After a solid 1.5-2 years down, it's time for a comeback. I need some serious advice!

[RSA]

So, to avoid typing paragraph after paragraph about the specifics of what happened in the past, let me give you all a quick background, where I stand now and what I need advice on.

I started growing about 6-8 years ago. Started out with a 400W CMH + 400W HPS, in a small tent with usually 4 females. My first grow was FFOF & CannaCoco, I must of did something right because that bud was amazing - Nirvana's White Rhino.

Fast forward a bit. I upgraded and went to a growlab with 2 x 1000W HPS for flowering, and 2 x 400W CMH for veg. I have had nothing but problems when using ProMix (BX I believe).

The plants would seem to start out fine - and even during veg they looked great. The problem is, right before flowering I would notice HUGE deficiency issues, plants turning yellow almost overnight and would never really finish properly, and the end result was barely mediocre, at best.

I would meticulously test the pH of the nutrient mixes I was feeding, feeding every other watering with a pretty popular bloom/veg brand (the name escapes me at the moment.)

I am going to start back up in about 2 months. I'm leaning towards going straight CannaCoco. GL 145L, 2 x 1000W HPS for flowering.

This grow tent is located in a room within my home that has no air conditioning or heater built in (like whole-house) so I'm limited to using space heaters or window air-conditioners to keep temps within range.

One BIG problem has always, ALWAYS been finding ways to keep temps and humidity where they should be. Space heaters are a major pain in the ass, a fire hazard, but it's my ONLY option when it comes to growing in the winter. That said, with the tent closed it seems to like to maintain it's own. I tried a humidifier, but that thing broke after running as frequently as it did and with the air exchange it was almost as if there wasn't even a humidifier in there.

I run a 600+ CFM fan, with 2 air-cooled hoods. I usually start out about 40-50 seeds, hoping for a solid 12-20 females.

Here's what I need some advice on. I've tried scouring thread after thread here for information, and while I gather bits and pieces, most of the time questions specific to my op aren't answered and I'm left guessing which has led to half the problems that I have.

I have to use tap water until I can afford a R/O system. This MAY be a part of the problem, but keep in mind - I had (2) successful grows way back when with a mix of FFOF and Canna Coco with Nirvana beans, using the same tap water. I know this isn't preferred, and I know this may or may not cause problems, but honestly for my first start up in years I want to perfect the method first, make some money, then get an R/O filter to ensure the water itself isn't an issue.

My questions:

1.) If I go straight Canna Coco, what does the community recommend as far as a line of nutrients? These plants will be transplanted twice, once from dixie cups into 2 gal's, once sexed into 5 gals to flower. From the day the seeds are started, how often do I feed and how often do I water, and at what strengths? Specific brands would be helpful here.

2.) PH issues - when I water my plants straight water, what pH should the water itself be? When I mix in nutrients, what pH of that nutrient/water mix should it be?

3.) Humidity/Temps - assuming I can maintain a solid 75-78 deg, how the hell do I get humidity up with a 600CFM fan exchanging air so fast? Again, a cool mist humidifier did jack shit.

4.) Strains - I am looking for thick buds, knockout type strains. I'll eventually move onto sativas once I perfect my skills, but for now I need 'commercial' strains. I've ran Nirvana with some success, and BOG - but unfortunately many of BOG's hermied on me, when compared to Nirvana. What are SOLID recommendations that PRODUCE as of Aug 2014?

5.) Under 2000W with say 16-20 females, what 'average' dry harvest that I should I be shooting for, in ounces?

I still have yet to invest in some important items, such as carbon filter, some new fans as well as seeds, so I'm trying to get a grasp on how to start so when the time comes, I can hit the ground running.

Thanks to anyone who helps!!

