opinion on ideal PH in hydro/dwc

[sidewing]

So i was looking at this chart for hydro and i know most places i read say the ideal PH is around 5.6-5.9 somewhere in that range. it seems to me that (according to the pic) the ideal range would fall more into the 5.0-5.3 range?

you can see around 5.5 to 6 range the nitrogen, potassium, calcium and magnesium begin to taper off, as does phosphorus but from the other end of the spectrum.

it appears that, unlike soil, right around the 5.0-5.3 ph range, nearly everything is available at near peak levels. phosphorus is near a peak, nitrogen peaks back up after its taper off, calicium and magnesium do the same. everything on that chart is near peaked except molybdenum which is at the lower end of it's taper off spectrum.

I'm in my 2nd round of DWC right now and have always been a soil grower years prior, so i'm in my beginning learning stages of hydro and everything related to it involving PH levels. does anyone have any thoughts or input as to my thoughts that i should run my ph around 5.0-5.3 range instead of the hovering around 5.6-6.0 range? and becuase most people run in the 5.5-6 range could that possibly be why a lot of people feel they need to supplement with calmag (not because there is not enough in their nutrients, but because their PH range is not ideal for cal/mag uptake as it chokes off big time in this 5.5-6 range)

here is the pic:

 

[dansbuds]

this is the chart i use ..... it seems a little more user friendly than yours .but the sweet spot for hydro is 5.8 or 5.9 PH

 

[resinryder]

On my hydro table I find 5.6 to 5.8 to be the sweet spot. I have more problems if it gets above 5.8 with a lot of strains. Just my opinion and 15 years of experience
As far as not enough cal/mag levels at the ph you mentioned, most nute makers don't put enough of it in their main nute mix. You can tell that because they all have a bottle of some type of cal/mag product sitting on the shelf beside it. Botanicare years ago used to make an iron supplement that I liked but it got discontinued.
Each plant seems to have it's own requirement also so cal/mag supplementation is subjective to that plants needs.

 

[sidewing]

hmm. wonder why the difference in the charts. by yours 5.8 definitely looks the best. i was running dutch master in DWC first round keeping ph right around 5.6-5.8 but plants always seemed to be on the verge on yellowing. in veg and in flower. PPM's around 900 on .5 conversion.

i use botanicare calmag+ because im using RO and was having deficiencies w/ DM nutes in RO. seemed to fix it.

i just ordered maxibloom and maxigrow powder to use in veg/flower now in favor of saving some money because bottled nutrients will be the end of me it seems financially.

i also decided to go by EC's instead of PPM's now. anyway i just mixed the veg bucket, 1.4 ec at a ph of 5.9. but in flower i did 1.7ec and ph of 5.4.

i never had to ph the water using dutch masters, grow dialed in right at 5.9 and bloom right at 5.6. now with maxigrow/bloom i have to use PH up because mixed it takes it down to 4.5. wondering now if i should raise my PH up in flower from 5.4 to 5.8.

 

[sidewing]

i guess i'll go by your chart and the 15 years experience and keep it right at 5.8

is that ideal for veg and for flower?

 

[resinryder]

Veg doesn't much matter I've found. Anywhere from 5.8 to 6.1
Flower is where I find it does matter.
And lower your flower ec. I never run over 1.4 in flower. Using ro water you have more control over what you are feeding. In most cases EC of 1.2 is fine and 1.4 is ok. Anything higher can be too much. Keep an eye on your leaf tips. Itf they start to burn you're at your limit and back down a point.
If using tap water a higher ec could be used due to the mineral content of the tap water.
Seems the plants grow better, stress less, and produce better when they work for the food that's available instead of having high ec's to feed on.
Having said that, in veg higher ec's can be used depending on stage of growth to hurry them along.
I prefer 5.6 to 5.7 but I don't worry if it eases to 5.8

 

[resinryder]

Also, just for what it's worth, I had to change nute lines about 5 years ago as the one I had been using was going to become unavailable.
I did a side by side with Maxi Grow/Bloom and FloroNova Grow/Bloom. Same room, strains, temps, additives,ph, ec, etc...
I had a better smelling, better tasting, better looking, and heavier final product with the FloroNova. Been using it ever since.

