0% success rate in cloning.

mtbazz · Jul 23, 2010

In my old location, I usually had about an 80% rate of success with cloning in rockwool. For three years straight I maintained an 80% success rate.

In my new location, my success rate is now less than 10%.

Ive tried multiple methods including rockwool, perlite and soil mixture, and even letting cuttings sit in water on a window sill that gets moderate light (changing the water every day). None seem to work.

I currently have 12 cuttings (sour lifesaver, bog bubble, and PPP), sitting in rockwool in a humidity dome. They are 1 week old, and almost all are leaning over, wilted and looking dead.

Ive searched, looked at the stickies, and followed the tried and true methods for taking cuttings, but nothing is working.

Im open to suggestions...my next step is to invest in an ezcloner, but they are expensive, and from what Ive read they are not foolproof either, but Im at my wits end.

Japanfreakier · Jul 23, 2010

You can make an aero-cloner for about $50 and while they aren't 100% the strike zone is much wider.
For about $20 you can make a bubble cloner as well.

someotherguy · Jul 23, 2010

high man, if you do a thread search for 'FreezerBoy'
you will find he has a thread where he compiled all
the best threads representing all the different methods
of cloning, sorry i don't have the link for you.

anyway, i used to use rockwool just as you do now,
i went through similar troubles until i built myself a
bubble cloner which served me well until i discovered
my current, wick style method that is so simple, cheap
and easy it's almost foolproof.

anyway, here is a link to the original thread where i
learned this method and put my bubbler away for
ever, lol. (almost 2 yrs now with almost 100% success)

World class cloner new at walmart

...and here's a few pics of some i let go for 14 days,
just to show the root system you get with this method.

anyway, i hope this helps man.

peace, SOG

btw, if you decide to do this you'll have to get a bag
of vermiculite, an ice-tube-tray and a cheap fishtank
thermometer, total cost about $10.00 - $12.00.

PoopyTeaBags · Jul 23, 2010

get coco take cut dip cut in root gel. water coco with water and a liquid cloning solution... Keep moist should have 100% success

stealthnstoned · Jul 23, 2010

ok so im broke as fuck and i had to clone. I used what i had in my place and ghetto rigged some random stuff. I get pretty good rates usually 100% but my last set i think i cloned bad parts and only got 1 / 6.. but i was kinda expecting it...

I take my clones off very new shoots where the stem is still soft.. i seem to get way better rates doing this than taking lignified stems ( i think thats teh word. when it gets hard and woody ) Anyways heres the method.

I take a beer cup or a tupper ware container and some saran wrap. I use peat pellets that cost me like .10 each or sommething. I soak the peat pellet in warm tap water for like 15 minutes.. then i take a tooth pick and make sure the hole is good and clear. Then i take my cuttings ( very very small like 1 - 2 inch cuttings ) hahaha. the i dip in rooting gel some random brand from the local nursery... i cut at a 45 degree angle.. i make sure theres very few leaves left. maybe just the top 2 fan leves ( smlal ones ) and the new growth. then i put it in the peatpellet.. squeeze the top of the pellet a bit to seal around the stem.. If i put it in a beer cup i cover it with saran wrap. If i put it in the tupper ware i usualyl just put another tupperware on top of it and duct tape them together. Then i just leave in a slightly unlit corner of my veg chamber. I usually get roots in about 6 days and fully rooted in 7 or 8 .... like i said usually 100% from this when i take good cuttings. when i dont get roots its usually ones i already guessed i woudlnt cuz i just was tryin to get more clones and took a bad cutting ? I donon. i dont have good luck taking big clones or clones off older shoots.

old toby · Jul 23, 2010

imo cloning doesnt work in the summer! ok,, just not as well. water temps really make a differance. i bilt a power cloner, its 100% in the winter. i just shut it down. water temp 95 deg f. ask the hydro dudes,, the pump heats the water. ill have to build a really small chiller for the cloner!! im going to try some kind of soil cloning method next, :comfort:

FreezerBoy · Jul 23, 2010

CLONERS- a collection of various methods

There are too many ways to go than to stick with one that doesn't work. FWIW, "my" bubbler is in post 11.

Sounds to me like overly humid, stale conditions. If you want to give yours one more try, I'd try soaking each stem in cloning solution for 1 minute prior to gel and cube. Keep cuts short and well trimmed of leaves. Get water temps in the 75º F ± 5º range and get some bubbles in the water. If water level is low, use flat air stones as pedestals and set the starter cubes directly on top of them.

Bud Bug · Jul 23, 2010

mtbazz said:
In my old location, I usually had about an 80% rate of success with cloning in rockwool. For three years straight I maintained an 80% success rate.

In my new location, my success rate is now less than 10%.

Ive tried multiple methods including rockwool, perlite and soil mixture, and even letting cuttings sit in water on a window sill that gets moderate light (changing the water every day). None seem to work.

