AN CarboLoad, is it really that good?

[glow]

My god you are some piece of work...

I've just been over to your website and tried to copy some of the absolutely terrible information you are citing about hydrogen peroxide and chlorine, to post it here, and you have copy-protected it!

The entire website is FULL of other people's literature - to the point where if you couldn't copy and paste bits and pieces of research, you would NOT have a website - and you have copy protected it...!

Anyway, the long and short of it is that, yes, you've copied pieces of text and research, but, my god, your interpretation of it is absolutely shocking, to the point where for me to break each part of it down would take me hours out of my day which I refuse to waste on you.

What you're saying about chlorine and peroxide breaking down organic matter like coir fiber... Jesus... I don't even know where to start. It's the work of someone who has no concept or understanding of the literature he is quoting, or is deliberately misinterpreting it to mean something else so he can push new, incorrect information to sell a product.

It's plain to see you are trying to promote your site because you've had the brainstorming idea that nutrients are really cheap to make and you can sell a few if you sound like you know what you're talking about, and the best way to do that is bluff people with someone else's work, taken completely out of context and misinterpreted to mean something entirely different.

You have no shame whatsoever.

At the end of the day, if you wanted to sell cheap meat and pass it off as prime steak, you wouldn't take it to Gordon Ramsey.

No more from me now regarding you. People of intelligence and knowledge will be able to see exactly the same thing I see in you and your writing, and everyone else... Well, the Darwinian theory will dictate.

I think this one has about run its course - go away you little wanker. You aren't worth any more breath. Don't feed the troll as they say.

 

[glow]

Now can we put this thread back on track?

 

[papaduc]

I think this one has about run its course

One thing we completely agree on.

Goodbye.

 

[Dr.King]

Not to diminish your grow or your choices in nutrient and additives. But what I'd like to see is some golden mean's that provide scale. Those buds look pretty small given the genetics but without something to provide scale it is hard to tell.

One pic from a grow op I ran with a friend and a second pic from another friend (Feral ex Mod on Natures High - RIP) with his first coco grow (best bud from it) which I ran for him re feeds and nutrients and daily checks. These were taken about 13 years ago. One grow equals a nutrient we made at the store I worked in (something close to Canna Coco with higher K) and a PK product at about PK 5-14. Big arsed bud grown with a nutrient and potash. Both grows in coco with micros /bennies. Point being you do not need untold additives to grow big arsed buds. That is what AN and a few others would have you believe. The formula for Carboload is on this thread if you are determined to use sugar.

My Buds look small? That is quite funny. Bud Size is linked to genetics some will never get big. I will say I didn't let the C99 stretch long enough to get bigger colas because of their genetics they need longer to stretch. Go look up the Ace's Breeders section, I have some of the biggest Malawi and Panama posted. These being 100% Sativas they usually don't get massive colas unless grown outside. I'm only growing under a 400 Watt HPS with 180 Watt Leds and I pull in 2 pounds a tent which are 5'x5' each. I'm not here debating the ingredients of AN. I just know it's a PH perfect formula which has had amazing results and aren't very expensive. A whole liter of Carboload is only 20 bucks and is made to work with Advanced Nutrients PH perfect system. My whole purchase lineup is only around 140 dollars including shipping because it's free on Ebay. That line up last me well over 2 grows and within that 2 grows I net way more cash then payed out. Really what's 140 bucks compared to tens of thousands? The product moves it's self really.

 

[acridlab]

A.n grown

 

[krunchbubble]

AN Sensi Line...
Proof is in the pudding as they say....

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Theres a lot of good info in this thread. Unfortunately there is a lot of bullshit in here too that totally washes out all the good info. If people would show some respect and not judge so much, it would be much easier to read through and gain some knowledge.

papaduc, ur pics look nice but I cant say what they would prove. At the end of the day all u can do is show some pics, explain what u are trying to convey and people can
make their own minds up if they can take some piece of it and learn from.

Glow, same for u, those colas are amazingly huge, but that doesn't tell me how much u yielded on a given wattage. But that doesn't matter cause I can respect the fact that u are sharing a nice pic with us and I can read what u are trying to convey and take what I want from that.

I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences, cause they don't have too, and usually I can learn something or at least appreciate the opportunity too.

