Vertical with leds

[Mr Blah]

Ive got two rooms on a flip flop and want to change to leds but do not know which ones to get.

Each of my rooms are 8'x8' about.
4 totes, DIY Undercurrent systems.
5 bulbs (all 600's) ; one in the center the others in the corners. Diamond set up.

Another veg room with 3-600's in a row over 18 5 gal buckets RDWC system.


Can any led light be hung vertical?
Which ones would you recommend to at least duplicate results?
Do I match watt to watt when I am buying?

CMP is going up in the North East and almost doubling by March of 2015....Got to do something.

Any help before I dive head first researching in the matter is greatly appreciated.

 

[mr. gt]

I saw a custom made 4 sided led panel before. Basically it was a long rectangle with led's on the 4 sides. I am by no means a led guy though...

 

[PetFlora]

Ive got two rooms on a flip flop and want to change to leds but do not know which ones to get.

Each of my rooms are 8'x8' about.
4 totes, DIY Undercurrent systems.
5 bulbs (all 600's) ; one in the center the others in the corners. Diamond set up.

Another veg room with 3-600's in a row over 18 5 gal buckets RDWC system.


Can any led light be hung vertical?
Which ones would you recommend to at least duplicate results?
Do I match watt to watt when I am buying?

CMP is going up in the North East and almost doubling by March of 2015....Got to do something.

Any help before I dive head first researching in the matter is greatly appreciated.

Drop by my thread to see what I use

 

[Mr Blah]

Cool! thanks petflora, which one though?

 

[Mr Blah]

Just checked out the BML website and I think these might do the trick of vertical. But still researching.

4-36" bars should take care of the corners set at 90 degrees for the beams.
The center, I guess would have to be a cluster of 4 bars 36" back to each other for the 360degrees I need.
That's 8 bars pr room!!!Holy shit about $2400 Any other configuration I am not seeing or....?Is this how it's going to be?

 

[mr. gt]

Hey man.


Before you buy, I hope you do more research and chat with us here for a bit. I am an impulse buyer myself, and always end up learning the hard way. Put it off for a week or so before you purchase. $2500 in bulbs.....jeez




A couple questions..


1) How come you want to go LED?

- My thoughts are possibly 4 of them back to back may be as hot as a 600 or 1000 watter. (maybe someone who has more experience can chime in?)




2) Whats your setup going to be?(Please be specific on room size, whether you have a/c, sealed room or not, height of plants you want to grow, ect. ect.)

- I know a lot of people bash people on here for cool tubes, but possibly in your specific situation( vs. led setup), it may make more sense than 4 or 5 led strips, which in my opinion are more speculation than long term proof. People are claiming 10+ years of life, but only have 3 year warranty's. Also if a company goes out of business, your warranty is useless.






Something you may want to consider. A couple of these vert guys are going 'coliseum style' aka having more than 1 'tier' of growing. Your 36" led strip limits that to about 1 tier, whereas you would be able to add another tier of plants through adding a second hps bulb inline, one on top of each other. (growing vertically)




Post pics if you can!! Be sure to use a program like Jstrip first! I'll be checking this thread to try and help you the best I can.





Ps: being a member since 2010 with low post count like me.. I hope you've done lots of lurking and research in this time



ps#2: you may want to post this in the vert section. You will get more reply's. Just copy and paste it.




~mr. gt

 

[PetFlora]

I finally got to veg under the SPYDR but since there is no control over the reds it causes too much stretch, but otherwise is doing a fine job

I am also testing Amare Technologies panels, which not only provide separate o/o for the reds, but have piggy back electric connectors, which allows for multiple panels off a single power plug

Amare is also developing bars which he says will blows the doors off the SPYDR. I may have a prototype in 4-5 weeks

You see how the SPYDR is doing in my thread "The Led Company I've Been Waiting For, or Multi-Spectrum...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6573167#post6573167

 

[PetFlora]

Just checked out the BML website and I think these might do the trick of vertical. But still researching.

