turning back to shatter

[SmokedFish]

First i want to say thanks to Graywolf and all the others that have provided time and information to help others.

anyways .....
so i have a decent size slab of og shatter that somehow due to temp change ,darkened and buttered up really bad while in a sealed bag. so i took a small sample and vac'd it @105 for 4 hrs in an AI and got a really nice consistency that i can work with . not so much shatter or glass but a golden fruit roll up thats not sticky at all. after this success i tried the slab and vacd over night. i could see through the window the 4 hrs wasnt enough . results were very different. tried several more times over the next few days. thinned out the slab, ramped up the temp to 115. as recommended. did experience some loss of terps with a very cloudy waxy consistency. to be honest my main concern is the clarity . how can i get the nice clear golden amber end results?

at the same time i began to winterize a sample adhering to the skunkpharm method. seeing that i will lose so much yeild, i am positive that i really do not want to go that route.

any suggestions ?

 

[Chonkski]

First i want to say thanks to Graywolf and all the others that have provided time and information to help others.

anyways .....
so i have a decent size slab of og shatter that somehow due to temp change ,darkened and buttered up really bad while in a sealed bag. so i took a small sample and vac'd it @105 for 4 hrs in an AI and got a really nice consistency that i can work with . not so much shatter or glass but a golden fruit roll up thats not sticky at all. after this success i tried the slab and vacd over night. i could see through the window the 4 hrs wasnt enough . results were very different. tried several more times over the next few days. thinned out the slab, ramped up the temp to 115. as recommended. did experience some loss of terps with a very cloudy waxy consistency. to be honest my main concern is the clarity . how can i get the nice clear golden amber end results?

at the same time i began to winterize a sample adhering to the skunkpharm method. seeing that i will lose so much yeild, i am positive that i really do not want to go that route.

any suggestions ?

Here's my input brother!

This far along, there is not many simple steps you could make to achieve stable carboxylic acid (shatter) form. Winterizing in hopes that your cannabinoids arent partially decarbed would be your best step.

Other than that, you could sacrifice terpenes by flash heating the oil to 150°-170°f for a simple clarity trick. That won't always fix the stability though.

Hope this helps

 

[teemu shalanie]

yah I would have to agree < I notice higher temps get to the shatter consistency , but you sacrifice tasty terps....

TS

 

[SmokedFish]

i figured that would be one of my choices. i appreciate the input. do you recommend vacuum at these temps. also i had another crazy idea about winterizing without the winter part. ie dissolving in everclear and evaporating and vacuuming ? is that just silly ?

 

[Roji]

i figured that would be one of my choices. i appreciate the input. do you recommend vacuum at these temps. also i had another crazy idea about winterizing without the winter part. ie dissolving in everclear and evaporating and vacuuming ? is that just silly ?

Yes, you can just dissolve it in everclear and evaporate it back into shatter quite easily. You dont have to winterize if it was low wax bho to begin with. You can do this with most bho products as long as it hasnt decarbed yet. If it has, its not going to shatter again. It will be gooey.

 

[SmokedFish]

Yes, you can just dissolve it in everclear and evaporate it back into shatter quite easily. You dont have to winterize if it was low wax bho to begin with. You can do this with most bho products as long as it hasnt decarbed yet. If it has, its not going to shatter again. It will be gooey.

thanks Roji for helpin out. to me this is good news because it seems like the least aggressive and damaging method compared to any extra heating. im going to find out soon on my own lol, but worst case scenario , what does gooey mean to you?

 

[SmokedFish]

Here's my input brother!

This far along, there is not many simple steps you could make to achieve stable carboxylic acid (shatter) form. Winterizing in hopes that your cannabinoids arent partially decarbed would be your best step.

Other than that, you could sacrifice terpenes by flash heating the oil to 150°-170°f for a simple clarity trick. That won't always fix the stability though.

Hope this helps

thanks for your input i value your opinions

 

[Chonkski]

If you ask me, I would say why bring in a second solvent unless you're going to at least freeze over night and filter?

Just another solvent (with a much higher BP) to have to purge. If you dissolve the bho in everclear, that's saying goodbye to a lot of terpenes regardless because of the evaporation process, and the need for higher purge temps.

Gooey isn't bad as long as there isn't a ton of nastys in it

 

[SmokedFish]

If you ask me, I would say why bring in a second solvent unless you're going to at least freeze over night and filter?

Just another solvent (with a much higher BP) to have to purge. If you dissolve the bho in everclear, that's saying goodbye to a lot of terpenes regardless because of the evaporation process, and the need for higher purge temps.

Gooey isn't bad as long as there isn't a ton of nastys in it

i hear ya on the gooey

adding iso or a second solvent i have never done. i just dont know...