Im not putting my herb on a scale here, but even if I did that could be faked a million different ways too. So we cant prove anything really by pics and claims. All we can do is use our best judgement. If we don't understand or believe what we are seeing we can ask politely for more clarification, or just move on to the next thread. but to stay in a thread and argue and degrade and derail the topic isn't fair to the community. They should have the right to read and debate for themselves if any of this info is pertinent to them.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

My Buds look small? That is quite funny. Bud Size is linked to genetics some will never get big. I will say I didn't let the C99 stretch long enough to get bigger colas because of their genetics they need longer to stretch. Go look up the Ace's Breeders section, I have some of the biggest Malawi and Panama posted. These being 100% Sativas they usually don't get massive colas unless grown outside. I'm only growing under a 400 Watt HPS with 180 Watt Leds and I pull in 2 pounds a tent which are 5'x5' each. I'm not here debating the ingredients of AN. I just know it's a PH perfect formula which has had amazing results and aren't very expensive. A whole liter of Carboload is only 20 bucks and is made to work with Advanced Nutrients PH perfect system. My whole purchase lineup is only around 140 dollars including shipping because it's free on Ebay. That line up last me well over 2 grows and within that 2 grows I net way more cash then payed out. Really what's 140 bucks compared to tens of thousands? The product moves it's self really.

That's quite an impressive gpw my friend, if u have a thread going id love to take a look at it so I can see if there is anything I can pick up on and learn and add to my grows. thank u for sharing.

See folks, I didn't call bullshit and ask him to prove it to me. I told him thank you for sharing and asked if there was some info I can read so that I may learn for myself.

I can hit that same gpw with stacked 600w bulbs and 1.0-1.2ec all the way through the plants life. Simple gh 6/9 no additives or anything else to accomplish this. I have been to cups and smoke cup quality herb, and I do believe my product would have just a good a chance of winning as any of the samples.

If someone were to ask me details of how I do it I am happy to share, but when someone tells me im full of shit, and to prove it, when there is no way to do so on the internet, what motivation do I have to prove it to that person. In fact that person is the type that thinks the world owes them something, and they have to learn the hard way like we all do, that nobodys gonna give u shit u got to go out there and put in the hard work yourself if u want something.

 

[glow]

My Buds look small? That is quite funny. Bud Size is linked to genetics some will never get big. I will say I didn't let the C99 stretch long enough to get bigger colas because of their genetics they need longer to stretch. Go look up the Ace's Breeders section, I have some of the biggest Malawi and Panama posted. These being 100% Sativas they usually don't get massive colas unless grown outside. I'm only growing under a 400 Watt HPS with 180 Watt Leds and I pull in 2 pounds a tent which are 5'x5' each. I'm not here debating the ingredients of AN. I just know it's a PH perfect formula which has had amazing results and aren't very expensive. A whole liter of Carboload is only 20 bucks and is made to work with Advanced Nutrients PH perfect system. My whole purchase lineup is only around 140 dollars including shipping because it's free on Ebay. That line up last me well over 2 grows and within that 2 grows I net way more cash then payed out. Really what's 140 bucks compared to tens of thousands? The product moves it's self really.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying re using something to show scale. That's not a bad yield given the genetics and lighting. BTW - I like the idea of using LEDs to alter the spectrum away from far red.

 

[glow]

Theres a lot of good info in this thread. Unfortunately there is a lot of bullshit in here too that totally washes out all the good info. If people would show some respect and not judge so much, it would be much easier to read through and gain some knowledge.

papaduc, ur pics look nice but I cant say what they would prove. At the end of the day all u can do is show some pics, explain what u are trying to convey and people can
make their own minds up if they can take some piece of it and learn from.

Glow, same for u, those colas are amazingly huge, but that doesn't tell me how much u yielded on a given wattage. But that doesn't matter cause I can respect the fact that u are sharing a nice pic with us and I can read what u are trying to convey and take what I want from that.

I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences, cause they don't have too, and usually I can learn something or at least appreciate the opportunity too.

Im not putting my herb on a scale here, but even if I did that could be faked a million different ways too. So we cant prove anything really by pics and claims. All we can do is use our best judgement. If we don't understand or believe what we are seeing we can ask politely for more clarification, or just move on to the next thread. but to stay in a thread and argue and degrade and derail the topic isn't fair to the community. They should have the right to read and debate for themselves if any of this info is pertinent to them.

Well said.

 

[glow]

That's quite an impressive gpw my friend, if u have a thread going id love to take a look at it so I can see if there is anything I can pick up on and learn and add to my grows. thank u for sharing.

See folks, I didn't call bullshit and ask him to prove it to me. I told him thank you for sharing and asked if there was some info I can read so that I may learn for myself.