I currently have 12 cuttings (sour lifesaver, bog bubble, and PPP), sitting in rockwool in a humidity dome. They are 1 week old, and almost all are leaning over, wilted and looking dead.

Ive searched, looked at the stickies, and followed the tried and true methods for taking cuttings, but nothing is working.

Im open to suggestions...my next step is to invest in an ezcloner, but they are expensive, and from what Ive read they are not foolproof either, but Im at my wits end.

Did you adjust the ph of the rockwool before you put in the cuttings? Straight out of the bag rw (Grodan) is ph 8, you need to soak in ph 5.5 solution to buffer it to neutral.

Are you getting brown spots at the base of the rw/stem?

etinarcadiaego · Jul 23, 2010

mtbazz said:
In my old location, I usually had about an 80% rate of success with cloning in rockwool. For three years straight I maintained an 80% success rate.

In my new location, my success rate is now less than 10%.

Ive tried multiple methods including rockwool, perlite and soil mixture, and even letting cuttings sit in water on a window sill that gets moderate light (changing the water every day). None seem to work.

I currently have 12 cuttings (sour lifesaver, bog bubble, and PPP), sitting in rockwool in a humidity dome. They are 1 week old, and almost all are leaning over, wilted and looking dead.

Ive searched, looked at the stickies, and followed the tried and true methods for taking cuttings, but nothing is working.

Im open to suggestions...my next step is to invest in an ezcloner, but they are expensive, and from what Ive read they are not foolproof either, but Im at my wits end.

that sucks man, i'm sorry to hear about your luck.

on the bright side you've come to the right place and have already gotten a lot of helpful advice . . .

MY cloning kit cost me about $20, I clone into a standard 7" Mondo Humidity dome, and I use Peat pellets for cloning (the kind you can get from WalMart), thus far I've had 100% success. I don't use heat pads, or anything, just ambient room light, peat pellets, and a humidity dome with 7" lid.

Takes about 10 days for clones to root depending on the age of the plant . . ..

Good luck, give peat pellets a try if you wanna try something cheap and easy.

smokeymacpot · Jul 23, 2010

3inch clone, 1.5inches of stem lightly scrapped gets dipped into rooting powder(do not wet stem before dipping and tap stem to remove excess powder), then goes into a peat puck in a propagation tray with a dome and left on a windowsill which receives no direct sunlight. 100% sucess after 10days.

Frozenguy · Jul 23, 2010

It sounds like something is wrong with your water. No reason so many methods will fail on you, especially the cup on the windowsill.

I have always had 100% success rate if I ever put a clone in a cup of water on the window sill and I dont change the water. The water is hard, at about 300ppm and has a pH of about 8.6 out of the tap and the clones will grow large roots in there.

Maybe your water is being softened? Do you have a TDS meter?

Either way, you can call your city for a free water report and you'll find out if they are softening it from the local source. If they aren't, maybe your apartment building/house is softening it. Softening it adds sodium to the water.

My normal method is just pure pH'ed water at 5.5 in rockwool and a quick dip in "dip n grow" and I get near 100% results every time within 8-16 days depending on strain/temp.

trichosaurus · Jul 23, 2010

Sorry to hear about your sad looking clones. After a week of no roots, the likelihood theyll develop roots is slim but I would take the dome off and let em breathe a bit. Sometimes thisll encourage them to push out some roots. Probably couldnt hurt at this point. :dunno:

My cloning method is nearly identical to etinarcadiaegos except I use Rapid Rooters. Had 32/34 (94%) clones root last time with this method. And all wouldve rooted most likely but the 9oz cups I transplant into only came in a 32 pack.

'K.I.S.S' is a great motto especially when cloning.

mtbazz · Jul 23, 2010

Actually my water is very hard 300-400 ppm and 15 grains per gallon calcium. On my first grow using it, almost everything died due to the calcium. Ive since switched to using RO or dehumidifier water only.

I did let the rock wool cubes sit in water for a couple of hours, changing the water out every 30 minutes.

Im really baffled. Like I said, in my old spot I had almost an 80% success rate, and I dont know why I cant reproduce that.

I guess I'll just keep trying until I find something that works. My next step is the water bottle ice cube tray:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847

Ordered one off amazon last week. It looks caveman easy!

Frozenguy said:
It sounds like something is wrong with your water. No reason so many methods will fail on you, especially the cup on the windowsill.

I have always had 100% success rate if I ever put a clone in a cup of water on the window sill and I dont change the water. The water is hard, at about 300ppm and has a pH of about 8.6 out of the tap and the clones will grow large roots in there.

Maybe your water is being softened? Do you have a TDS meter?

Either way, you can call your city for a free water report and you'll find out if they are softening it from the local source. If they aren't, maybe your apartment building/house is softening it. Softening it adds sodium to the water.