4-36" bars should take care of the corners set at 90 degrees for the beams.
The center, I guess would have to be a cluster of 4 bars 36" back to each other for the 360degrees I need.
That's 8 bars pr room!!!Holy shit about $2400 Any other configuration I am not seeing or....?Is this how it's going to be?

I also have 2 @ 36" BML bars, where I picked the spectrums- BML has a page for that http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/

The bars are very light weight, attached to the PS via a long cord, so PS can be outside the tent

I'll be posting pics of them along with the SPYDR over my Blueberry Cheesecake reveg this morning

 

[Mr Blah]

I read the whole thread Petflora and visited BML's website. I dropped them an email and am waiting for response.

Mr. gt; The main reason for LED's is the power usage.
Stage 1. Changing to LED vs HPS (Total all rooms 2-1000, 15-600's) will reduce my power consumption hopefully in half.

Than
stage 2. Put up 300watt solar panels (about 80) to offset electricity costs.

The flip Flop rooms are exactly 7'3"Wx 9'Lx 6'6"T Each have a 12" exhaust fan (no scrubber). Under current,DIY with 27 gal totes 3" pipes. day of flip all 4 are at least tits high.
P=0
L=X

X0X
0X0
X0X

I do have a room 4'Lx10'Wx7'H that I veg in for up to 8 weeks. 3-600watt (in hoods not vertical) in a row down the middle over 18 5 gal buckets.

OOOOOOOOO
.....X X X
OOOOOOOOO

One more room for flower that is 7'Wx9'Lx10'H with 2-1000's vertical (passive cooling) and 2 600's overhanging.

O X O
Ox xO
O X O

 

[Mr Blah]

So doing more research on leds with BML. I am wondering if 1 light bar in each corner is going to give me the same effect as a hung 600hps in the corner?

 

[indianajones]

i've been thinking that the 315w agro bulbs hung vertically with bridgelux vero 29
hung directly over the plant would probably be the bee's knees. can't wait to be
able to grow again lol...

same basic vert shape, but with a cob over each plant. run the vero 29s @ 80-85w.
X0X
0X0
X0X

 

[zerocool21]

ill throw ya some ideas that i think would work best for ya. for leds it tends to be much more manageable doing it in a even canopy, might have to learn how to prune for this if you havent done it, but a 12" canopy will do you solid.

ive used lumigrows an have been more than pleased with them, they have been slightly higher par # than blackdog an kindled that i have tested but all of them have done fine on the end results. i wouldnt buy another led without potentiometers though and the white switch for working/viewing is super helpful. also had great results with cmh315w and rocket plasma's230w havent flowered with the cmh or rocket though yet. hopefully the plasma will be tested shortly.

if you really want to cut down get a light mover its just logical. i helped someone change 2 8bulb t5's an replace it with a 315cmh on a mover an has done great @ 550w less just something to think about. it would have to be a hair closer to the plants to make up for the time its moved away from them but not an issue when done right.

you should also get a 5w over a 3w when possible.

as to your ? of watt to watt that depends on the light not all leds are built the same, ballpark figure 60-70% of wattage is what id be looking at. you still should take everything anyone recommends an research it on ur own. using a par meter will also help you dial everything in when setting lights up, or trial an error.

they will cost you up front but you pay for it saving on cooling,consumption,bulb replacement. if there out of your price range atm why not try putting movers on your current setup an use the savings to get one when u have enough.

 

[mr. gt]

Hey zerocool.I think you may be mistaken. I believe hes growing vertically currently, if not that's the method of growing he's asking about.



Your response brought more questions :x haha. How come soo many lights? Is there a certain plant count limit or something? Last time I saw a room like that (that was memorable) was Heath Robinson's tree grow. But he got like 23 lbs off of 1 plant. (may have been 5 plants)




Why not try to grow in circles to cut your electricity down. Like have 1 light in the middle and have plants growing around the 1 light. Preferably with screens.