I can hit that same gpw with stacked 600w bulbs and 1.0-1.2ec all the way through the plants life. Simple gh 6/9 no additives or anything else to accomplish this. I have been to cups and smoke cup quality herb, and I do believe my product would have just a good a chance of winning as any of the samples.

If someone were to ask me details of how I do it I am happy to share, but when someone tells me im full of shit, and to prove it, when there is no way to do so on the internet, what motivation do I have to prove it to that person. In fact that person is the type that thinks the world owes them something, and they have to learn the hard way like we all do, that nobodys gonna give u shit u got to go out there and put in the hard work yourself if u want something.

Actually I'd be more than happy to hear it and listen without passing judgement at all. One thing I do respect is different people have different approaches - what I can't respect is when people purposely attempt to derail threads because they have some sort of a chip on their shoulder.

 

[glow]

AN Sensi Line...
Proof is in the pudding as they say....

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36330&pictureid=1328884=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36330&pictureid=1328885=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=36330&pictureid=1329265=1]View Image[/url]

Looks nice (tasty) but a lot of lines with minimal additives (if any) would give you the same thing. That's the point I would stress - people keep attributing good results to a specific nutrient line and you name it additives. Everyone debates about what is the best line - no one agrees. The best line is an optimized environment (light spectrum and intensity, temp, RH, CO2 etc) and a good nutrient (brand is irrelevant as long as the NPK etc ratios are within optimum parameters) - environment is king. The problem is growers too often are debating nutrients and additives when they should be talking about how to optimize the environment. Sorry guys but speak to Ag scientists and they laugh their arses off about how the hydro industry flogs so many snake oils and myths to growers.

 

[EclipseFour20]

For the record, I have yet to see Papaduc participate in a discussion without pissing people off. IMHO, some people just don't know how to be "civil" and still be able to strongly disagree.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Looks nice (tasty) but a lot of lines with minimal additives (if any) would give you the same thing. That's the point I would stress - people keep attributing good results to a specific nutrient line and you name it additives. Everyone debates about what is the best line - no one agrees. The best line is an optimized environment (light spectrum and intensity, temp, RH, CO2 etc) and a good nutrient (brand is irrelevant as long as the NPK etc ratios are within optimum parameters) - environment is king. The problem is growers too often are debating nutrients and additives when they should be talking about how to optimize the environment. Sorry guys but speak to Ag scientists and they laugh their arses off about how the hydro industry flogs so many snake oils and myths to growers.

I think u nailed it here.

 

[acridlab]

I agree that there's tons of snake oils out there, etc. But one thing I do know is,, I've tried lots of lines, and they will indeed give u similar yields, bud size n density.. but none of them could bring out the terpines like sensi does for me.. maxibloom for example,,some of the biggest biggest yields ever for me,, BUT the smoke is dry and the buds were not as stanky.. dyna gr o,gave me awesome LOOKING plants,, but the buds lacked somethin in the flavor department.. I've tried many lines in the same setup, n I know for a fact that a.n outperforms most... people might not believe it, that's cool..and maybe it doesn't do the best for others.. I can believe it.. i did the trials and after a few good years of trying to find something better,, I finally gave up.. for my sanity, if anything, lol.. all in all,, there's lots of good nutes out there. But I like advanced.. and my opinion is that.. if people think a.n is overjoyed,, look at h&g, for Christ sake,, I ran it and I do like it,, but if u listen to people around here,, they act like it's the cats ads.. ran it for as almost a year, and now it's just collecting dust.. peace

 

[Fields~of~Green]

As long as everyone's happy with what there using who gives a fuck what other people think

If AN was so bad they would have been out of the game years ago companies don't survive on gimmicks sales tactics and shit products in any market let alone the hydroponics Industry ,what does work is repeat customers and you dont get that selling junk

P.s
I don't use AN I use plain as us like canna coco base and a pk boost here and there nothing else

 

[SativaBreather]

I think B52, Big Bud and Overdrive are good personally, had very good results with them
like plant magic as the base

 

[glow]

I agree that there's tons of snake oils out there, etc. But one thing I do know is,, I've tried lots of lines, and they will indeed give u similar yields, bud size n density.. but none of them could bring out the terpines like sensi does for me.. maxibloom for example,,some of the biggest biggest yields ever for me,, BUT the smoke is dry and the buds were not as stanky.. dyna gr o,gave me awesome LOOKING plants,, but the buds lacked somethin in the flavor department.. I've tried many lines in the same setup, n I know for a fact that a.n outperforms most... people might not believe it, that's cool..and maybe it doesn't do the best for others.. I can believe it.. i did the trials and after a few good years of trying to find something better,, I finally gave up.. for my sanity, if anything, lol.. all in all,, there's lots of good nutes out there. But I like advanced.. and my opinion is that.. if people think a.n is overjoyed,, look at h&g, for Christ sake,, I ran it and I do like it,, but if u listen to people around here,, they act like it's the cats ads.. ran it for as almost a year, and now it's just collecting dust.. peace

