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OMRI certification = Organic???

R

rckymtnthuglife

Member
Well, I read a post in another thread that is now closed and someone posted up that just because something is OMRI certified doesn't mean its organic.

I have yet to pick up a bottle or bag with this certification and found it to contain anything but organic ingredients. What gives?

If you have examples of things that are not organic with this certification, do us all a service and list them.

Thanks alot,

Rocky
 
C

CC_2U

From the OMRI web site:

Why is OMRI not USDA accredited as an organic certifier?

Answer:

OMRI is unique. Although we are a certifier, we are not an organic food/fiber/feed certifier. Therefore, we are not eligible for accreditation by the USDA. Instead, OMRI has recently achieved ISO accreditation. The audit and accreditation was coincidentally done by the USDA (actually the Audit, Review and Compliance Division). USDA auditors confirmed that OMRI solely uses the National Organic Program Rule.

However, while ineligible for USDA organic certifier accreditation, the National Organic Program has recently acknowledged our vital role. A March 5, 2008 memo published on the NOP website explains this to the accredited certifiers and the public.
Click to expand...

Again - that's from the OMRI web site. Pretty clear.

CC
 
303hydro

303hydro

senior primate of the 303 cornbread mafia
Veteran
CCU, I think your misunderstanding your own post. All that says is that they don't review food or validate it as organic. Of course they don't. OMRI review materials for Organic PRODUCTION and PROCESSING. This would mean nutrients. IMO they are pretty legit in the whole scope of industry standards.....
 
C

CC_2U

Nutrients fall under the USDA NOP term 'organic food production' and this term includes the post harvesting of fresh commodities - water baths (chlorine is widely used in bagged salad mixes for example), hydro-cooling methods, et al.

I can't imagine an organic certification paradigm where soil amendments (nutrients if that's a better term) are not a major component of that certification process. Oregon Tilth certification takes 5 years moving from conventional to transitional to organic certification as the producer moves from chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, etc.

I'm not up on CCOF and their regulations/certification processes but I'm sure it has many of the same processes and hoops that have to be jumped through.

USDA NOP lays out the big picture - certifiers like CCOF (California Certified Organic Farmers), Oregon Tilth, OCIA (Organic Crop Improvement Association), OTA (Organic Trade Association), the Organic Farming Research Foundation, Demeter-USA (the Biodynamic Farming certification group) have submitted their respective requests and have been granted 'certifier status' under the big umbrella of USDA NOP.

OMRI's value is open to debate and discussion but what there is no question that they cannot and do not certify anything. They are, by their own definition, a 'clearing house' from the work of registered certifiers.

HTH

CC
 
pearlemae

pearlemae

May your race always be in your favor
Veteran
ORMI also certifies the equipment that organic food are prepared on. Organic food producing equipment have to be separated from the non organic food equipment.
 
C

CC_2U

pearlemae

Under Oregon Tilth's rules the soil mixers at Sun Gro Horticulture south of Portland have to be cleaned with steam, dried and then the materials for their organic product lines can be loaded to be mixed.

Even the soil mixing process is regulated with specific rules outlined.

CC
 
R

rckymtnthuglife

Member
No, it doesn't seem pretty clear to me...maybe I'm dumb. Sounds like a whole lot of mumbo jumbo to me.

One thing I would understand is a specific example of an OMRI certified product that is not organic. All I need is one product thats it.

That label for me has always been the lazy way of knowing if something is good to go or not. I have double and triple checked all ingredients that go into my grow and take Organic growing seriously.

Like I mentioned before can you give me an example???
 
Hammerhead

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I as told OMRI is a company that certifies pesticides and fungicides that are safe to use in a Organic grow under there guidlines as being safe. Thats all I know about them.
 
C

CC_2U

rckymtnthuglife said:
One thing I would understand is a specific example of an OMRI certified product that is not organic. All I need is one product thats it.

Like I mentioned before can you give me an example???
Click to expand...

BioBizz Bio Grow is OMRI listed but is not certified organic or even certified as 'approved for organic food production' by any registered certifier.

This product is also banned by the Oregon Department of Agriculture.