 

[stoned40yrs]

Whew lot of questions I'll cherry pick a couple easy ones. You made the right choice going to coco. I switched from soil to coco after a 3 year layoff also.
Forget the 5 gal container stuff and quit thinking like soilers do 2 gal fabric is the shits. You don't need or want larger and you can still grow trees in 2s. The plants in coco grow faster the more often they are water/feed.
Handwater to runoff.
Either run Maxibloom KISS 7g/gal or 6/9m GH micro- bloom
Don't add nothing else, it's all you want. Both are great and you keep the variables limited. You don't need anything else to do great. Work on your environment and keep it simple when you can.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Whew lot of questions I'll cherry pick a couple easy ones. You made the right choice going to coco. I switched from soil to coco after a 3 year layoff also.
Forget the 5 gal container stuff and quit thinking like soilers do 2 gal fabric is the shits. You don't need or want larger and you can still grow trees in 2s. The plants in coco grow faster the more often they are water/feed.
Handwater to runoff.
Either run Maxibloom KISS 7g/gal or 6/9m GH micro- bloom
Don't add nothing else, it's all you want. Both are great and you keep the variables limited. You don't need anything else to do great. Work on your environment and keep it simple when you can.

 

[Weeded1s]

Ill take a crack at a few as well.
Never water with str8 h20 always use a low feed at least to keep cations (cec) in place. Ph 5.8 works well for me.
Yields r hard to guess in any situation but 1 gram per watt is an awesome goal. Some r happy with 1/2 gram and above.
For humidity the ac usually cuts down some of the rh and all the big dogs buy the expensive big boy humidifiers....the combo of both seems to work but with good inner air circulation as well.
Peace

 

[Weeded1s]

I didnt see humidifier my bad I told you how to dehumidify. When u add all your plants and close up the room/tent the plants will perspire along with the surrounding rh you should be pretty ok. You want to be around 40 rh in flower but sometimes i get down to 25. Prob not the best but im not sealed (co2 ..ac..aircooled) and I dont see much yield loss if any. Some say you can never go to low in flowering but that seems off to me and im sure the vapor blah blah threads would agree. Wet towels ..buckets of water etc...but the most important thing is to avoid bud rot and mold ( high rh in flower). 50 to 60 rh in veg is good. I try to avoid anything higher than that at all times.
L8s

 

[CloudyAmberDay]

My questions:

1.) If I go straight Canna Coco, what does the community recommend as far as a line of nutrients? These plants will be transplanted twice, once from dixie cups into 2 gal's, once sexed into 5 gals to flower. From the day the seeds are started, how often do I feed and how often do I water, and at what strengths? Specific brands would be helpful here.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55683

GH micro / GH Bloom - 6/9 - half strength for seedlings/small clones check out the thread. Very economical.

Some say water seedlings till cotyledons turn yellow, some say maintain the cec with 1/4 strength nute mix. I do the latter.

Coco is popular for taking a lot of feedings, however if a decent root structure isn't established - YOU CAN overwater. I like to water dixie cups every other day - let dry out somewhat on transplants (after transplant water) slowly up the waterings and build the roots. I'm on my first coco grow and this has worked great for me. When I say up the watering, I'm talking 24 hour, 36 hour, 48 hour intervals. Prob. shouldn't use lift pot method with coco as it likes to stay moist but I did to build the roots. Water till run off everytime.

2.) PH issues - when I water my plants straight water, what pH should the water itself be? When I mix in nutrients, what pH of that nutrient/water mix should it be? You want to be in the 5.8-6.1 zone. When you water with straight water you can ph it to 6.0 (last week or so for flush only) - although some like to flush with 1/4 strength nutes because it takes more salts out. I've never finished in coco, but it seems as if it can be flushed fairly quick...you can check out my journal, had a bad start..

3.) Humidity/Temps - assuming I can maintain a solid 75-78 deg, how the hell do I get humidity up with a 600CFM fan exchanging air so fast? Again, a cool mist humidifier did jack shit. Your only options really are a bucket of water, when the foliage increases the RH will go up, bigger the plants, the more the RH will climb as the plants transpire. I vegged with 35 RH this run and they did fine as it climbed to 50 RH. Although it's not ideal at all...I misted them a lot..

4.) Strains - I am looking for thick buds, knockout type strains. I'll eventually move onto sativas once I perfect my skills, but for now I need 'commercial' strains. I've ran Nirvana with some success, and BOG - but unfortunately many of BOG's hermied on me, when compared to Nirvana. What are SOLID recommendations that PRODUCE as of Aug 2014? Barney's farm critical kush. Check out the high yielding strains on the seed websites. To be honest it's all in the environment and genetics/phenotypes. Lot's and Lot's of high yielding knockout strains.

http://www.herbiesheadshop.com/biggest-yields

by the way something you said

"I am looking for thick buds, knockout type strains. I'll eventually move onto sativas"

Their are some sativa's that will straight knock you out - also great yielders. I suggest you check some out.