I sort of wonder how much shilling goes on, on forums though. Noticed a lot of H and G threads going on lately. Similarly see a lot of A and N shills who pretty much wrote the book on shilling on grow forums. You get extremely conflicting information re lines - firstly taste is a personal preference - everyones tastes buds somewhat differ - a physical, social and psychological thing so it's pretty much impossible to get anything substantive from claims that X tastes better than Y. AN has tried to enter the Australian market 3 times and failed - if their product were that good this wouldn't be the case (quality speaks for itself). H and G on the other hand entered Australia I guess about 5 years ago and are making massive inroads so if you were to use flawed reasoning this would say quality spoke for itself while the inferior was washed out. What everyone seems to miss though is that nutrients and additives for the most part are simply nutrient ions at given ratios and balances and concentrations - the best growth you get (close to genetic potential) is from ensuring these balances and ratios and concentrations are at the right levels at all times throughout the crop cycle. There's nothing magic to it and I have all the AN formulas and can categorically state there definitely is nothing magic to them. They're pretty much standard nutes (except for the presence of urea which is seldomly used in hydroponic nutrients because it is a relatively inefficient source of N and can convert to relatively high levels of ammonium N in solution) with no surprising ingredients that other manufacturers don't use.

What any psychologist will tell you, and certainly those psychologists who specialize in marketing, is that the power of suggestion is an amazing thing. So get on forums and tell people AN or H and G is the dogs bollacks of nutes and additives and it will find its mark. I call this the placebo effect. To ANs credit - what I will give them is that they have toned it down on the bull shit in the past few years and that they don't use chemical PGRs (subclass growth retardant) in any of their products. This said, any company who tried to flog the number of things (additives) they do to growers, to Ag scientists would be politely asked to leave the building (or thrown out physically dependent on who they were talking shit to). Nutrient companies have made a fortune on the fact that they are selling to largely uneducated growers and the education they do get is through the hydro industry and forums (where shills are common). Bottom line is that any company that says you need a million additives is really saying their base nutrients are shite or they are bull shitting in the quest for the all mighty dollar.

BTW - it is also in the interests of hydro retailers to flog the more expensive products because they make a higher profit so its smart business for companies to hike up their wholesale price and then the retailer makes more. So for example when I was in retail we pushed Canna because it was the most expensive brand and it is also good but first and foremost if we sold a $99 10 ltr set we made about $50 but if we sold an equal product for $50 we made $25. So those who make expensive nutes have the retailer onside - yet more marketing.

Talking of psychology and marketing.... Word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertizing so by AN, H&G or other company shills getting on forums and posing as neutral peers to growers and promoting products this becomes a very good way to convince growers to use product X or Y. What is certain is companies understand this and use this to their financial advantage. Can't blame them for this but it taints the quality of information that is circulated via forums.

 

[acridlab]

I should have added that it's not only me saying a.n wins in our garden,, my wife's patients all agree,, so all the placebo suggestions are void round here,, peace

 

[glow]

I should have added that it's not only me saying a.n wins in our garden,, my wife's patients all agree,, so all the placebo suggestions are void round here,, peace

That's seriously reductive - sorry. My patients all agree that my product is the best they've ever tasted and I don't use AN. BTW - that is as reductive as the statement you just made and means absolutely nothing. See my comments about taste buds and personal preference etc.

Organic growers will tell you organics taste best etc etc etc. It all means nothing and is little more than opinion. End of day claims to the effect of within my extremely limited sample group based on anecdotal feedback I can categorically state X are flawed. What would need to be done would be actual scientific lab tests that demonstrated the levels of flavonoids and essential oils (THC,CBN, CBD etc) that various nutrient regimes and approaches (e.g. hydro v organic) resulted in. Other than this double blind taste tests would be needed. I.e. people given product of the same genetics grown with different nutrient lines and asked which one tasted and smoked best. Only then would any claim of this type be credible because it has been qualitatively tested.

So far I have not seen a single company release these types of tests where nutrient lines are compared. BTW - I'd be suspect if they did and would rather see independent non commercial research by credible scientists which is then peer reviewed and tested by other scientists.