Have you spent time in the vertical growing section?

top view:

this is Heath's grow:

before

after (top of the grow)

if you wanted to run a couple circles, if you really wanted to you could put a light inbetween the circles like so:


ooo oooo
oxo x o x o
ooo oooo


I think that method would really cut down on your electric.


~mr. gt

 

[zerocool21]

im not mistaken hes asking the best way to duplicate his current results. there are currently very very few leds that are designed for vert, i only have seen 1 so far. this may change in time but its not a diverse area to pick from atm. the market is 99% for overhead lighting.

the point is without having a 360deg led output your going to need to have a very difficult time trying to get whats on the market now to work, if you use whats on the market with 180-90deg output your going to need more fixtures to do the same sqft on a light mover.

if u stay with the layout that you posted you will need at least 6, 3 back to back to cover that 360 and it will not be a uniform spread. now if u calculate the sqft of that layout vs a even canopy w a light mover they will be very very close, same with the yield if the same par is over that sqft.

if u have some pictures of your leds going vert like that hid it would be more helpful for o.p. to see how its done with a non 360deg light output. i havent seen a led vert grow so far have you?

so i think its easy to see that if he cant find a led to grow in the vert style he wants this is likely going to be the next best thing for the results he wants (max sqft per light)

look at the sqft of a vert like your pick then compare it to a light on a mover its almost the exact same, so if there isnt a easy solution to his problem wouldnt it be a logical answer to using a light mover while keeping the wattage down.

if u can link any leds for vert and vert grows using leds that would likely help o.p. layout his room but i just dont see them out there. gotta wonder why sometimes. .

im just giving options then op can decide hope it helps ya kinda see what im saying.

 

[mr. gt]

you make valid points.


I'm not a led user myself and when I get to get my grow up once again, I am going to go hps personally. I think most commercial growers don't go that route due to lack of info and proof. otherwise they would be all growing with led since they've been on market for quite some time.


The pictures I posted were to prove that he could save a ton on electricity if he were to grow vertical in 'crop circles'. Light movers would work as well, but he couldn't grow vertically. Hence the reason I thought you may have been mistaken.


~mr. gt

 

[bombadil.360]

vertical with led and doing a medium sized grow is gonna cost you tons of money as well as tons of research before making the decision about which led to buy.

imo, led right now is only for small grows, no more than 4 feet x 4 feet imo; unless you have the money and do not care to spend it to experiment with bigger areas.

I'd look into area-51 and lush lighting if I were to buy a led for a small indoor grow.

I have a friend that got a panel from growevolution led, and although the price was Ok, we are unsure about the quality of the lights... they veg kind of slowly and put off tons of heat in our experience; he installed over-kill ventilation to deal with the heat, and I wonder if a cool-tube would have been a better and much cheaper option.

he's on his second round so time will tell about these led.

good luck, peace!

 

[Mr Blah]

Thanks for all the insight.
The fact is; There is not a lot of vertical led grows out there like you mentioned.
More research is needed.
I am going to start looking into solar panels/light tracking for saving money alternatives at this time.

 

[EvilCartman]

Light movers would work as well, but he couldn't grow vertically.

Many folks operate movers to bounce their bulbs vertically. I think it would be the way to go, with LED. It's easy to over-saturate with LED, moving them would seem to be a win/win. Spreading those photons around, while increasing penetration, too.

 

[Mr Blah]

Please explain what you mean using leds on light movers in a vertical garden.

 

[EvilCartman]

Please explain what you mean using leds on light movers in a vertical garden.

Was merely pointing out that a light mover isn't restricted to horizontal movement. As long as the weight of whatever you want to move is countered, vertical movement is quite a simple modification.

Good LEDs put out enough PAR for there to be some benefit in moving them. I see some great results from some grows, and feel a mover could bump things up, a little more. Just my thoughts, I use HID.