Here's a easy to grow, great yielding indica.

Barneys Farm - Critical Kush

Developed by the Barney’s Farm team. An unusual blend of fine genetics. Critical Kush is a blending of the famous Critical Mass with OG Kush. This is a powerful and extremely vigourous indica plant, yielding huge amounts of beautiful stoney kush. Flowers in just 8 weeks indoors, and grows medium height with great flower-to-leaf ratio. Take pleasure in it's sticky feel, aromatic sent, crystal-covered buds and knockout-stoney high. The kush taste is unmistakable, and the yield per plant phenomenal. This new hybrid is a significant advance in modern marijuana breeding. It's Indica-dominant nature makes it ideal for relaxation, pain relief, and late night smoking.

Type: Indica
genetics: Critical Mass X O.G. Kush
Yield: 750gr/m2
Height: 80-90cm
Flower time: 55-60 days
Harvest time: End September
THC: 25%
CBD: 2.1%


At the end of the day you should get good yields with most strains, shoot for something you like. (flavor, potency, growth patterns.)

5.) Under 2000W with say 16-20 females, what 'average' dry harvest that I should I be shooting for, in ounces?

With not being able to control environmental factors to your likings it's hard to predict. I see you are going from dixie to 2 galls. Some will finish in 2 gallon here and pull 8-10 oz's.

so 8-10 in 5 gal...I'm thinking these are going to be huge...20 females in 5 gals can fill up a lot of space.

Say you are covering a 5 x 5 with 1000 Watts
Can you fit 10 girls under there?

None the less 2000 watts should get you 600-2500 grams. 0.3GPW to 1.25 GPW- 21oz to 89oz.

I still have yet to invest in some important items, such as carbon filter, some new fans as well as seeds, so I'm trying to get a grasp on how to start so when the time comes, I can hit the ground running.

Check out all the strains and info here

http://en. seed finder. eu/database/breeder/


Thanks to anyone who helps!!

Hope that helps. Welcome back

 

[stoned40yrs]

"I have to use tap water until I can afford a R/O system. This MAY be a part of the problem, but keep in mind - I had (2) successful grows way back when with a mix of FFOF and Canna Coco with Nirvana beans, using the same tap water. I know this isn't preferred, and I know this may or may not cause problems, but honestly for my first start up in years I want to perfect the method first, make some money, then get an R/O filter to ensure the water itself isn't an issue."

If you use the popular 6/9 GH micro bloom nutes then you have the option of using their regular micro or their hardwater micro. Test the ec of your tap and if it's .4 or above you can use the hardwater version. You may have no need to invest in a ro unit.

 

[The.Cook]

"I have to use tap water until I can afford a R/O system. This MAY be a part of the problem, but keep in mind - I had (2) successful grows way back when with a mix of FFOF and Canna Coco with Nirvana beans, using the same tap water. I know this isn't preferred, and I know this may or may not cause problems, but honestly for my first start up in years I want to perfect the method first, make some money, then get an R/O filter to ensure the water itself isn't an issue."

If you use the popular 6/9 GH micro bloom nutes then you have the option of using their regular micro or their hardwater micro. Test the ec of your tap and if it's .4 or above you can use the hardwater version. You may have no need to invest in a ro unit.

Quote!

I use Dutch Formula from Advanced Hydroponics of Holland, which are a sort of exact copy of the well know GH ferts.

I cut RO water with tap water till 0,3 EC than add nutes. That saves me from adding Calmag s###t

 

[Weeded1s]

Be careful as some tap has chloramine which you cant just evaporate. It might work though.good luck.

P.s. hit up the glacier machines if any are near by you 20 to 30 cents a gallon. Just an option as my tap is terrible.