 

[BrainChild]

I'd call winterizing minus the "winter" part recrystallization. You can dissolve some waxy oil in alcohol and then purge without chilling and filtering and end up w a pretty clear consistency. IMO a better option if you don't want to chill it is to just dissolve some in ever clear, let it dissolve all the oil and let it set in solution at room temp for a few hrs (or longer). You'll notice a lot of waxes will fall out even at room temp. You can easily filter w a coffee filter and then purge...should help w clarity. But best bet is full winterization

 

[SmokedFish]

I'd call winterizing minus the "winter" part recrystallization. You can dissolve some waxy oil in alcohol and then purge without chilling and filtering and end up w a pretty clear consistency. IMO a better option if you don't want to chill it is to just dissolve some in ever clear, let it dissolve all the oil and let it set in solution at room temp for a few hrs (or longer). You'll notice a lot of waxes will fall out even at room temp. You can easily filter w a coffee filter and then purge...should help w clarity. But best bet is full winterization

i have had a portion in the freezer for a while. i like to winterize a portion everytime for my own enjoyment of seeing what strands do what. i will try your method and see what i get also. it makes sense thanks

 

[JointOperation]

yup. if anything.. id just purge until it combs up.. so its easier to work with..

but.. in reality.. if theres a higher wax content.. it will wax up.

but if u want it to be as clear as possible.. dewaxing is your answer..

but iuno i dont mind the different consistencies.. honestly. i got some WAX.. some HoneyComb.. some Shatter.. Some Sap.. and some Budderry sticky stuff..

all was purged for long times and the entire pieces were run until no sparking and then tossed in again to make sure the butanes gone.. and then i turn into what the person im extracting for wants..

ive noticed .. alot of outdoors is super waxy.. so unless u single solvent dewax.. or winterize.. u arent going to end up with a super clear shatter.. also freezing tubes down to the -30- -70 is what can help stop the extraction of alot of waxes..

but good luck. hope it works out..

also noticed .. some strains like to wax up more then others.. and some dont..

i got 1 strain.. that no matter wat i do. its a waxy consistency.. or turns into like a brown sugar consistency ..

 

[SmokedFish]

yup. if anything.. id just purge until it combs up.. so its easier to work with..

but.. in reality.. if theres a higher wax content.. it will wax up.

but if u want it to be as clear as possible.. dewaxing is your answer..

but iuno i dont mind the different consistencies.. honestly. i got some WAX.. some HoneyComb.. some Shatter.. Some Sap.. and some Budderry sticky stuff..

all was purged for long times and the entire pieces were run until no sparking and then tossed in again to make sure the butanes gone.. and then i turn into what the person im extracting for wants..

ive noticed .. alot of outdoors is super waxy.. so unless u single solvent dewax.. or winterize.. u arent going to end up with a super clear shatter.. also freezing tubes down to the -30- -70 is what can help stop the extraction of alot of waxes..

but good luck. hope it works out..

also noticed .. some strains like to wax up more then others.. and some dont..

i got 1 strain.. that no matter wat i do. its a waxy consistency.. or turns into like a brown sugar consistency ..

theres a whole story of why im having this problem. its out of my control. like you say its all about who the extraction is for.

 

[Red Bear]

this also happened to a recent batch made about 180 grams outsider vacuum purge kit for about a day put it in the cupboard the week later it waxed up and turn dark in the cupboard I put it in the tube lets it butane for about an hour coffee then pour onto parchment winsome whatsapp be quickly vacuum purge 2 full muffin puff then I let it sit in the chamber for about 5 days running the vacuum pump for about 20 to 30 minutes at a time every morning with the hot plate underneath set at 90 degrees with my seedling heat mat thermostat controlling it got very clear very nice amber very stable shatter was pretty shocked how well it turned out from being dark crappy wax 44 now I got some shower the people were happy with orange amber hard shatter

 

[Red Bear]

sorry about my confusion post above
all I wanted to say was that I've had some shatter that was clear shatter turn to dark wax in a matter of the week because it was not in the fridge I guess even when some did not turn the wax
and what I did with it was so good and butane for an hour and filter through a coffee filter and then hurry and purge it within an hour or so at the sappy point so I got a muffin puff
let it sit in the chamber for about five daysrunning the vacuum pump once a day and I got clear shatter

not sure what happened here but pretty happy it seems to be stable this time
wish I could figure out what's going on in there as I don't seem to of filtered off anyway waxes more just redissolved
I don't know what happened

 

[Red Bear]

Oh jeez I meant to say I soaked it in butane for an hour in a jar then poured through a coffee filter

 

[KONY]

in my limited experience, stuff that was clear at first, but waxes up a short time later(few days), was not actually purged completely from the get go.

 

[jmewsk]

Hey man from personal experience ive noticed it maybe not be ur purging tech. Look at your filtration because u may be letting more waxes through initially. Of course single solvent dewaxing will pull those impurities, but not everyone prefers to dewax to make clear shatter.

Im an open blaster at the moment. I pack my tube freeze for 24 hr minimum, then i run cooled solvent through my frozen column which has 2 25 micron ss filter screens. This tech seems to reduce the amount of lipids/waxes extracted from the beggining. Im not claiming its dewaxing at all, just more efficient than running warm material and solvent.

Another thing to look at is how much u are agitating the oil. If your scrapping from pyrex to partchment dont scrape to early as this can cause foaming which helps cause buddering. Also excessive folding adds air which can help to budder/wax. one other thing to think about is how much u despress your vac during purging. I pull a full vac adjust temps till ur muffin falls then seal it off and leav it. Most people wait to flip ordepress vac until most bubbles are gone. Then you slowely release ur vac remove slab, *** flip without using fridge/freezer (should be stable at this point to flip unless viscosity is high like high Cbd strains) repeat the process till ur happy with your clarity.

Coming from a place with decent quality starting material i am always able to make stable shatter that doesnt budder for atleast 2 weeks cause thats wen i hafta reup...the struggle haha

Hope this helps you analyze your process and figure out how to make shatter your happy with!!

 

[JointOperation]

was just going to ask.. is cbd strains more liquid? or...

 

[Permacultuure]

IME CBD strains tend to less viscous.......meaning they are more runny.
Most extractors suffer from "viscosity dyslexia"

High viscosity = stability Low viscosity = running goop

I fuck this one up at least once a day.