My normal method is just pure pH'ed water at 5.5 in rockwool and a quick dip in "dip n grow" and I get near 100% results every time within 8-16 days depending on strain/temp.

someotherguy · Jul 23, 2010

mtbazz said:
Actually my water is very hard 300-400 ppm and 15 grains per gallon calcium. On my first grow using it, almost everything died due to the calcium. Ive since switched to using RO or dehumidifier water only.

I did let the rock wool cubes sit in water for a couple of hours, changing the water out every 30 minutes.

Im really baffled. Like I said, in my old spot I had almost an 80% success rate, and I dont know why I cant reproduce that.

I guess I'll just keep trying until I find something that works. My next step is the water bottle ice cube tray:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847

Ordered one off amazon last week. It looks caveman easy!

it is man, that's why i posted the link and pics above
in an effort to help you man.

just follow the few simple instructions and you will get
good results, guaranteed.

btw, if you look closely at my pics above, the second
one with the cups in it, you will see a piece of dowel
with a penny attached (i drilled a small hole and then
screwed it to a piece of dowel), that is a ram to push
the rooted clones out from the bottom, if you just try
to pull them out you can damage the roots.

anyway, have fun, i wouldn't go back to cloning any
other way.

...oh yeah, here's a couple pics of my cloner cab built
to house 4 ice-tube-tray cloners up top and newly rooted
clones below, note that i'm able to passively capture heat
from the lower bulbs to keep my cloner reservoirs warm.

hope this helps, SOG

...and you're welcome.

xceptional · Jul 23, 2010

sorry about your luck. i tried every method and was successful at all of them BUT the best one for consistency and ease of use IMO is....Rapid Rooters!

Oasis Cubes - too wet
Rock wool - too wet
aero cloner - works but more maitnence AND cuts dont look as good (for me) as other methods with RO water, rooting hormone and slits, scrape and untouched stems.
Rapid Rooters - easy as pie! they retain water but not too much. i give them a spray every few days i just pick one up and squoosh it and if it dosnt drip water or feels too dry i give it a few sprays. success rate was as good as aero but i'm not watching PH (i dont care what ppl say in aero when i didnt cuts yellowed!) or worrying about clogged heads, failed motors etc. my power could go out for 4 days and my rapid rooter cuts would be fine i cant say that about aero. bubbler is just a chepo version of aero imo so i didnt spend the time or money building one of those. here was my aero unit i built, top notch one of the best DIY's i've seen of one so i didnt skimp i gave it a real chance!

71855d1268113012-50-site-cloner-veg-aeroponic-unit-few-unique-mods-cloner-finished-lid-lip-view.jpg

71857d1268113012-50-site-cloner-veg-aeroponic-unit-few-unique-mods-cloner-finished-manifold.jpg

71858d1268113012-50-site-cloner-veg-aeroponic-unit-few-unique-mods-cloner-finished-net-cup-mod-view.jpg

71859d1268113012-50-site-cloner-veg-aeroponic-unit-few-unique-mods-cloner-finished-top.jpg

71863d1268113012-50-site-cloner-veg-aeroponic-unit-few-unique-mods-full-cloner.jpg

notice i even used no wilt spray on the aero i've stopped doing that on rapid rooters and they look GREAT! dont put to many in the dome, dont overspray the RapidRooters or foiar too much. i do usually use 200ppm of a grow (FN Grow) in the solution i soak rapid rooters in and use CloneX gel....

xceptional · Jul 23, 2010

wow i cant even link to pics from the farm that i posted there? you really want me to hit both servers with the files? ridiculous.... but wahtever.....

Mezz Mezzrow · Jul 23, 2010

Make a solution of a capful of hydrogen peroxide per quart of water. Cloning solution optional. Soak stems of cuttings in water 24 hours. Coat stems in clonex. Insert into Root Riot cubes in humidome. Romulan cuttings show roots in six days.

Frozenguy · Jul 23, 2010

How can rockwool be "too wet" if I (among many others) can root a cutting in a glass of water?

foomar · Jul 23, 2010

If there have been no changes in the plants , equipment or technique then it can only be due to environmental differences between locations.

Water quality seems quite unimportant as long as its slightly acidic , pH much over 7 and i get losses , 6 - 6.5 runs consistant.

Same with humidity on suitably sized cuts , 25% to 80% ambient with no dome and no difference noticed in time or survival rate.

Light hours anywhere between 18 and 24 does not seem to have much effect , light intensity is certainly not critical as long as its low.

The factor that mostly decides the outcome from my own observations is rooting zone temperature , leaf temperature seems much less important.

Would guess that for some reason you are running significantly cooler at your new location , could be worth checking.

enter sandman · Jul 23, 2010

you would love the Daisy Cloner from Botanicare. It's $65 only. I have a review on mine in the growroom design/equipment forum. I've had 100% success and lost 0 clones so far AND they show roots in 4-5 days.

0% success rate in cloning.

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