 

[Benjamin Check]

I'd go with canna and their line of coco specific nutes on drain to waste since you're going coco. I'm an ebb and flow, dwc and soil man myself, but I've seen what coco can do and it's impressive and pretty easy. As far as ph adjustment of the water you don't do that until after you mix in the nutrients and test the PH, somewhere between 5.8-6.2. Many nutrient lineups have been buffered to reach just that range with the proper nute mix, no adjustment necessary. Unless you have jacked up water with chloramine or super hardness most tap water is fine. Get a water report. I use tap water and half the time forget to leave it out 24 hours and never had a problem. In fact, when I was new this board scared the piss out of me by making me think I had to buy an RO filter, but after a conversation with my guru (who laughed until he cried) I realized it was completely unnecessary for my area. $600 not spent. Hooray.

It would be much more helpful if you had some specifics on room dimensions, climate/region and the exact setup because a grow in arizona, georgia, michigan, or California is going to require much different equipment/configuration. You might need a humidifier in the sw, a dehuey in the se, heaters in the north etc. Air exchanges should be once every 10 -15 minutes, any more than that and you risk stressing your plants and making them transpire too much. Air cooling your hoods should always come from an outside source or smell proof air conditioned room, not the hot room with stinky weed because that's a recipe for disaster. I suggest going over to grow room designs and reading the stickies. It's one of the few threads with nothing but good PROFESSIONAL HVAC advice and no arguing over who has the biggest dick.

Strain? Like the man above said, you can't go wrong with Critical anything. I have both critical+ from dinafem and critical kush from Barneys. Both grow giant buds, branch breakers. Critical+ yields more and is certainly potent enough for any smoker. She takes heavy nutes, 1400-1500 ppm with ease, and she likes her calcium and silica. I bet she will take 1800-2000 with co2. Smells amazing, tastes exotic, side branches like a MOFO, flowers super fast, mine is 10% amber and 45-45 clear cloudy in 65 days like clockwork. Critical kush is definitely stronger and much more of a "conisseur strain" but doesn't branch out like critical + and is stubborn to clone without an aero cloner. Critical + roots touch the water on my homemade 36 site cloner in 8 days with ph'd tap water.

How much can you expect to yield? Who knows. That's on you. Do it right a few pounds, wrong and a pound and a half of leafy bullshit barely worth using for butter and certainly not smoking.

 

[stoned40yrs]

Don't go with canna nutes unless you want to shell out 3 times the $$$ for NO GAIN over 6/9 or MB

 

[Snow Crash]

Don't go with canna nutes unless you want to shell out 3 times the $$$ for NO GAIN over 6/9 or MB

That's not true...

CANNA Coco A+B - Free Shipping - $22.95 - 1000ml - $0.02295 per ml
At 7.5ml/gallon (what we tend to recommend) - $0.1721 per gallon
133 gallons possible at this feed strength.

FloraMicro - Add shipping - $9.95 - 946ml - 0.0105 per ml
FloraBloom - Add shipping - $7.95 - 946ml - 0.00840
At 6/9 (Lucas Formula) - $0.1386 per gallon+(shipping$/105)
105 gallons possible at this feed strength (1/3 bottle of Micro left unused).

If I were to add in the shipping costs ($10.36 to me for the GH) that adds $0.09866 to each of the 105 gallons. Which makes the Lucas formula $0.2373 per gallon. And that's how the math ACTUALLY is. The Lucas formula can be 40% more expensive than CANNA. Now ask yourself... Do you want to measure different amounts of 2 products? Do you want to have 1/3 of a bottle left over at the end. Do you want to spend more money to do the same job?

Where the Lucas formula does make it's value is in bloom. Canna needs a little something extra to make it effective for flowering. I like to use Botanicare's Hydroplex 0-10-6. At just 1-2ml per gallon, the quart goes a VERY long way and adds a few pennies to the cost of the solution. Ultimately making each system about the same finished cost to the grower.

1.) Nutes are nutes. Any grower worth their salt can use any one of them. I think Botanicare CNS17 is a great coco nutrient for beginners because it is 1-part bottles for the specific stages of growth with reliable feed strength suggestions but it doesn't have a very strong following on here. Most coco growers use either the Lucas formula, CANNA coco A+B, or House and Garden Cocos A+B.

