Shit. I'm Screwed. Are these salvagable?

thefloyd · Jul 9, 2010

These plants have been growing for around a month at 12/12 from seed. They are really small and I'm not sure they've grown in a few weeks. It's ridiculously hot in the grow room, so I'm going to be fixing that soon. I would guess they've been under a lot of stress from the insane heat. I recently posted another thread where it was suggested they may be Mg deficient. This was before I transplanted them into some FFOF. On top of the transplant, I got some Epsom salt and put a small amount in. The PH sensor I have is one of those silly color water ones. I'm getting a PH of ~6.5 on the soil. One of them looks a little like nute burn so tomorrow I think I'm going to flush all of them 10 times over. Unless, you guys think they're too far gone. There is one that looks pretty green and OK, despite its slow growth. The rest may be fucked. They also (I think) are under watered at the time of taking this picture.

PS This is my second attempt at a first grow and I'm starting to this I'm an allover FAIL in this department.

Recomendations?

darrmann · Jul 9, 2010

first off you the plant needs to veg for at least a month on 24 hrs before you goto 12/12. You need to put them in bigger pots could be getting rootbound in small cups. Flush them out real good and go easy on the nutes when you start giving them again. What are you feeding them? You really need to do a ton of reading on the forumn just start reading other ppls problems and there some really good post on basic growing and stuff.

mean mr.mustard · Jul 9, 2010

They look dry as a bone too... I'd increase light distance as well.

statusquo · Jul 9, 2010

I am going to go out on a limb here and disagree with both of the above posters. I would never recommend 24/0 for a couple reasons. No downtime for the plant (this hasn't been proven to be necessary but 20/4 has consistently produced plants with healthier/bigger root systems which are directly correlated with yields), more expensive and more heat issues.

Also since you are using flouros I don't think you need to increase the distance. Artificial light diminishes exponentially with distance and I have seen plants that literally touch flouros and don't burn so I doubt that is the problem.

A lot of soils run hot (too many nutrients) for seedlings so I would make sure to be watering with plain water and maybe try giving it a flush. I would also try transplanting into a bigger pot with fresh soil.

mean mr.mustard · Jul 9, 2010

Sometimes it's good to let a stressed out plant recover from overloving.

:2cents:

twiztidbudsmoke · Jul 9, 2010

dont toss them! they just need plain water like the others said, some good airflow will fix your problem & then when thats fixed you can put the lights closer

Mr. Greengenes · Jul 9, 2010

darrman and mean mr. mustard said it all. I'd just add to watch your watering more than anything, and veg on a longer day period.

thefloyd · Jul 9, 2010

Thanks guys. I did the 12/12 from seed after reading on the forums about all the success with in. It's also a small grow space. Does it make sense to throw them into veg and then back to flower?

I originally had them in Fox Farm Light Warrior. Since theres no nutes in there I starting using Fox Farms liquid nutes after maybe two weeks. I waited until there were a few sets of leaves. This was when they were in the smaller cups! I noticed with the nutes they grew a lot in two days. Then the deficiencies started happening... So I thought that maybe upgrading to a bit bigger pot/cup with FFOF would help the deficiency. There were two males I killed, and the roots weren't even close to being rootbound in the smaller cups so I know thats not happening. I transferred them to FFOF which I thought might be OK considering their size, but apparently it's still too hot. I don't understand how some people get away with using it on seedlings as they always seem to burn whatever I put in it. I'll give it a good flush tomorrow and see how it goes. Is it normal they've barely grown in such a long time? Also, say I kept in that size cup the whole time, would the plant end up dying because it was rootbound or would it just stop growing (which is OK considering there are a few of them)?

Metalhead419 · Jul 9, 2010

Here is what I think, lol just my opinion.

First off, maybe a stupid question, but did you poke holes in the bottom of the cups for drainage?

Did you add anything to the FFOF like perlite or dolomite or just straight out of the bag? That size plant, in that cup, probably needs to be watered every other day, how often do you water?

What is the source of your water, Tap, or RO?

Growing plants is really easy. I think what happens is people lose sight of that with pot plants. Its very exciting to do your first crop, and so much more fun than tomatoes. At first, I got way overexcited, and just tried to hard. Stick to the basics and you will be good to go.

Don't get caught up in stupid arguments like 24 hours light or 18 hours light. At this stage in your growing career it doesn't matter, both will work just fine. Maybe do a little research and see what you think, but keep in mind, its not that important. I use 24 hours light for clones and 18-6 for vegging, thats what works good for me, but not necessarily the best for everyone in the entire world.