CC
 
303hydro

303hydro

senior primate of the 303 cornbread mafia
Veteran
Good call CC. Pulling foot out of my mouth as we speak. What's interesting is that I could not find that product on the OMRI website.

Only these.... "
The OMRI Products List data was updated 05/09/2011.
Alg-A-Mic™
Coco-Mix®
Root Juice™
Top Max™ "

http://www.omri.org/simple-opl-search/results/bio-bizz


I started just checking other products that have OMRI on the label and for example found AZAMAZ has a current listing but GREEN CURE doesn't even though it has OMRI label. Strange.... I'm gonna look into that ..

There are organic products out there that don't have listings but the labeling in this whole industry is f***ed at best. Unless the bat shits directly in your bucket you are taking a risk. There are probably 100 guanos listed on that oregon website that are banned and that may just be due to a small company not being able to cover the cost of getting the certifications. Apparently for some big companies it's cheaper just to pay a fine and label it incorrectly.... . Some products don't even contain anything close to what the label says from what I have heard...such as half of AN
 
C

CC_2U

303hydro

GreenCure (potassium bicarbonate & a surfactant which is probably yucca root powder) does not have to be certified as it's a mineral as defined by USDA.

Most all of the mineral amendments 'approved for organic food production' do not require certification. These would include mineral amendments like glacial rock dust, limestone, dolomite lime, sulfate of potash, Azomite, gypsum and the list goes on and on.

All of these were approved years and years ago. If you found a huge limestone deposit on your property and you wanted to sell it as limestone you would have to have the deposit assayed but that would be all you'd be required to do and you could now sell your limestone as being a source 'approved for organic food production'

In the case of minerals it would be impossible to certify a piece of rock as organic.

Also certification by an approved certifier is not a huge amount of money. It is if you decide to have your product 'listed' by OMRI. They charge for each and every product and the cost involved is determined by your gross revenues, IOW Fox Farms would have to pay far more for an OMRI listing whereas a product that you might develop and want to market would cost far less for such a listing.

HTH

CC
 
R

rckymtnthuglife

Member
Sorry ya had to take the bait man. CC 2U, after reading a couple of posts of yours, I realize now that you are the infamous Clackamas Coot.

CC- ya definetly know your shit man. I used to have a website from the state of OR that listed a shit ton of ferts and whether or not they were organic and if the NPK matched what it said on the bottle. Anyway you can post that up man??

The only thing I really use out of the bottle is Drammatics 2-5-1 fish fertilizer.

I was checking out Roots Organics new line of guanos recently and the fuckers actually add urea to it...how fucked is that.

Roots has some great products but if you follow their master feeding schedule your dumping a whole lot of chemicals on your shit... a buddy of mine did this and thought he was organic.

Hey Clack was that you or Jay Kush with the lavender "trick" for mites....badass!
 
C

CC_2U

JayKush is the Lavender guy for sure.

An amazing miticide for chump-change.

CC

P.S. - I'll find the ODA page you're talking about. Since the semi-public battle between Advanced Nutrients and the director of the Oregon Department of Agriculture as blown open the pages at their web site are being updated several times a month. If Mike keeps shooting his mouth off the availability of his product line is going to be down to about 2 or 3 bottles. He's already set a record in the number of products 'de-listed' as the term goes. LMAO
 
R

rckymtnthuglife

Member
Sounds like he was gonna post it up for us. You can go to the Oregon Department of Ag website...but if I remember right it was a bit of a pain to find.

I wouldn't buy a damn thing from AN and its a shame that Rosenthal put his face on the cover of their catalogue.

Very few people in this world you can trust especially with the organic shit...CC and JayKush are a couple that come to mind....Suby is probably around here somewhere too.

Thanks Again for keepin me honest.

Rocky
 
Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
As I recall in the thread discussion, wherein we were introduced to my 'now good friend Matt Rize-UP' it was revealed that there are non-organic sources of micro-nutrients permited in OMRI listed products but it is spelled out on the OMRI site. As I recall it involved veganic growing techniques using Bio-canna(?). One can easily be led astray by having faith that all OMRI listed products are organic.

Oh the mighty Coot and Jay, watch out for Swami K is going to blow you away! :>
 
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