2.) As other have said, you don't want to water without at least a light nutrient charge in the water. Sometimes I get lazy and just want to keep my plants alive until I have time to really water them. I adjust my pH levels low and allow the coco to buffer the solution and bring it back up. I aim for about 5.4 to 5.6pH in my nutrient solutions using organic Citric acid crystals from Earth Juice. If you're in an emergency and have to get some water on them without nutrients then just don't get any runoff and that will be better than nothing.

3.) You pretty much can't. Environment control like that is expensive and requires basically an enclosed grow space. You can buy a humidifier at any drug store or pharmacy for under $40 but if you're exhausting everything then you just cannot get the RH to stay. Dropping the temperatures from 75-78 to 72-75 will reduce the transpiration stress on the plants and as temp goes down the RH will rise. This would be my suggestion, a cooler intake temperature would probably be more beneficial.

4.) Alien strains (Alien OG, Alien Tech, Alien Abduction, etc) are a little fresh in the scene right now. They are afghani plants with a strong indica lean and a nice kushy/hashy taste. Decent yields and good bag appeal. I ran Alien Abduction from OG Seeds (Ocean Grown Genetics) about two years ago with good results but you'll want to single out a good mother as there is a good amount of variation in the F1.

5.) 1200g would be a good goal, about 3 ounces per plant. I would want more (who wouldn't) but without environment control, a strain, or much experience... That's realistic.

 

[stoned40yrs]

That's not true...

CANNA Coco A+B - Free Shipping - $22.95 - 1000ml - $0.02295 per ml
At 7.5ml/gallon (what we tend to recommend) - $0.1721 per gallon
133 gallons possible at this feed strength.

FloraMicro - Add shipping - $9.95 - 946ml - 0.0105 per ml
FloraBloom - Add shipping - $7.95 - 946ml - 0.00840
At 6/9 (Lucas Formula) - $0.1386 per gallon+(shipping$/105)
105 gallons possible at this feed strength (1/3 bottle of Micro left unused).

If I were to add in the shipping costs ($10.36 to me for the GH) that adds $0.09866 to each of the 105 gallons. Which makes the Lucas formula $0.2373 per gallon. And that's how the math ACTUALLY is. The Lucas formula can be 40% more expensive than CANNA. Now ask yourself... Do you want to measure different amounts of 2 products? Do you want to have 1/3 of a bottle left over at the end. Do you want to spend more money to do the same job?

Where the Lucas formula does make it's value is in bloom. Canna needs a little something extra to make it effective for flowering. I like to use Botanicare's Hydroplex 0-10-6. At just 1-2ml per gallon, the quart goes a VERY long way and adds a few pennies to the cost of the solution. Ultimately making each system about the same finished cost to the grower.

1.) Nutes are nutes. Any grower worth their salt can use any one of them. I think Botanicare CNS17 is a great coco nutrient for beginners because it is 1-part bottles for the specific stages of growth with reliable feed strength suggestions but it doesn't have a very strong following on here. Most coco growers use either the Lucas formula, CANNA coco A+B, or House and Garden Cocos A+B.

2.) As other have said, you don't want to water without at least a light nutrient charge in the water. Sometimes I get lazy and just want to keep my plants alive until I have time to really water them. I adjust my pH levels low and allow the coco to buffer the solution and bring it back up. I aim for about 5.4 to 5.6pH in my nutrient solutions using organic Citric acid crystals from Earth Juice. If you're in an emergency and have to get some water on them without nutrients then just don't get any runoff and that will be better than nothing.

3.) You pretty much can't. Environment control like that is expensive and requires basically an enclosed grow space. You can buy a humidifier at any drug store or pharmacy for under $40 but if you're exhausting everything then you just cannot get the RH to stay. Dropping the temperatures from 75-78 to 72-75 will reduce the transpiration stress on the plants and as temp goes down the RH will rise. This would be my suggestion, a cooler intake temperature would probably be more beneficial.

4.) Alien strains (Alien OG, Alien Tech, Alien Abduction, etc) are a little fresh in the scene right now. They are afghani plants with a strong indica lean and a nice kushy/hashy taste. Decent yields and good bag appeal. I ran Alien Abduction from OG Seeds (Ocean Grown Genetics) about two years ago with good results but you'll want to single out a good mother as there is a good amount of variation in the F1.