Plants need light, water, and the 16 macro and micro nutrients to live, and thrive. That should be your priority. With commercial soil, you should have the 16 macros and micros in the right amounts already in the soil, so you don't need to add anything as far as fertilizer at first, until the plant uses whats already there. Your focus should be on adequate drainage, so over-watering doesn't become a problem. Adding perlite also helps drainage. What kind of light do you have?

thefloyd · Jul 9, 2010

Hey Metalhead. Thanks. haha I am trying too hard. I'm used to the intricacies of software/hardware its so different playing with a plant.

I do have 4 holes at the bottom of the cup for drainage. The FFOF was straight out of the bag. I just transplanted a few days ago. I only watered it twice I think since. I need to keep better track of when I do things. Regardless I definitely need to water more.

I'm using bottled water. I plan on flushing with tap water. I just tested the pH of my tap and it shows up at 8.5+. So I'm going to get some phdown or something before I flush with it. Or find a bunch of bottled water. I want to get into using tap regularly.

As for lights, I'm using 2x 42W CFL @ 2700K (2800 Lumens each)

edit: since I have the holes does that mean I can't over water it?

JamieShoes · Jul 9, 2010

darrmann said:
first off you the plant needs to veg for at least a month on 24 hrs before you goto 12/12.

no it doesn't

bun1 · Jul 9, 2010

^^^I was about to write that.

I've done 12\12 from seed a few times before and never had any problems

@thefloyd-since I have the holes does that mean I can't over water it?

No, that just means you cant drown it.

When I started growing a few years ago I used to go by the weight of the pot. When I watered it the pot was heavy and I only watered again when the pot was light again. I found this to be the easiest way for beginners to keep from overwatering.

Just my 2 cents worth

Cheers

thefloyd · Jul 10, 2010

Thanks guys.. So I flushed yesterday and left them out for some sun all day. Today they're not looking any better. The leaves are still dropping and they don't look like they're going to perk back up. Will they ever?

Also, I just read that light kills roots. I originally had these in transparent cups before I put them in the blue cups. Could it be that the roots were killed and that's why it was/is growing so slow and having so many issues?

thefloyd · Jul 15, 2010

haha thanks pinkpixie. So I did some pH adjusting and they're growing again. Though I have a new problem. It looks like nute burn (cause of the burnt tips) and some deficiency (cause the light coloring). What'd you guys think?

chaz · Jul 15, 2010

just wanted to jump in real quick and add that i had the same issues with ffof.ive been noticing that the ffof is inconsistant.when i first found this site i searched around for others that had problems with that soil.many did.some people knock peat or promix but now even my local store wont even suggest mixing it with ffof anymore.i know the stuff is awesome but my opinion would be is that its too hot to use as a stand alone grow medium,it needs at least more perlite added,and sometimes i would hear that it was loaded with bugs or mites.i never saw bugs in mine.to be honest those are looking much better.in just 4 days?im sure you know "too much of one nute can lock-out another".expect to see some burnt tips.these are my opinions and i would not worry they will make it.just transplant into something that will allow more air and better drainage.do you have any more light warrior?

chaz · Jul 15, 2010

i believe darrmann set it straight for you.i love these guys.helping us inexperienced growers with simple and common mistakes and for what?just a simple thank you?good people.good people.thanks mr.greengenes!

thefloyd · Jul 16, 2010

thanks chaz. Yeah I have some more light warrior I could throw in there. But wouldn't another transplant only shock it/mess things up more at this time? Or does it not matter ?

robbiedublu · Jul 16, 2010

Not sure I understood you correctly but just in case, you can't just throw plants from under flourescents out into direct sunlight without aclimating them. The leaves will burn and bleach. Hope thats not what you did.

thefloyd · Jul 16, 2010

robbiedublu, that is what I did. I only did it for maybe 10 hours total. Thanks for the heads up.

chaz · Jul 16, 2010

i guess it might not be worth it for you until they are ready to be potted up.i just went through this if you look at my post "mother sick after transplant" in the infirmary.i abused her unintensionaly and seemed to lose about 20-25 lower leaves but she was a bushy kinda girl anyways.if a plant doesnt have enough structure to it you might risk losing a lot during an aggresive transplant.or even dropping it into a pot full o nutes.i took advise to lower fan speed and shut a bulb down from a helpful member and within hours she stood up on her own.if you flushed enough nute out then your ok but if you didnt you will see leaf tip burn or tips pointing down.if that is the worst that happens your good.just let it use up everything first.ive burnt a lot of things with ffof.you could basically grow start to finish in a 3 gal. pot of that soil alone!well maybe just a little of nutrients at the end for bloom boosting P+K,cal mag.i love light warrior it drains well.good luck my friend and maybe keep us posted?

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