 

[sidewing]

ill have to look into it. since i have this stuff its what ill be using for the time being. i was very satisified with the quality of bud that im seeing with dutch masters. just bottled nutrients is offsetting to me coming from soil where i used to be able to run a whole round for under 40 dollars. seems with the maxibloom/grow powders the price is back in that range.
thanks though for the info ill research it

 

[dansbuds]

Maybe cuz i use coco coir as a medium , but i find that in flower my plants like a PH of 5.9 to 6.1 cuz it gives them a touch more phospherous , cuts back on the calcium & gives more Mag which the plants require more of at that time when using coco . calcium tends to build up in the coco by the 3rd or 4th week in flower & doesn't need anymore , just Mag
But RR's right , you don't need to go any higher than 1.2 to 1.4 EC .... EVER , especially in DWC .

 

[dansbuds]

resin ryder , don't you flood & drain smart pots of coco ???

how does the PH fluctuate with your system ??? i've been really considering F&D smarties of coco myself & have been reading conflicting results .....


sorry for the highjacking sidewing

 

[resinryder]

I can get behind that dansbuds. I damn near ruined a 4x4 table of Legend OG a while back by running the ph in the range you mentioned. Once I lowered it back down to the range I normally do, 5.6-5.7 all the problems just went away. That's using 2 gallon smartpots filled with a 50/50 mix of coir/coco chips. But I am seriously wondering if the Gorilla Glue 4 would benefit from a higher ph as it tends to yellow earlier a lower ph's. Damn sure something to think about. Like I said earlier, each strain is different.

 

[dansbuds]

shes a Mag whore fer sure !!!! so if anything suppliment with some epsom salts if your hooked on the lower PH for your system .

 

[resinryder]

resin ryder , don't you flood & drain smart pots of coco ???

how does the PH fluctuate with your system ??? i've been really considering F&D smarties of coco myself & have been reading conflicting results .....


sorry for the highjacking sidewing

Having great results my friend.
Usually the first week of bloom I do have fluctuations but nothing serious. Also for a day or 2 after flushing with clearex(when I do that) I run veg nutes the first week. EC 1.0 veg nutes and .4 EC bloom nutes the second week. Week 3 is 50/50 veg and bloom if running longer than 75 days otherwise it's EC 1.2 to 1.4 bloom nutes for anything under 75 days.
Usually the ph holds steady tho and even when they start using 3-4 gallons a day the ec holds pretty much the same. If it drifts up it isn't usually enough to matter. NOW, I am noticing when I add silica to the mix I have to watch the ph a bit more the first couple days after adding.
If you go f&d, get a bigger res. A 40 gallon will run a 4x4 for 3-4 days in full/late bloom no problem. That's 9-12 4-5 ft plants. But if you want to take a week off a 70 gal will allow you to leave for a week or so due to the extra 30 gallons available.

 

[dansbuds]

Cool !! thanx for that Info RR
i'm thinking 40 gallon rez's under 3 x 3 trays that i have now with 4 3 gallon smarties per tray .
i can't do it here in my attic ( no headroom ) , but when i finally get out of here F & D smarties of coco is my plan . I may hit you up then if ya don't mind . thanx again brutha !!!

 

[resinryder]

Any time bro. BTW, 3 gallons are a waste of space on the tables. Longer to fill in veg and no noticeable improvement in yield/ Been there done that.
Get the 4x4's and thank me latter. Only 1sqft more than a 2x4 and 7sqft less than a 4x4(there abouts)

 

[dansbuds]

gotcha !!! food for thought

 

[One Love 731]

5.3-5.8. If you find it to drift up start low. If it drifts down start high. Anything below or above and you will see problems. Drift is good, know which direction its gonna head and start at the opposite. As it drifts different nutrients have more ability for uptake. Also read about catalysts. Magnesium is magic in flower. 1