Problem, maybe its getting better?

Ok, 1st grow, and things were fine until i noticed drooping leaves, and it ended up being root bound, and they were moved to 5 gallon buckets. Now, the leaves are drying and breaking on the bottems, and are pale yellow. I incresed my nutes from 50 percent to 75 percent strength and the new growth appears to be greener at the top. I dont have a PH meter, and ive never even opened my TDS pen. But the stuff is supposed to be organic, and from what i understood, i shouldnt need to PH the stuff. anyhow, hopefuly you guys can help me out here... thanks again.

ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
About 10 days.

What STRAIN are you growing?
Bagseed

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
Seed

What is the age of your plants?
About 3 to 3.5 months, 23 days into flowering

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
The whole time except when they just sprouted in jiffy pellets.

How Tall are the plants?
They are LSTed and about 20" tall, if i untied them, over 2 feet tall im sure.

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
LST, i had a net, but when the leaves started to yellow, I took them out and was going to flush them, but changed my mind.

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
1 per pot, 5 gallon buckets.

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
Using pro mix, organic, with about 15 percent more perlite.

What Nutrient's are you using?
AN iguana juice grow for veg, and the bloom for flower. Been adding molasses, and microbes, and trichoderma.

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
Iguana juice at 3/4 strength per gallon, 1 tsp of molasses per gallon, and 1 tsp of root orangisms per gallon.

How often are you feeding?
When the top is dry, and the pot feels about 50 percent lighter then when freshly watered. About every 3-5 days.

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
About 5 days into 12/12

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
I add iguana juice bloom in a gallon of distilled water, then add the molasses, then the root organisms.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
N/A

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
N/A

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
N/A

How often are you watering?
I feed every 3-5 days, never plain water, always the nute solution.

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
Today

What size bulb are you using?
400w HPS

What is the distance to the canopy?
12-14"

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
51 percent

What is the canopy temperature?
78-81

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
67-69 10ish degrese

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
About 200 CFM, using a stanley blower.

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
It runs 24/7, carbon filter, 6" ducting, air cooled light.

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
6" fan over the canopy, 4" blowing cool air from the floor up

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
the top drys out, but i assume there is some moisture in the middle to bottom of the pot.

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
I only use distilled water.

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Distilled

Are you using water from a water softener?
No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
No

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?
No


CLICK FOR PICS
not looking so good

as long as your only loseing fan leaves from the bottom , dont worry to much. She may be a heavy feeder. since the new growth is looking good its a good sign that she is recovering from the boost in feed. dont over do it till you know what the lady likes. Is that "UNSULFHERED" molasses your useing?

Yes, unsulfered molasses, so you thought the new growth looked ok also? My 1st time, so I keep thinking im fucking something up.

from what i can tell with the hps being on in those pictures, they look fine. If you have clones of these you might think of boosting the ferts ealier in the flowering stage and make sure to give a good feed of N before flowering them. That will help them through the stretch and will help them from becoming prematurely yellow in flower & you will get less of the yellowing bottom leaves. I also noticed the upper canope shades the bottom areas of your plants. Most leaves in this area will do what yours are doing when the light going to them is minimal.

Can you post some more pictures without the hps light on? The light hides the problem and it's impossible to see because of the hps spectrum.

You can't use a TDS pen when using organics,it will give you an improper reading and make the ppms look like it's very high with a lot of them.

pH pen, you need to get that out and test the run off, pH is very important, it's the backbone of allowing your plants to absorb it's nutrients properly.

Sounds like it could be early yellowing if the lower leaves are yellowing, this happens in flowering and is normal up to a certain age, after 30 days is when most of the time they start to yellow, but sounds like your plants were in trouble before going into flowering with the pot bound plants, pot bound makes it harder for them to absorb the nutrients evenily like they need; so going into flowering sounds like it was short on nitrogen to begin with, nitrogen is poorly absorbed in soggy soil, most of the time nitrogen is shown to be the first nutrient to become locked out due to small pot size and big plant size (pot bound or aka root bound)

I can't say that is what exactly what it is until I see some better pictures, but it's a high chance that is what it is.