5.) 1200g would be a good goal, about 3 ounces per plant. I would want more (who wouldn't) but without environment control, a strain, or much experience... That's realistic.

Ya right Who buys GH in quarts and pays shipping. You also found a place that ships canna free. The same canna company that will convince you that you need all there other expensive crap. No way I can go to the hydro store and buy canna and it will come out even CLOSE to GH micro and bloom. Why don't you run your numbers against a 2.2lb $15 bag of GH MB?

 

[Weeded1s]

Og genetics r the homies. Thanks nuggs and vador.
Unfortunatley I let the aa 20 and another aa go as I want to see this alien empress do its thing..plus I can always get those cuts back if need be.
Peace

 

[Snow Crash]

Og genetics r the homies. Thanks nuggs and vador.
Unfortunatley I let the aa 20 and another aa go as I want to see this alien empress do its thing..plus I can always get those cuts back if need be.
Peace

Hell yeah they are! Nuggs is such a cool guy and Vader knows his shit through and through. Their forum is too quiet!
I have a couple F2 seeds from my run with the AA. I'll crack them some day...

The "Early Heri" is of particular interest to me from that run too. It was a solid 50 day indica with rock hard nugs, but needed a little something more in the flavor department. I crossed it with my AA pollen and have maybe 50-60 seeds around of that F1.

 

[Weeded1s]

The later heri was more sativa and not what I was looking for when I ran it so out it went as well. Nuggs s club has some issues right now but hell make it as hes been doing this for a hot minute. Stay safe homies.

 

[Granger2]

Your description of the problems you started having sounds exactly like Root Aphids. The first time I ever saw an RA was in a pot of Ocean Forest Happy Frog Potting Soil. Use the potato slice test to diagnose, and OGBioWar as a preventive, and FULL STRENGTH for an infestation. Order some OGBW to have on hand and treat as a preventive. Don't wait will you see RA's to order. Do not let them get out of hand. Test with 1" thick potato slices weekly, since they may still be in your room. Lay slices on medium surface and check under side daily with large low power magnifying glass.

I wouldn't worry about your water since you had successful crops at first. Good luck. -granger

 

[RSA]

Thanks for all the info guys! Will take me awhile to go through the recommendations. My first goal will be to acquire seeds then equipment then stuff like the coco, nutrients, etc.

When I get more time, I'll post more questions I'm sure... But for now, I typically used seed boutique and never had an issue, but they don't seem to have barney's line. Is there any particular place to get these at (critical kush)? Pm me as to avoid any conflict with forum rules.

 

[RSA]

OK guys, I had a chance to review the responses and they lead to more questions:

@stoned40yrs, you recommend 2 gallon smart pots. in your experience, what yield difference would there be from 2 gal's to 5 gal's? obv there will be less plants, but if the yield difference is negligible or better with 2 gal's, i may just go that way.

i tried maxibloom KISS method with my last grow (keep in mind, i do not know why they did so bad - poor medium, environmental issues, bugs, etc) - but one thing i noticed was it was a major PITA to pH the water with maxibloom. that shit dropped the pH super fast even with half strength.

1.) What is the best and most affordable ec meter i can buy? (amazon or ebay)

I'll probably go with straight Canna everything - coco and their line of nutes - it seems like it has a good following on here with the only downside being price.

2.) I would start seedlings in dixie cups, once established move to 2 gallons, then move on up to 5 gallons to finish once sexed. Plastic pots, but I am moving to smart pots. That being said, grow space is a Growlab model GL145L: 9'6" x 4'9" x 6'7"

Within that space, I veg under 2 x 400W CMH's, then flower under 2 1000W HPS's. If i go 2 gallons, how many females should I shoot for having under each light? What about 5 gal's?

 

[brandonwalsh420]

as far as pens and meters go, I been real happy with bluelab, had an ecotester tri-meter and hated it... my bluelab ph pen works great and is really simple to use/calibrate... as for ec pens probly doesn't matter too much, you generally get what you pay for, "buy cheap and you buy twice"