 2011

I grew WW for 2 years straight by selfing it a couple times. Every plant was as good as the first and was true through and through. The only issue I had later down the road was it was very sensitive to hermi and you had to make sure not to keep it too long in flower. Now that line is gone, there are a couple of the WW x AK47 around still and another cross with those seeds I should be getting soon. I'm hoping to find something nice. Its interesting seeing what a journey that seed line has taken on its own. Grown and traded by many people, not many but a few and its all been good from what people have said. The cross coming to me is the ww x ak47 as the mother and the father was strawberry cough x sweet tooth #4. Pretty amped for those seeds.

Anyways I'm stone. The S1's are great for keeping something around but remember that you can make that line more sensitive to hermi if you keep breeding it to itself multiple generations.

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