Fixing it with nitrogen just slightly more will slow it down. They natrualy yellow in the middle to end of flowering, just like corn does right before it's ready to harvest.

You don't want high levels of nitrogen in the plant, so if that is what the problem is, go easy, just add slightly more to slow it down for another week and then stop using it. You don't want high levels of nitrogen before you flush, make it taste nasty.

Most of your leaves should be yellowing a week or 2 before harvest, the less nitrogen in the system the better towards the end.

Sure, thing, ill get some pictures when my lights off at tonight. Yeah the tops do look better today, at least a little. But as far as pruning it, ive read a lot of posts that people are saying just leave it, its how the plants absorb the light. I will have pics up in about 5 hours with out the hps. Thanks again.

Im not one for pruening fans either, but then i expect some of the lower leaves to suffer.

Ya, there is a lot of controversy about weather or not you keep or remove fan leaves vs yield.

If you have a lot of plants and the plants are small, I have seen many people trim them with a good yield only because of the mass amount of lighting and a lot of plants in small area.

I honestly think they need some big fan leaves, otherwise if they did not need them they would drop them like they do when they suck nitrogen from there fans. Fans act as a big storage for nutes. I have seen grows where when they cut off most of the fan leaves the little ones start dropping soon and more quick than the big fan leaves. I wonder how well they can do photosynthesis with leaves that are affected.....

Heres pics with the lights off, take a look. I hope it gets better. And man, i know i really need to get a PH pen, I have the TDS, but not PH. Ill have to get one somewhere i suppose. Thanks again.

Pics

http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=9667

Ya, you got nitrogen issues, what is your temps, I see some color changing purple going on as well.

You are also over watering your gals, 2 feet tall plants in 5 gallons water every 3 to 5 days is too much, well every 3 days that is, you let water come out the bottom?

You should go by the size when putting them into a pot, this helps there growth spurt and they grow quicker when they are moved up in steps, rather than just putting them into a big pot and let them root it.
It also is asking for overwatering problems too, not good to put the size plant in the pot you got them in.

Your plants look like they are being over watered,

Another thing does not help is, when you do over water them, nitrogen is not being absorbed right.

Right now I don't see a pH issue going on..... just the watering and the common nitrogen in flower shortage and I am sure it was speeded up by the over watering as well.

Hi NMS,
I don't have much to add. I just like to follow Infirmary threads to learn. It does look like water stress, so I'd agree with the advice you've gotten so far.

And with soil grows, you could get by very nicely and perhaps even better with narrow range ph litmus strips. I've had 4 ph meters and never trusted a single one...so I always double check with litmus. Finally I scrapped the meters and only use the strips. Get the ones that go from 5.5 to 8 and you'll be in good shape.
Peace,
ET

Thanks, the plants started in a small peat plug, then to a 6" pot, then to a 10" then to a 2.5 gallon, then to the 5 gallon buckets. And also Should I water like every 5 days then you think? Thanks again

NMS,
I just happened to be in the neighborhood...

With soil, people do various things. Feeling the weight of the pot dry and then you can guage when they need watering next...they'll feel light again. Also, some growers will measure the water they give so it's easier to be consistent.

Being waterlogged not only effects nutrient absorption, but it limits the exposure to air for oxygen absorption and risks root rot. So with over-watering, the plants are suffering from or exposed to several problems.

Your up-potting schedule looks fine to me.
ET

Just remember "light" in a 5 gal pot is relative to when u water...Its still going to feel heavy, but it will be light in comparison to being just watered.
If you let the pot get too dry (not necessarily wilting) you're going to kill the root hairs which need to be kept moist. If you let it get too dry between waterings its even easier to over-water since the roots get damaged, so maintain a good balance.