PH UP

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #1

I always add PH UP to water first before my res, but still notice the solution cloudy for a min. or two.

Is there a better way to add PH UP or increase the PH in my res without clouding the water or causing a nutrient lockout....

I would assume the cloud I see is nutrient lockup and is ultimately not good??? That was a question.....

Or is it a sign it's time for a new res and start with fresh water?

 

J

jungliedunglies

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #2

You using Ca(OH)2 for up?

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #3

No, maybe that's my problem... I'm using PH UP from Mad Farmer. It's Potassium carbonite, Potassium hydroxide, and potassium silica.

Is it the potassium that's locking up and clouding the water?

When mixing a new res I've always added potassium silica first and don't have this problem. Do they make other PH UP?

 

J

jungliedunglies

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #4

Hmm interesting...this is a TOTAL GUESS on my part. Maybe it'll get the ball rolling here though.

I know for instance that calcium hydroxide in solution can react with atmospheric carbon dioxide to form calcium carbonate which is insoluble. This can sometimes lead to a cloudy appearance.

I'm wondering if Ca ions in your soup are reacting with the CO3 from the KCO3 to form a cloudy precipitate.

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #5

No I'm using a mixture potassium carbonate, potassium hydroxide, and potassium silica from Mad Farmer.

So it's the potassium locking up !

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #6

Where or how do you get Ca(OH)2 ?

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #7

Ca + H20 stirred not shaken

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #8

Interesting theory... If i add 30ml PH UP / 5gal I don't notice the cloudiness.

but if I add 30ml PH UP / 1 QT I really notice it !!

 

Choc

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #9

i always use Silicon to up my PH...

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #10

Silicon is really Potassium silica. I was told not to use silica all the way through flower because of taste and started using more PH UP when needed.

How many people use potassium silica all the way through flower?

 

J

jungliedunglies

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #11

Don't get me wrong bro, I'm not telling you what to do, or to switch to, or anything of the sort....only trying to understand/help you understand the chemistry of what you are seeing.

Potassium carbonate is soluble in water to the best of my knowledge, hence when it is added you get K(2+) and CO3(2-). CaCO3 is insoluble in water, and what I am suggesting is that you add KCO3 to the mix, it ionizes, then for whatever reason the CO3(2-) ions interact with the Ca(2+) ions (maybe hard water?) to produce a cloudy preciptate. My theory falls apart, cuz I have no answer for why the cloudiness diappears if that's the case. Don't think I'm right with the specific element involved in this case, but think it's something along those general lines in terms of principle.

What you are theorizing may well be correct, but I can immediately think of no chemical justification for it...not saying there isn't one out there.

Many, many things are possible in the chemical world, and I am half convinced that when people mix and match nutrients and additives which have not been tested too well together, there is a risk of initiating unintended chemical reactions.

Mostly I'm just stirring the scientific pot a little in hopes of pissing someone off enough that they jump in here, tell you I'm full of shit, and then give you the answer that helps you succeed Cheers!

 

J

jungliedunglies

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #12

LittleAmsterdam said:

Interesting theory... If i add 30ml PH UP / 5gal I don't notice the cloudiness.

but if I add 30ml PH UP / 1 QT I really notice it !!

Click to expand...

Sorry dude, but Jesus Christ, that is an all day shit ton of up to add to 1 quart of water...I'm not at all shocked it's cloudy after that.

Sounds more like a saturation deal if we're talking those kind of quatities, or just a time for the reaction to occur...........aka after a couple minutes everything works it's way into solution.

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #13

I guess I keep my res too full and don't allow room for expansion. The only reason I'm adding a quart is because I don't have room for the full 5gal.

Maybe I should try 30ml / 1gal....

 

J

jungliedunglies

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #14

OK....I'll admit it...ya hooked me here now that we're throwing numbers around.

BUT..man dudeman, I think more importantly than any of this speculation now is exactly WTF is your pH doing when you add that much base??? It's gotta be pretty far up there.

Once again, not saying you're doing anything wrong because I don't know your system, but for a COMPARISON....a single DROP, which is approximately 1/16 of an mL, is enough to make giant swings in a gallon of my water provided there isn't a bunch of other dissolved solute in there (aka haven't added nutes yet).

 

LittleAmsterdam

Member

• Oct 20, 2011

• #15

So how much would you need for a big reservoir? Maybe I'm using a lot because 50% is locking up.

I'll try less with more water !

 

G

Guest 18340

• Oct 20, 2011

• #16

Nothing is being locked out. The momentary cloudiness is normal and dissipates once the ph up is mixed in.
Obviously the more ph up you add the more cloudiness you'll have, but still it will dissipate once it's mixed in.
I run a 50 gal rez and always see cloudiness when I add ph up. I use a small (160gph) pump sitting at the bottom of my rez. When I add anything I plug in the pump for a few minutes to mix things nicely.

 

Last edited: Oct 21, 2011